Towing: Gas vs diesel debate, 1500 & 3500

[0rion]

I've owned a diesel since 2010. We have a 10k pound fiver we haul around during the summer through PA, WV, and VA hills. I'm in the category where I have to have the diesel. If I wasn't in that category though I wouldn't own one. Everything about them is expensive. They're not nearly as dependable as people make them out to be either so at some point you're probably going to have to dump serious money into them. There's definitely times I wish we would've gotten a smaller camper so I could have a half ton. When hauling that much weight on a long grade though I wouldn't trade my diesel for anything.

 

[Wheezer]

I've owned a diesel since 2010. We have a 10k pound fiver we haul around during the summer through PA, WV, and VA hills. I'm in the category where I have to have the diesel. If I wasn't in that category though I wouldn't own one. Everything about them is expensive. They're not nearly as dependable as people make them out to be either so at some point you're probably going to have to dump serious money into them. There's definitely times I wish we would've gotten a smaller camper so I could have a half ton. When hauling that much weight on a long grade though I wouldn't trade my diesel for anything.

Thanks for your insight, it all helps me!

 

[Snyd]

One other thing... I'm not sure if Chrysler still offers it or not but with a non-diesel truck you can buy a lifetime unlimited miles maxcare warranty. For me that was huge. $2300 for my lifetime Maxcare. I bought my truck to keep it. It's 3 years old now, a 2016, 25000 miles, half of which were in one 2 month roadtrip. We don't drive many miles a year so we don't trade every few years. It's nice to know that 10 years from now I'll still have a bumper to bumper warranty with a $200 deductible.

 

[mtnrider]

Thanks for your insight, it all helps me!

And I have had diesels since the mid 2000's and have had no real issues with them. The new ones are even more reliable. I find them no more expensive to operate then a HD gas truck. It's really a wash in the end. Not that there are not problem trucks here and there in both fuel types but my experience has been very positive with the diesel. I'd never own another HD gas truck again, only a 1/2 ton in gas


.

 

[Snyd]

Sheesh! so what does that say about mid-size trucks lol!? I guess they're just sedans that look like trucks lol!

Yup, pretty much! 4 dr half ton (or less) trucks are primarily people haulers, nothing wrong with it. It just means they can't haul as much cargo/trailer tongue weight.

Back when I was in the car business the only 4dr trucks were 1 ton long beds. That changed here in the US in the 90's. We had "Supercabs", "Extended Cabs", etc. half tons. Toyota had 4 dr trucks (the HiLux) overseas before that. The big three realized there was a market for a "car with a bed on the back" so here we are. Lots of great choices out there now. A guy just needs to buy the right truck for the job and a half ton 4dr might not be it!

 

[gofishn]

One other thing... I'm not sure if Chrysler still offers it or not but with a non-diesel truck you can buy a lifetime unlimited miles maxcare warranty. For me that was huge. $2300 for my lifetime Maxcare. I bought my truck to keep it. It's 3 years old now, a 2016, 25000 miles, half of which were in one 2 month roadtrip. We don't drive many miles a year so we don't trade every few years. It's nice to know that 10 years from now I'll still have a bumper to bumper warranty with a $200 deductible.

stopped offering the lifetime warranty, end of last year.

 

[meedom]

The key is buying the truck set up right for what you need. A half ton truck is still a large almost 3 ton vehicle with 2 people sitting in it, is actually closer to a three quarter ton truck these days, and is capable of towing around 10,000 pounds with the right gearing and engine in it. If you're going to tow that 10,000 pounds routinely or anything over that then it's time for an HD.....

 

[GsRAM]

The key is buying the truck set up right for what you need. A half ton truck is still a large almost 3 ton vehicle with 2 people sitting in it, is actually closer to a three quarter ton truck these days, and is capable of towing around 10,000 pounds with the right gearing and engine in it. If you're going to tow that 10,000 pounds routinely or anything over that then it's time for an HD.....

How so? 10k loaded weight at 15% tongue weight which is what I prefer for good sway resistance is 1,500 lbs. Not including the weight of the wdh itself, passengers, gear in the bed of the truck, etc...

Most half tons have a max payload of right around 1500 lbs,,some a little more, some less. So how do you put a 10klb tt behind a half ton and not be way over payload rating (and probably more importantly grawr also)?

I'm all for half ton towing heavy and have done it successfully...but there are limits to what can safely be done and 10k and up is 3/4 ton truck territory. A half will move the weight no problem but lacks the weight/mass, brakes and suspension to control it, especially on a windy day or in emergency situations.

Just my opinion...fwiw.

 

[VernDiesel]

Tow ratings on 1/2 tons apply well to everything but Travel trailer/Toy haulers. If you are towing a 9k & up wet TT you would be better served by a HD even if you don’t tow it big miles or regularly. Even if you don’t tow fast there is wind gusts, rain slick roads, semi trucks bow wave push & pull, and mountain grades. Can you afford to jeopardize your family’s safety even one time.

Tow rig stability/safety is a lot in WDH/set up IE weight distribution between steer & drive axles and tongue weight. When using scales as anyone should when approaching a trucks rated limits you find much above 8k no matter what Mfgr’s best 1/2 ton that that you are usually exceeding gvwr or worse drive axle ratings even sometimes receiver and or gross combined vehicle weight ratings. (excluding special order ford n GM HD 1/2 tons)

So OP with a 10k wet trailer should be looking at HDs. A 6.4 would be the most appropriate choice for OP but get one with the 8 speed & 4.10s. Better towing, mileage, acceleration, hands down a better setup than the 6 speed 4.10 let alone 3.73. To an 8k wet TT I’m in for a well set up 1/2 ton at 9k I’m getting a HD.

 

[Josh Zimmerman]

I too towed a ~ 37 foot, 9k travel trailer with the 2017 RAM 1500. Truck had 3.92 gears, weight distribution hitch, balanced properly, etc, and it pulled it no problem, up to about 55-60 mph. But around 50-60 mph, cross winds became an issue. I've lived in a number of places but Delaware is like a huge wind tunnel - it was a bit frightening, the trailer driving the truck. That and the max payload of a ram 1500 is pretty poor, around 1600 lbs, depending on your model, so you'll often max your payload before you hit max tow weight. I upgraded the springs & put helper bags just to avoid the nose riding high. That 1600 lbs doesn't include your weight, crap in the bed of the truck, etc. so your real payload with 2 passengers and a dog is even less. All that said, loved the truck, but upgraded for peace of mind.

Bought a lightly used 2500 diesel and love it. Does it drive the same way my gasser did - no way - 1500 would snap your head back & smoke the tires - not going to get that experience with the (stock) 2500, but it is like a freight train - once in motion.... just goes, pretty much regardless of what's behind it - just a bit more clatter, LOL!

 

[Khari Ford]

I tow a 12,500 5th Wheel with the 3500 6.4L SRW and have no issues at all. I would love to have the diesel but the expense was just a bit too much (maybe in a few years). The truck likes to make noise when its pulling but it has no issues keeping 65mph uphill. On my last 125 mile trip I averaged 9mpg - can't complain too much about that! I do wish the tank was more than 32 gallons though.

35 feet behind a 1500 is doable but it can get dicey on a windy day or when a friendly 18 wheeler blows by you! I did it with a pull behind and a Chevy 1500 - it just wasn't relaxing to go camping!

I completely agree. 8-11 is the range I hover in towing, and have no problem with it dropping a gear to blaze up the rpms.

The fuel tank is really my only gripe. I’ve been looking into options for a larger tank, but there aren’t much.

I switched to the goose, so no more issues with wind or TTs for us

 

[Willie Mosher]

I think it best use 2500 or 3500,
If you live west cost and tow lot (6000 miles a year) best get diesel,
But diesel gone cost you about $20g
To buy and care for,
But less then 6000 miles years ,
Mid west ~ east cost
2500 w 6.4 gas Best truck,
My 2 cents Willie,

 

[Dusty]

Yes, I know....probably been asked a 1000 times...

Yes, I know... a diesel tows better...


What I'm debating is the true efficiency now between models. I haven't had a diesel in 10 years and really debating it because of all the new emissions stuff.

I have a 35' bumper pull travel trailer. The Ford F150 with the 3.5 eco-boost pulled it fine. Rear end lowered but it did it...I wasn't happy with it. The Ram 2500 with 6.4 of course didn't break a sweat. Mileage sucked but it's a truck, it did what it was made for.

I've been debating going back to a new 19 Ram CC with the 5.7 torque boost whatever on the engine. Specs show it bumps the towing up to 12,500 or something like that. Also looking at a 1-ton MC with the 6.7. Both would be 4wd Laramie models.

The TT empty is 8350 lbs...so lets say 10,500 loaded with 2 adults, 1 kid, the dog and associated crap. We don't do a lot of going...here and there with the camper so it wouldn't be a constant or all the time thing.

It appears on paper that the Hemi would do it and I know the Cummins wouldn't give a damn. In reality, you people that tow more, what would be your expectations on the Hemi with this TT and weight?

I know the Cummins would do it, have more torque and etc...but as I said, in these days of all the new federal crap, is a diesel worth it anymore? I was pre-fed junk and diesels were amazing...still are IF you use them like they are meant. I don't prefer to stay with a hemi on a 2500/3500 scale, but it's a back burner thought.

Thanks all and sorry to rehash anything. I have done quite a bit of searching on here and found some answer to my questions, I'm just really debating if anyone has some real world experience yet with the new 1500 hemis.

Have a great one!!

The decision is pretty much based on what your goal is.

If staying away from the diesel connected maintenance and upkeep is the goal, then you've already answered your question. I have a son and good friend in the tree, landscape, plowing business. My son has shied away from diesels, and the friend went from diesel to a 6.4 3/4 ton gasser. The opinion is that the newer diesels do not render the fuel mileage of the pre-DEF versions.

As an aside, I'm in the market for a new tractor. Anything over 25 HP is now tier 4 and uses DEF. I have not found one person yet that is happy with their tier 4.

I had a 9600 pound towing requirement up until recently, and my 2014 Ram 1500, 5.7 Hemi, 8-speed with the 3.92 axle did very well and was within the 10,450 Lb. rating. Keeping at the posted speed limits it would result in a 13-15 MPG (and yes, that was with some hills). Based on a towing-to-normal driving ratio of 1500 miles towing, to 91,000 miles of normal driving, it was a pure financial decision. The benefit of saving $10,000 and a truck that I could drive the rest of the week with a comfortable 18-20 MPG was a no brainer.

There is no doubt that a Cummins Turbo Diesel will out tow most gassers, and based on your towing requirements may be the better way to go. Their are a number of factors to consider as each person will have different requirements. At some point, regardless of your goals, a diesel will be the only option depending on the weight of your tow.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Now at: 013518 miles.

 

[marks146]

Yes, I know....probably been asked a 1000 times...

Yes, I know... a diesel tows better...



I've been debating going back to a new 19 Ram CC with the 5.7 torque boost whatever on the engine. Specs show it bumps the towing up to 12,500 or something like that. Also looking at a 1-ton MC with the 6.7. Both would be 4wd Laramie models.

The TT empty is 8350 lbs...so lets say 10,500 loaded with 2 adults, 1 kid, the dog and associated crap. We don't do a lot of going...here and there with the camper so it wouldn't be a constant or all the time thing.

It appears on paper that the Hemi would do it and I know the Cummins wouldn't give a damn. In reality, you people that tow more, what would be your expectations on the Hemi with this TT and weight?


Have a great one!!

Forget the half ton. After buying a brand new half ton, trying to pull an 8500 pound travel trailer made me switch it for a used 2500 gas after 2 months of ownership. The half ton just doesn't have the suspension to feel secure with that kind of weight behind it. It feels like the trailer is pushing the truck, rather than the truck pulling the trailer. I did not feel safe with my family riding along given the situation.

If you have the ability invest in the factory air suspension. It works flawlessly, keeping your headlights pointed down and the truck level. I tow 4 or 5 times a year so a gas made more sense to me. I did get the 6.5 gas so yes mpg is poor, but I knew that going into the purchase.

 

[odinjunior]

I tow a 12,500 5th Wheel with the 3500 6.4L SRW and have no issues at all. I would love to have the diesel but the expense was just a bit too much (maybe in a few years). The truck likes to make noise when its pulling but it has no issues keeping 65mph uphill. On my last 125 mile trip I averaged 9mpg - can't complain too much about that! I do wish the tank was more than 32 gallons though.

35 feet behind a 1500 is doable but it can get dicey on a windy day or when a friendly 18 wheeler blows by you! I did it with a pull behind and a Chevy 1500 - it just wasn't relaxing to go camping!

What octane do you run? My 6.4 calls for 89 but I saw no difference between 87 or 89.

 

[CMV157]

I would go 2019 2500 with the 6.4 mainly due to the 8 speed zf transmission. Highly recommend a 3/4 ton truck for that sort of weight. Cummins is nice but you're not wrong with all the emission equipment that can go wrong especially if you're in the north.

I second Gero. 6.4 2500 with 8 speed for your uses. Heavy duty truck and better street/daily driver manors than a diesel. The only drawback is fuel mileage but with any scenario you're gonna have to give on something... This is what I have and I miss my diesel on some pulls but not enough to change my decision. Definitely don't miss the half ton chassis/brakes and a good bit of weight behind me.

 

[CMV157]

What octane do you run? My 6.4 calls for 89 but I saw no difference between 87 or 89.

I run 87 in mine all the time except summer temps and towing heavy. Then I'll use premium. Can't say right or wrong, but that is working well for me.

 

[Kylehobie16]

A 3/4 ton truck is made for hauling and towing. Diesel makes it even better both by torque, and efficiency. Will a 1/2 ton truck tow a 35', 10,000+ pound trailer, sure it will. But a 1/2 ton truck is like an adjustable wrench. It will do a lot of things, but they don't tow and haul nearly as well as a truck that was made for towing and hauling. Let's face it, if you buy a 3/4 ton gasser, you'll spend 10K less than you would for the diesel version of the same truck, so it's hard to argue this from an overall expense perspective. Also, diesel service cost's a premium as well. If you tow and haul a lot, especially at interstate speeds, get a 3/4 ton or heavier diesel (gasser would probably be great too) pickup. If you do it on short haul (100-mile rt), weekend trips 3 or 4 times a year, you can probably save some money and get away with a late model 1/2 ton truck. That being said, someone on this post said something about being nervous while pulling their camper and I've been there. It sucks to be nervous while towing and a 3/4 ton truck is the cure for that.

 

[dRAMbuie]

Sorry to hijack your post, but I don’t know how to make my own!, but I have 2016 CC 2500 6.4 4x4 and tow 7000 lb TT, I am looking into trading to 2019 6.4 8 speed and was wondering if I should expect a noticeable improvement uphill?, I get slapped down to 45 mph while at 3000rpm in northern New England. Also how much difference do 4.10 make over 3.73? I get 9-10 towing and 19-20mpg around town

I have a 2014 CC 1500 5.7L 4x4 with the 8spd tranny and 3.92 gears, and I also tow a 7000lb TT.
Even towing in the Rockies I only slow down to any great extent on the steepest hills. Typically it takes little effort to stay above 90km/h (55mph) on most terrain.
Though if memory serves, at 100km/h (62mph) I'm at about 2200rpm on flat ground. Based on that, I could hit 3000rpm without much effort at all.
So I'd say that's a low benchmark.

My fuel mileage with the trailer hooked up is very similar to yours. Without the trailer I'm realistically closer to 16-17mpg around town (hand calculated). I may have a heavier foot than you though.

From what you wrote I'd have to believe that the 4.10 and 8spd would make a significant difference over the towing performance you're getting now.

*side note* Not sure if it really makes any difference, but I do tend to use premium fuel when I'm towing.

Back to the original post, I agree with what many have said here already.
10k lbs is pushing the limits on a 1/2 ton. Regardless of what the rated tow capacity is.
I would definitely go with a 3/4 ton.
If you're in a mountainous area, I'd recommend the diesel. Otherwise the gasser would be just fine for occasional towing.
Another consideration is the climate where you live. Diesels can be a pain in the ass in extreme cold.

 

[Floyd1979]

Yes, I know....probably been asked a 1000 times...

Yes, I know... a diesel tows better...


What I'm debating is the true efficiency now between models. I haven't had a diesel in 10 years and really debating it because of all the new emissions stuff.

I have a 35' bumper pull travel trailer. The Ford F150 with the 3.5 eco-boost pulled it fine. Rear end lowered but it did it...I wasn't happy with it. The Ram 2500 with 6.4 of course didn't break a sweat. Mileage sucked but it's a truck, it did what it was made for.

I've been debating going back to a new 19 Ram CC with the 5.7 torque boost whatever on the engine. Specs show it bumps the towing up to 12,500 or something like that. Also looking at a 1-ton MC with the 6.7. Both would be 4wd Laramie models.

The TT empty is 8350 lbs...so lets say 10,500 loaded with 2 adults, 1 kid, the dog and associated crap. We don't do a lot of going..

I pull almost same weight and length .
2015 Ecodiesel Longhorn 4 wd
Air suspension, Rambox
I get on flat, no windy day 11-14 mpg .
Pulling is ok , stopping is another story .
We will look into 2500 longhorn with Cummins
My 2009 hemi 1500, crewcab Rambox pulled it to 6-8 mpg on a good day