Transmission service 2017 Laramie, North East

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Different Drummer

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I have searched and read just about everything on the forum in regards to servicing the 8 speed transmission. At about 32,000 miles I began looking into a routine service. ( truck is now at 40,000 miles) I know, I know, why so early?
Well, it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I have always believed in an initial break in service and just cannot change at my stage in life. Bad enough that I have allowed my oil change intervals to double from 2,000 miles to 4,000 miles! LOL
Due to several factors I will not be doing this myself. Proper environment, weather and me getting into that part of life where the only thing I crawl under the vehicle for is a simple oil change or Diff. fluid change are some but not all factors that contribute to the decision.
The dealer I bought the truck from keeps telling me it is not necessary. They are very small and frankly I think they are intimidated by the procedure. Another local dealer wants to do a BG flush. Another dealer wants near $1,000.00 for the service. And I am not sure I would trust them at one half that price. I have also been told that it is a lifetime fill. There is only one independent transmission shop near me that I MAY have any confidence in. They will do it but warn me ahead of time about the expense. Not giving me a quote but saying it will be very expensive. Also, I am not sure they will pay close attention to all the particulars like having the transmission perfectly level, fluid temps and proper sequencing during the procedure.
I realize that it will not be cheap but I do want to get what I pay for when it is done.

Hang in there folks I know this is long!

So I am looking for suggestions from people who are somewhat near me for a place to do the service. A place that you are confident will do the procedure correctly. Maybe a place you have experience with.
Or, perhaps another wrenching member that has appropriate facilities and has previously done the procedure that would assist me in doing it. I am willing to drive a considerable distance to get it done correctly. I would imagine that because of the cool transmission Temp requirement that I would need to find a motel to overnight.
If anyone has any experience with a shop that will do it correctly I sure would appreciate it if you could pass their information on to me.

Also, opinions on whether or not it is worth buying the replacement pan with the drain plug that allows the filter to be replaced. I think it has increased capacity as well.
I live in Upstate NY about 45 Minutes north of Albany.
Thank you in advance,
DD
 
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Wild one

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I have searched and read just about everything on the forum in regards to servicing the 8 speed transmission. At about 32,000 miles I began looking into a routine service. ( truck is now at 40,000 miles) I know, I know, why so early?
Well, it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I have always believed in an initial break in service and just cannot change at my stage in life. Bad enough that I have allowed my oil change intervals to double from 2,000 miles to 4,000 miles! LOL
Due to several factors I will not be doing this myself. Proper environment, weather and me getting into that part of life where the only thing I crawl under the vehicle for is a simple oil change or Diff. fluid change are some but not all factors that contribute to the decision.
The dealer I bought the truck from keeps telling me it is not necessary. They are very small and frankly I think they are intimidated by the procedure. Another local dealer wants to do a BG flush. Another dealer wants near $1,000.00 for the service. And I am not sure I would trust them at one half that price. I have also been told that it is a lifetime fill. There is only one independent transmission shop near me that I MAY have any confidence in. They will do it but warn me ahead of time about the expense. Not giving me a quote but saying it will be very expensive. Also, I am not sure they will pay close attention to all the particulars like having the transmission perfectly level, fluid temps and proper sequencing during the procedure.
I realize that it will not be cheap but I do want to get what I pay for when it is done.

Hang in there folks I know this is long!

So I am looking for suggestions from people who are somewhat near me for a place to do the service. A place that you are confident will do the procedure correctly. Maybe a place you have experience with.
Or, perhaps another wrenching member that has appropriate facilities and has previously done the procedure that would assist me in doing it. I am willing to drive a considerable distance to get it done correctly. I would imagine that because of the cool transmission Temp requirement that I would need to find a motel to overnight.
If anyone has any experience with a shop that will do it correctly I sure would appreciate it if you could pass their information on to me.

Also, opinions on whether or not it is worth buying the replacement pan with the drain plug that allows the filter to be replaced. I think it has increased capacity as well.
I live in Upstate NY about 45 Minutes north of Albany.
Thank you in advance,
DD

If you want to drive over to southern Alberta i'd give ya a hand,lol. See if you can get a screen shot of this,and then take it with you to you're local shop you sort of trust,and tell them to follow this procedure to a "T" and they should be able to do it for you. These are the instructions that come with a "brand new" 8HP70 transmission.The procedure sounds intimidating,but it's actually not that hard .I have the PPE pan on my 8 speed,and i change the tranny fluid every 2 seasons of racing or about every 12 to 15,000 miles.

IMG_3383 (2).JPG
 
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Different Drummer

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Thanks Wild One. I had my bags all packed for a trip your way and then remembered I am not allowed across the border yet. Had to cancel my annual summer trip to NL this year.
I have done my homework and already read your previous posts about the transmission service. Already had the screen shot of the document that came with your new tranny.
If I have to go with the local guy I will first review the procedure with him and try to get reassurance that he will follow the procedure to the letter.
I guess if you are using the PPE pan you must like it. I did hear that it did not have as many magnets as the OEM but not sure if that is a big deal.
Another hurdle would be showing up at the shop with my own parts if I get the pan. You know how it is in retail they want to "Keystone" the parts and fluid prices.
I am not in severe service. I have read that OEM fluids are fine. Any opinions?
Thanks for your response.
DD
 

Wild one

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Thanks Wild One. I had my bags all packed for a trip your way and then remembered I am not allowed across the border yet. Had to cancel my annual summer trip to NL this year.
I have done my homework and already read your previous posts about the transmission service. Already had the screen shot of the document that came with your new tranny.
If I have to go with the local guy I will first review the procedure with him and try to get reassurance that he will follow the procedure to the letter.
I guess if you are using the PPE pan you must like it. I did hear that it did not have as many magnets as the OEM but not sure if that is a big deal.
Another hurdle would be showing up at the shop with my own parts if I get the pan. You know how it is in retail they want to "Keystone" the parts and fluid prices.
I am not in severe service. I have read that OEM fluids are fine. Any opinions?
Thanks for your response.
DD

The OEM fluid is probably one of the best fluids to use in the 8 speed,as it's ZF spec'd,not FCA spec'd,lol. I'm a fan of the PPE pan that's for sure,if it's in your budget it's well worth springing for it.
 

Burla

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Dealers will use OEM pan/filters (single unit pan+ filters) call that about 250 bucks, at least 8 quarts zf fluid and cheapest you see that is 25 bucks a qrt, as wildone said it is pao based and good stuff. I'm not sure maybe it will take more fluid dunno, so before the labor charge the dealer is into your transmission near 500 bucks with tax, so yeah it costs a grand. I would not trust a dealer quote much cheaper then that, if you do I bet they don't even flush it. It is a very labor intensive process, do you expect them to service the transmission for free?

Worse yet you can take it to an independent who doesn't have half a clue what they are doing but they charge you less and 10k miles later your tranny grenades because of low fluid and there is no way for you to check the level. There are many youtubes, the only way to do this is dyi imo. Personally, I'd do it between 60-80k miles if it were me, and look up zf lifegard fluid instead of mopar.
 

Burla

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  • USA $824.00 to $1105.00 (before taxes)
  • Canada $1135.00 to $1490.00 (before taxes)
That was the average zf flush cost a couple years ago for ram trucks, I do think the word on the street is it is a little less now, can't say for sure. Here is link.
 

Burla

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BTW, of course the zf runs hot, thus the need for base oils that handle heat better. So before you use atf4 you should consider what will happen long term with hot running temps. First line below is something you will see in most atf's, the second line base oil is what you find in zf fluid, so as you see in it's natural state it can handle the temps, which is the reason they say it is a lifetime fluid. Of course I don't believe it is a lifetime fluid, but each owner will have to make their own decision when to change fluid after considering everything. zf fluid great cold and hot performance.

Backup_200201_Lubricant-Selection---Fig-4.jpg
 

PoMansRam

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One guy I would completely trust to do the job would be Eric O who owns South Main Auto in Avoca NY, although that would probably be a drive for you. You may have seen some of his youtube videos. This guy is over the top awesome. I'm sure he would want to use OEM only parts and fluids, but he'll use what you want.

If/when I keep my 2019 long enough, I'll be doing a pan change and fluid swap myself. When I can get an aftermarket pan kit for our ZF8's mail ordered for around $30 shipped and use $30 worth of Maxlife ATF, I have a hard time spending 10-20x more to have someone do it. Especially when I don't know or trust them.
 

UHB1

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Fully agree. I have 203,000 km on my 2015 Ram 1500. Changed the fluid at 100k and then again at 200k - using Valvoline ATF seems fine.

Easy to do and the after market pan works just fine. Lots of YouTube videos and everyone of average skill can do it. Changing the fluid refreshes the additives that help prevent the synthetic fluid from oxidizing in the high heat. Oxidized ATF is going to gum up everything.

On the ecodiesel forum, I have seen ZF8 ATF test results that show that by 150,000 miles the additives are pretty much used up. Doing a dump and fill at some frequency will help maintain the fluid’s additive integrity.
 
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Batt4Christ

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I’m not normally one to try to talk someone out of doing maintenance- but I’m making an exception in this case-

Your little dealership isn’t “intimidated”. No dealership is opposed to taking your money, but in this case- they are hesitant to break open the case on a transmission where it is unnecessary. Thus transmission is a different beast- one that functions in the most “sealed” condition of pretty much the history of transmissions. To open it, exposing it to the possibility of contamination and error isn’t worth it. Except in the possible situation of having dramatically abused your truck by extreme over-loading it- you are literally gaining nothing, while spending a LOT of money in the process.

If I were at a point in my truck’s life where a transmission service was warranted, I think I would seriously consider a dealership. These transmissions have just too many intricacies to go to any shade tree guy...

But again, at this point- you are gaining absolutely nothing by changing fluid, but actually opening up a possibility of a problem, all while throwing away money.

And yes, longer oil change intervals break my mind too...



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Different Drummer

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First let me thank everyone who has responded to my query and offered information.
Reading some of the responses may have changed my eagerness to get the service done now at 40,000 miles.

Intellectually I am fully capable of doing the service myself. I did several transmission services on a Mercedes chassis motorhome I owned. The procedure though having minor differences was very similar. I just don't have decent facilities / environment to get the truck raised with the transmission level. And, working outside this time of year is becoming an issue. Though I hate to admit it, at 6"2" tall and just over 200 pounds and being in my seventh decade on the planet I just don't crawl under a vehicle as easily as I used to. With the truck on the ground it is a bit tight under the chassis for me even doing a simple oil change. I don't crawl under vehicles, drop a transmission on my chest and squirm out from under like I used to. Trust me guys, your day is coming. Father time gives no quarter.

As far a price goes I am willing to pay the reasonable and accepted rate as long as the procedure is done correctly.

Batt4Christ presents a good argument for waiting. I never open a brake fluid system because of the hydrophilic nature of brake fluid. Similar principle involved. My problem is I have always been high on break-in fluid changes. I did an early oil change on the RAM and believe me, there was easily identified metal as well as assembly materials in the oil filter when I examined it.

Having said all of that I feel somewhat more comfortable and not feeling any urgency at this point. Looks like I have time to develop a plan. After all, the vast majority of the mileage is highway and I have never towed with the truck. Hours = 970 driving and 59 idle.

As far as the dealer where I bought it. They are the same dealer that failed to put the friction modifier in my LSD when doing a fluid change ( despite me anally reminding them several times) as well as using 75W-140 which I suppose will not harm anything. None the less it did make me lose confidence in them.

Looks like there are less expensive materials that seem to be accepted as replacements. Not sure I will go that way if I do decide to do it myself when the weather gets back to more desirable but in the meantime I can investigate further.

IMO, if I have to spend $250.00 for an OEM pan/filter I might as well spend the extra money and get the PPE pan. That will allow for purchase of a filter only on future servicing.

I may be stuck home this winter and the truck will probably be put in storage to avoid the NE winter and salting of our highways so looks like I have some time to figure out a course of action.
 

Burla

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I got a couple inches on ya and a few pounds as well, I don't think little guys realize how much harder it is to carry some weight and height and age and get under a truck, lol. Since you have to level the truck to check level, you can put the truck up on stands before the service, makes a huge difference. I never like the idea of getting under 4 jack stands, even though you aren't really wrenching on anything. You can put stands on the front only, that will make quite a difference. Then after you finish then jack the backs level. But, good choice, something you can worry about another day. Maybe you will get a stimulus check and sock it away and decide to pay the dealer. good luck

I think it was Mercedes that messed up oil designs, man some of the old ones you need a manual on how to change the filter.
 

PoMansRam

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I just turned fiddy, are 6ft, 220lbs and have a hard enough time! Mostly the knees though.. LOL.

I respect everyone's opinion on this ZF8 maintenance topic, but when the transmission manufacturer itself recommends a 60K mile fluid service interval, it's got to mean something..

In the past, I liked to do a pan drop and fluid change at around 36K miles, but it's been many years since I've done a pan drop myself. I've done more drain/fills than I can recall though.. I haven't kept one of my vehicles past about 70K miles in 20+ years. I make great used cars..
 

indept

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One guy I would completely trust to do the job would be Eric O who owns South Main Auto in Avoca NY, although that would probably be a drive for you. You may have seen some of his youtube videos. This guy is over the top awesome. I'm sure he would want to use OEM only parts and fluids, but he'll use what you want.

If/when I keep my 2019 long enough, I'll be doing a pan change and fluid swap myself. When I can get an aftermarket pan kit for our ZF8's mail ordered for around $30 shipped and use $30 worth of Maxlife ATF, I have a hard time spending 10-20x more to have someone do it. Especially when I don't know or trust them.
If I recall correctly Verndiesel changes his every 60k and uses maxlife. He tows trailers with his for a living and last I read his trans is close to 500,000 miles with just oil & filter changes which is a good argument for changing regularly & for Maxlife. Anybody with updated or better info on his feel free to chime in.
 

Wild one

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I’m not normally one to try to talk someone out of doing maintenance- but I’m making an exception in this case-

Your little dealership isn’t “intimidated”. No dealership is opposed to taking your money, but in this case- they are hesitant to break open the case on a transmission where it is unnecessary. Thus transmission is a different beast- one that functions in the most “sealed” condition of pretty much the history of transmissions. To open it, exposing it to the possibility of contamination and error isn’t worth it. Except in the possible situation of having dramatically abused your truck by extreme over-loading it- you are literally gaining nothing, while spending a LOT of money in the process.

If I were at a point in my truck’s life where a transmission service was warranted, I think I would seriously consider a dealership. These transmissions have just too many intricacies to go to any shade tree guy...

But again, at this point- you are gaining absolutely nothing by changing fluid, but actually opening up a possibility of a problem, all while throwing away money.

And yes, longer oil change intervals break my mind too...



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Gotta disagree with you about you're "sealed" theory,lol.The 8 speed is vented to the atmosphere same as every other automatic transmission made.If it wasn't vented,it'd blow seals out right/left and center. If you research ZF's reconmendations on the 8speed,they reconmend a fluid and filter change anywhere from 80,000 to 130,000 "kilometers" not miles.Only FCA says it's sealed for life,the guys who actually build the tranny say service it,lol
 
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Different Drummer

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I got a couple inches on ya and a few pounds as well, I don't think little guys realize how much harder it is to carry some weight and height and age and get under a truck, lol. Since you have to level the truck to check level, you can put the truck up on stands before the service, makes a huge difference. I never like the idea of getting under 4 jack stands, even though you aren't really wrenching on anything. You can put stands on the front only, that will make quite a difference. Then after you finish then jack the backs level. But, good choice, something you can worry about another day. Maybe you will get a stimulus check and sock it away and decide to pay the dealer. good luck

I think it was Mercedes that messed up oil designs, man some of the old ones you need a manual on how to change the filter.
Mine was the van. Same as the one marketed as a Dodge sprinter. 5 Cyl. diesel with the oil filter ( canister type ) and fuel filter on the top side of the engine. I had a Futomoto valve on the oil pan and could do a complete oil and oil filter change in a Walmart parking lot in 15 Minutes taking my time.The fuel filter took a little longer because there were a couple of components that needed to be removed to access it.
But it certainly was not a difficult procedure.
 
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Different Drummer

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FCA is correct, once you get past 60000 miles it's no longer under warranty so it's your problem then. Another reason to change it.
Oh it will be done no later than 50,000 miles for sure!
Looking at tires soon as well. I guess there really is some merit in buying new every 3-4 years if you can afford it. I have a friend that lives by that philosophy. He ignores all the things that I worry about and fuss over. Tire rotations, proper break in proper intervals on oil / filter changes etc, etc. Just puts gas in and drives it. After three years it goes back to the dealer and the cycle starts all over again.
 

tfeni52355

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Oh it will be done no later than 50,000 miles for sure!
Looking at tires soon as well. I guess there really is some merit in buying new every 3-4 years if you can afford it. I have a friend that lives by that philosophy. He ignores all the things that I worry about and fuss over. Tire rotations, proper break in proper intervals on oil / filter changes etc, etc. Just puts gas in and drives it. After three years it goes back to the dealer and the cycle starts all over again.

If you can swing the monthly payments that’s not a bad way to live. But I look forward to paying off my truck, freeing up the $600 cash each month and driving my truck ‘til the wheels go square without a payment.

Who knows, since I work from home now and don’t drive near what I used to since this Covid thing happened, maybe I can actually pull it off. :)


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chrisbh17

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A bit of an experiment (not what you want to try on a $5k+ transmission) but.... Do the first complete fluid change by 60k miles, then a simple drain and refill every 10k miles after.

I would be curious if most or all of the wearing of parts was done before the unit hits 60k. Then a drain and refill just keeps fresh fluid in it.

I went this route in our old Acura which was known for a horrible transmission design that tended to grenade itself prematurely. The original trans died at 65k miles, got it replaced and every oil change did a drain and refill on the trans (about 33% fluid change each time)

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