Unhappy with 1500 towing. Need Help

[Hobobob]

Everyone here has been great with their suggestions and recommendations. Several have said that I have the wrong truck for that trailer. That is obvious to me now. I’ve been spending my time shopping and comparing 3/4 ton trucks online. Ram, Ford and GMC. They are pretty scarce right now and ordering one the way I want it will really cut into the summer camping season by the time it gets delivered. I’m really having a hard time with the fact that the 2500’s are all made in Mexico. It’s my issue. I know that it might not bother many of you but with a big purchase like that I want to take care of American Union workers. I don’t know if I’ll find a truck to suite me but I feel that our travels will really be limited with my current Longhorn.

I had the 1500 Big Horn. Towed my trailer fine but I always pushed the weight limits. Traded for a 2500 Big Horn with the hemi. I am very happy.

 

[erik53]

I just upgraded from a 2014 1500 CC 3.6L short box to a 2022 3500 CC 6.4L short box in order to be able to tow a bigger trailer. The 3500 is about one foot longer, and that difference is enough to make it more difficult to park at the grocery store. I looked at Ford and GM HD trucks with similar configurations, and they were another 1 foot longer than the HD RAM. Since my truck doubles as a grocery-getter, that alone was enough for me to justify staying with RAM. I considered a RAM 2500 but went with the 3500 in order to have the option to tow a small 5W in the future, should I so choose. The 3500 is a bit harsher unloaded, but I find it fine. Although it can haul more, it is not by itself significantly heavier than the 2500, and similarly equipped (Big Horn) it didn't cost significantly more than the 2500. Getting the 3500 Big Horn (made in Mexico) took just under 10 weeks. With the large CCC of the 3500, you can add all kinds of options without worrying about weight, but those options (especially those involving electronics) will likely have you waiting much longer for delivery.

 

[clayinfla]

I would be very surprised if your payload was 1700lbs. The only 1500's I have seen with that high of a payload was a stripped down Tradesman. Check your yellow door sticker

Surprise!

 

[dhay13]

Surprise!

Yep, I'm surprised...lol

 

[runamuck]

these posts were fun to read. especially the gearing stuff. I dont have any trouble pulling the 28' 6000# trailer of mine with my 1500. I can put along at 67-68 mph running at about 2000 rpm. I always use tow/haul and I set cruise unless the terrain is hilly. you dont need to run out and get 10 ply tires..you wont like the way those ride when not towing. do put on a set of airbags and change out the sway bar to a stiffer one and better shocks. run a little more air in your tires when towing..assuming they are truck tires and not highway tires. travel slower. make sure your hitch and trailer are set up correctly for your truck. you are at the top end of what your truck will pull so expect it to work hard. a 2500 weighs more, doesnt have much lower gears than yours and only a little bit more powerful motor so dont expect it to pull much better but it will be a a lot more stable and you will be able to carry more stuff but those are scarce right now and pricey.

 

[Bricknhank]

Regarding made in Mexico...After I purchased it and while crawling in, under & around my 2020 1500, 5.7L, ETorque, 4x4, Crew cab, to familiarize myself...EVERYTHING had/has a label that said 'Made In Mexico'. So, it is not only the 2500's or others.

I’m going by the VIN and my truck VIN starts with a “1” Made in Mexico VIN’s start with a 3.

 

[dhay13]

The 2500 6.4 WILL pull much better. Much better torque. I have towed 9000lbs with both and no comparison. Yes it will still rev on hills but not nearly as hard

 

[crash68]

I’m really close to being maxed out according to factory specs and most likely over with any weight in the truck/trailer.

Just an FYI, the weight limit numbers listed for trucks nowadays are as tested per SAE J2807(Ram was the first to do so officially with the '15 model year). They're what the manufacturer says you can do safely, there is also safety factor built into those numbers so don't think you can't go right up to the line.
As for the whole lawsuit notion, the payload police like spouting that one without any factual backing.

 

[392DevilDog]

Just have to keep in mind that the SAE J2807 number is set with only needing to maintain 45 MPH. So if you are a person who needs to fly 80 down the highway...you are gonna be disappointed.

That is why from time to time you will see a truck fail on TFL torture test...because they go for maximum speed...and that is not what the test does.

And also as a reminder...the max tow number is GCWR (which SAE J2807 sets) minus base weight. So no driver or hitch.

Just got to keep this stuff in mind.

And HEMI and RPM go together like peanut butter and jelly.

 

[crash68]

And also as a reminder...the max tow number is GCWR (which SAE J2807 sets) minus base weight. So no driver or hitch.

The J2807 includes the driver and hitch, how else is the truck going to make it down the road? Also the truck configuration tested includes any options with higher than 33 percent pene tration. So the bare bones strip down model is not what is tested.
There also no 45 mph speed rating, if there was then why do the test include 40 to 60 mph acceleration times? The speed can't drop off below 40 mph while climbing a grade.

 

[NH RAM]

People often don't know the J2807 parameters; it is most definitely not implying that you will tow with the flow of traffic in every situation. I purposely undersized my 5w because I don't want to be at 40 mph uphill (I really don't tow on 7% grades often either).
Looking at these parameters, you can see how they are pretty reliant on the ability to get the load moving and up to speed. This is where the 3.92 will outshine the 3.21.
I'm not convinced that in the 8HP75 equipped HD trucks the difference between 3.73 and 4.10 equates to a 2500# difference in capacity, but it is what it is.

PERFORMANCE ATTRIBUTE	PERFORMANCE METRIC	REQUIREMENT
Level Road Acceleration	0-60 mph	30.0 seconds single-rear-wheel/35.0 seconds dual-rear-wheel
Level Road Acceleration	0-30 mph	12.0 seconds single rear wheel /14.0 sseconds dual rear wheel
Level Road Acceleration	40-60 mph	18.0 seconds single-rear-wheel/21.0 seconds dual-rear-wheel
Launch on Grade	12% grade, forward direction	Five launches to 5.0 meters (16 feet) in 5 minutes
Launch on Grade	12% grade, reverse direction	Five launches to 5.0 meters (16 feet) in 5 minutes
Highway Gradeability	Minimum speed on grade (Davis Dam)	40 mph single-rear-wheel/35 mph dual-rear-wheel
Highway Gradeability	Drivetrain system performance	No component failures, no diagnostic codes that alert the operator, no customer warnings
Highway Gradeability	Cooling system performance	No component failures, no diagnostic codes that alert the operator to take service or driving action, no customer warnings, no fluid loss

PERFORMANCE ATTRIBUTE	PERFORMANCE METRIC	REQUIREMENT
Tow-vehicle understeer	Understeer* for0.1 g ≤ Lateral acceleration ≤ 0.3 g	<0 degree/g
Trailer Sway Response	Trailer sway damping ratio	≤ 0.10 at 100 km/h (62.1 mph)

Combination Braking Requirements​

PERFORMANCE ATTRIBUTE	PERFORMANCE METRIC	REQUIREMENT
Combination Stability	Deviation within lane	Remain within a 3.5-meter-wide (11.5 feet) lane throughout stop
Combination Stopping Distance	Stopping distance 20-0 mph for TWR ≤3,000 pounds	≤35 feet, except ≤45 feet at any TWR above the tow vehicle’s unbraked TWR
Combination Stopping Distance	Stopping distance 20-0 mph for TWR >3,000 pounds	≤80 feet
Park Brake Performance	Hold on grade	12% grade at GCWR (upward and downward)

 

[392DevilDog]

The J2807 includes the driver and hitch, how else is the truck going to make it down the road? Also the truck configuration tested includes any options with higher than 33 percent pene tration. So the bare bones strip down model is not what is tested.
There also no 45 mph speed rating, if there was then why do the test include 40 to 60 mph acceleration times? The speed can't drop off below 40 mph while climbing a grade.

You misread me. The RAM MAX TOW NUMBER PEOPLE GET FROM THE WEBSITE.

And yes...i meant the speed they can not drop below while climbing a grade. I thought it was 45 for SRW and 35 for DRW...but 40 Mph works

 

[392DevilDog]

The only option my tradesman Has is tow mirrors. I have a 2998 Payload. The chart says 3110. So...they didn't include 33% of options.

I give in. I am over the towing discussions. 28 more days to camping. I know what my truck can tow and haul...and my camper is a perfect fit.
GVWR 10000
GCWR 19400

10000 minus 2998 equals 7002
19400 minus 7002 equals 12398

Front GAWR 5500
Rear GAWR 6500

I have plenty of capacity left. I let that HEMI sing it's Anthem and enjoy every trip.

 

[392DevilDog]

Just have to keep in mind that the SAE J2807 number is set with only needing to maintain 45 MPH. So if you are a person who needs to fly 80 down the highway...you are gonna be disappointed.

That is why from time to time you will see a truck fail on TFL torture test...because they go for maximum speed...and that is not what the test does.

And also as a reminder...the max tow number is GCWR (which SAE J2807 sets) minus base weight. So no driver or hitch.

Just got to keep this stuff in mind.

And HEMI and RPM go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Let me rephrase this...

It is 40mph the combination must maintain up hill. So it is worse than I said. I understand now...how i wrote it was confusing.

GCWR is what is set by SAE J2807. (Which is with 300lbs for passenger and driver and 70 to 150 for hitch depending)

When you use the ram site to get your VIN towing number it is just GCWR minus Base Weight ( or curb weight for those that argue that)

So no driver or hitch figured in. You need both.



For example...to try to not have confusion

7100 GVWR
13900 GCWR

7100 minus 1529 equals 5571

13900 minus 5571 equals 8329

No hitch. No driver.

Thanks for following along. I'm out

 

[ramffml]

Looking at these parameters, you can see how they are pretty reliant on the ability to get the load moving and up to speed. This is where the 3.92 will outshine the 3.21.

That table is a great summary. Motortrend has a great article on it as well:

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

Maximum trailer tow ratings have been a bit of a mystery over the years. Manufacturers each had their own somewhat secret ways of determining how much weight th

www.motortrend.com

The biggest problem I have with the standard, is how people fixate on the numbers without realizing which numbers actually matter to them in real life situations. For a start let's compare the v6 with a 3.92 to the v8 with 3.21. The v6 is at 7300 pounds and the v8 at 8200 for a CC 4x4 with the 5.5 foot bed.

So 900 pounds separate the two according to J2807, but I can guarantee you in real life everyone will notice there is a large difference in towing power. Cost of truck/fuel aside, everyone would much rather tow with the hemi.

And again my whole point in this thread was not that the 3.92 is a poor choice, it's not. It's a great choice for many people, but its not going to make a difference on the highway at 62 mph (the context of this thread).

So while the 3.92 can launch you quicker off the line, how many people need more power than the 3.21 has off the line? How many people absolutely bury the pedal from a dead stop while towing and need more than that? When I bury the pedal, its because I need to get on the freeway or pass a trucker.

The standard doesn't account for the fact that 99% of the time I'm towing, I'm sitting between 3rd and 7th. Obviously this number differs depending on your location and towing habits, but how many people need to launch from 0 to 30 repeatedly on a grade in less than X seconds?

That's the problem I have with the standard. It tells you what the truck can do, but not how relevant that "doing" is to my needs.

It's a very similar thing to reports like "truck X has 75 problems per 100 vehicles" and "truck Y has 80 problems" ... ok. But now qualify those on a scale of importance, because losing my transmission in a truck is far worse than having my bluetooth occasionally not pairing.

I'm not saying I have a solution to this, we need the standards and they are a good thing, but it's important to look at the entire picture without fixating on a specific test.

 

[IvoryHemi]

It’s not just acceleration, there are braking metrics too.

I can say from experience, the engine braking with 3.92 axle is noticeably better

 

[corneileous]

It’s not just acceleration, there are braking metrics too.

I can say from experience, the engine braking with 3.92 axle is noticeably better

Yep, exactly. There’s so much more too it than just wasting time focusing on and trying to make too big of a deal about the 8-speed’s ability to make up for it by running one or two gears lower for too high of a rear end gear.

 

[ramffml]

It’s not just acceleration, there are braking metrics too.

I can say from experience, the engine braking with 3.92 axle is noticeably better

That's not been my experience at all. And to be honest in terms of braking I feel very little effect of the trailer since the trailer should be stopping its own weight.

 

[NH RAM]

I had a 2016 1500 with 8hp70, 3.21 gears, and the 5.7 before my current truck. We started with a smaller camper to "try it out" and see if we would enjoy camping (Wildwood Xlite 230BHXL). We pulled it from New Hampshire to the four corners, and up/over Wolf Creek Pass, and back home and it did great! We really liked camping, especially since it was a vacation we could take our German Shepherd with us on, but the camper was fairly small and not enough windows for rainy New England stretches of weather.

My next trailer was a Coleman 2855BH, which was about 5700# dry and 7500 maxed out, but about 32' long. My truck was rated for 8050# IIRC with the 3.21 gears so I was nearly at max towing capacity when loaded with the family and dog. My rear axle was over by a couple hundred pounds and I was within a few hundred pounds of the GCWR of the truck. Interestingly, I found that the truck towed REALLY well at slower cruising speeds on back roads and non-interstates, at 35-50 mph. The truck did not like highway speeds as much, it had to work harder to maintain the speed and fight the added air resistance. Highway speeds for me was ideally 62-65 mph. Towing in Canada on the highway wasn't as bad because of the lower speed limits. I felt that the truck was being worked pretty hard and it saw 3000 rpms on many small hills and it hit 4500 a few times. I don't mind if the engine has to hit those rpms occasionally, but it just didn't feel like it did much for forward motion, it just made more noise when I hit 4000-4500 rpms.

Technically, 3.92 gears would have given me the ability to tow more weight, but within the parameters of what I needed it to do, like many families pulling a travel trailer, it didn't matter because the remaining capacities would be exceeded.

When I bought that truck I wanted 3.92 gears but they only had 3.92's in a black tradesman, which was okay, but the Big Horn with 3.21 I ended up with felt identical on the test drive (not towing of course) and was much better equipped. I reviewed data while considering swapping axles to 3.92 gearing but ultimately decided there wasn't going to be enough of a difference to justify the cost, especially with the limited payload, axle ratings, and GCWR. I read many times that the 3.92 geared truck was essentially one gear higher than a 3.21 geared truck once the load was moving. My conclusion was that I would be far better served with a 2500 and 6.4 with 8hp75 as that would check all the boxes that the 1500 was unable to, and no matter what, the gearing wasn't changing the gcwr or axle ratings.
Both trucks had a leveling kit; the 1500 was 2.1" and the 2500 is 2.5". Both trucks were running about .75" upsized all terrain, severe weather rated tires on aluminum wheels.
*Payload- doubled from 1500# to 3100# - and this is usually the limiting factor when towing campers.
*Towing- 8050 to 14,410#
*Towing mpg were very close but the 6.4 showed about .5 mpg better with the same camper on the same routes.
*The 6.4 cruises along at about 1800 rpm on flats, jumps to about 2100 on smaller inclines, and hits 3000 rpm on long stretches of 3-4% grades. The 6.4 is overall a much nicer towing engine.

I decided I was finally going to try a 5w since I had a 2500 and I got a Cougar 30RLS, which has a gvwr of 11,000 vs my Coleman 7,500. I get slightly better mpg towing the 5w and it's easier to tow than the Coleman tt. The best decision I made was moving to a 2500 and 5w.

In my opinion, the 3.21 vs 3.92 gearing isn't going to be as significant a difference as the OP wants, which was the same for me. Upgrade the truck. The 2500 rides about the same as my 1500 did on e-rated tires. I run 17" wheels in the summer and 18" in the winter. When my 1500 was stock I could get 19-20 mpg on the highway, but leveled and with the 34's it got about 17 mpg highway. My 2500 gets 16-17 highway with 34's. Cruising around town is about 15-16 in the 2500 and 17-18 in the 1500. The 2500 needs an airfield to do a U-turn whereas the 1500 was more maneuverable.
My insurance DROPPED going from the 2016 1500 to the 2019 2500.

 

[Dusty]

Absolutely not true. The 3.21 tows just as well on the highway as the 3.92, just one transmission gear behind it.

Having owned both a 3.92 and now a 3.21 in a Ram 1500 I would have to agree with you. In general. On a fairly flat surface the 3.92 and 3.21 stay in gear about the same, except you might be in 8th gear on a 3.92, and in 7th gear with a 3.21.

Towing the same trailer and tractor (<>7000 lbs.) the 3.92 launched from a stop better. As for passing at highway speeds I really don't think there's much, if any, difference. On hills I was surprised that my current 3.21 does much less gear hunting, and my route has some pretty tall hills (I87 & I99, NY Southerntier). I just looked at my fuel consumption record and oddly my current '19 has recorded a small decrease in fuel usage at 0.4 MPG when towing (2014 w/8-speed, versus 2019 w/8-speed, same body/drivetrain configuration).

Obviously, the 3.21 has a towing limit that the 3.92 easily exceeds, but my towing requirements went from 10,000 to 7000 lbs., and since I tow less that 0.2% of the yearly accumulated miles, I opted for the 3.21, which has rendered a 1.1 MPG advantage in average driving over the 3.92.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 066221 miles.