Valve train driving me crazy!

[Sorefingers]

Ok, hopefully someone that builds these Hemi motors for a living can help.
I will try to make this short, but I have a 2015 Jeep grand Cherokee 5.7 L engine. The thing was running fine then all of a sudden it would run with loud valve knocking and valve train noise then the next day it would run quiet and normal, no power loss. figured maybe there was a problem with VVT or MDS solenoids, and or cam and lifters. So I replaced cam lifters water pump oil pump all the gaskets, torques all per the book. It was a lower quality kit i think probably out of china from ebay store. I did not measure cam lobes but setting side by side looked good.everything went together nice . Old cam gad two lobes with a small amount of wear. Never found anything that would cause such loud noise. Replaced vvt solenoid, replaced mds solenoids all new parts. So back together and motor sounds like an old typewriter consistent ticking like to much valve lash. Soaked lifters in oil, used assembly lube, checked preload its at .065 . Runs good just noisy power norma, no codes after driving for an hr. Then a cylinder 7 misfire and started running ruff, pulled motor apart a second time found #7 exhaust lifter pushrod cup loose and internal plunger jammed to the bottom. And one of the mds side activating plunger stuck in, inside the lifter. Replaced the lifter, could not see and damage anywhere, everything looked good. Put head back on , motor running same sound. Like lifters not pumping up. Runs good. Oil pressure from new pump says 30-49 at idle and upto 70-80 at higher rpm. Push rod balls look good and round, pulled valve cover to see oil flow and i have lots making it to top , rocker arms don’t show signs of severe wear. Where could i be losing oil pressure? Or could it be crappy lifters? It sounds like all lifters and rockers are making noise unmistakably. Any help would be so appreciated. Should I spend the money get oem mopar lifters and cam?

 

[Ken226]

All due respect, but i'm not sure there is anything that anyone can do to help. Maybe except with some advice.

Start over, from the beginning. Toss all of the cheap ebay stuff into the garbage bin and consider the money already spent to be the tuition paid for the lesson learned.

Buy quality parts. Or better, get a Mopar crate engine.

For the lifters and camshaft, go OEM. Or, if you are a risk taker, try Johnson or Comp Cams. Definitely NOT eBay.

 

[Wild one]

All due respect, but i'm not sure there is anything that anyone can do to help. Maybe except with some advice.

Start over, from the beginning. Toss all of the cheap ebay stuff into the garbage bin and consider the money already spent to be the tuition paid for the lesson learned.

Buy quality parts. Or better, get a Mopar crate engine.

For the lifters and camshaft, go OEM. Or, if you are a risk taker, try Johnson or Comp Cams. Definitely NOT eBay.

Comps inhouse built lifters don't have a real good rep in the hi-po world,use either OEM or Johnson lifters with the axle oiling.

 

[Ken226]

Comps inhouse built lifters don't have a real good rep in the hi-po world,use either OEM or Johnson lifters with the axle oiling.

Yea,

So far here on the forum, we have a report of 1 set of comp lifters actually working from the get-go. I was hoping I could get that stat up to 2, at someone else's expense.

We're still at exactly 0 for the Ebay/Amazon/Engine-tech lifters.


Given that a set of "Hellcat" OEM Mopar non-mds lifters can be had for 480$, it's a no-brainer

Genuine Mopar 05038784AD Non-MDS Hellcat Lifters 4-Pack

Upgrade your Gen 3 Hemi with authentic Mopar Performance Hellcat Lifters and Trays (Part # 05038784AD). Perfect for MDS deletes. In stock at Scoggin Dickey Parts Center!

sdparts.com

But somehow, over and over, folks keep using these things from eBay and Amazon. I have no idea how they are still selling when i've not heard a single report of them working. Not once, ever.

 

[Wild one]

Yea,

So far here on the forum, we have a report of 1 set of comp lifters actually working from the get-go. I was hoping I could get that stat up to 2, at someone else's expense.

We're still at exactly 0 for the Ebay/Amazon/Engine-tech lifters.


Given that a set of "Hellcat" OEM Mopar non-mds lifters can be had for 480$, it's a no-brainer

Genuine Mopar 05038784AD Non-MDS Hellcat Lifters 4-Pack

Upgrade your Gen 3 Hemi with authentic Mopar Performance Hellcat Lifters and Trays (Part # 05038784AD). Perfect for MDS deletes. In stock at Scoggin Dickey Parts Center!

sdparts.com

But somehow, over and over, folks keep using these things from eBay and Amazon. I have no idea how they are still selling when i've not heard a single report of them working. Not once, ever.

Alot of guys don't realize lifters are the hardest things to build and get right in an engine.They have the tightest tolerances and require super precise machining otherwise they're junk.
I totally agree about using any cheap aftermarket lifter,very seldom do they last past a month or 2,before you're replacing them

 

[Sorefingers]

Well, thanks guys that kind of confirms what I was thinking I actually knew better but thought I’d give it a try to use the lower cost parts because I was trying to fix this vehicle for the family member for as cheap as I could, but I guess I’ve gotta pull it apart and get some real parts in there. Is there anything specific to look for on lifters as far as anything to measure to determine whether or not they meet OE standards?
Is it possible the push rod is not seating in the lifter cup properly or well enough to pump up lifters?
Thanks

 

[Ken226]

Well, thanks guys that kind of confirms what I was thinking I actually knew better but thought I’d give it a try to use the lower cost parts because I was trying to fix this vehicle for the family member for as cheap as I could, but I guess I’ve gotta pull it apart and get some real parts in there. Is there anything specific to look for on lifters as far as anything to measure to determine whether or not they meet OE standards?
Is it possible the push rod is not seating in the lifter cup properly or well enough to pump up lifters?
Thanks

Not unless can somehow find the material specs, dimensions and tolerances for the lifter assembly and also possess the metrology tools needed to use that info. I doubt that Chrysler publishes that info.

The best you could do is to buy a set of quality OEM lifters to measure and compare. But, by the time you spend the money to do all of that, your far beyond saving money and may as well just install the OEM lifters.

Buy stuff from a brand you trust and from a supplier you trust, or be prepared to do the job more than once.

 

[EdGs]

.......We're still at exactly 0 for the Ebay/Amazon/Engine-tech lifters.

Given that a set of "Hellcat" OEM Mopar non-mds lifters can be had for 480$, it's a no-brainer

Genuine Mopar 05038784AD Non-MDS Hellcat Lifters 4-Pack

Upgrade your Gen 3 Hemi with authentic Mopar Performance Hellcat Lifters and Trays (Part # 05038784AD). Perfect for MDS deletes. In stock at Scoggin Dickey Parts Center!

sdparts.com

But somehow, over and over, folks keep using these things from eBay and Amazon. I have no idea how they are still selling when i've not heard a single report of them working. Not once, ever.

If you decide to keep the MDS, The OE lifters will run you $8-900 a set.

OE MDS cam is about $500

What kind of mileage on your engine? Because other things wear. Valve stems, rocker arms, pushrods, etc. That wear can contribute to noise as clearances increase.

 

[Slinge]

Well, thanks guys that kind of confirms what I was thinking I actually knew better but thought I’d give it a try to use the lower cost parts because I was trying to fix this vehicle for the family member for as cheap as I could, but I guess I’ve gotta pull it apart and get some real parts in there. Is there anything specific to look for on lifters as far as anything to measure to determine whether or not they meet OE standards?
Is it possible the push rod is not seating in the lifter cup properly or well enough to pump up lifters?
Thanks

A vendor on this sight will give you a quote on Mopar Parts.

Benny
ALLMOPARPARTS

 

[Brandon-w]

Alot of guys don't realize lifters are the hardest things to build and get right in an engine.They have the tightest tolerances and require super precise machining otherwise they're junk.
I totally agree about using any cheap aftermarket lifter,very seldom do they last past a month or 2,before you're replacing them

Kinda miss the solid lifter 350 chevs!

 

[Wild one]

Kinda miss the solid lifter 350 chevs!

Not me,i grew out of liking pulling valve covers on a weekly or semi weekly basis to adjust solid lifters,although a solid roller lifter now wouldn't require as much maintence as the old solid flat tappet lifters required,but it's still gonna require adjustment every couple months

 

[Brandon-w]

Not me,i grew out of liking pulling valve covers on a weekly or semi weekly basis to adjust solid lifters,although a solid roller lifter now wouldn't require as much maintence as the old solid flat tappet lifters required,but it's still gonna require adjustment every couple months

But you were good at it and how many cams did the old 350 eat haha

 

[Wild one]

But you were good at it and how many cams did the old 350 eat haha

That was back when oil was designed for flat tappet cams,now not so much,lol. I couldn't count the amount of gallons of oil i put on the ground,doing weekly valve adjustments ,somehow always managed to end up leaking blood every damn time to

 

[Brandon-w]

I had a trappet cover with holes drilled in it so I didn't make a mess everywhere. I did a ton of adjustments when I worked oilfield that was the easiest solution.

 

[Brandon-w]

That was back when oil was designed for flat tappet cams,now not so much,lol. I couldn't count the amount of gallons of oil i put on the ground,doing weekly valve adjustments ,somehow always managed to end up leaking blood every damn time to

Man were good at derailing threads

 

[Ken226]

Well, thanks guys that kind of confirms what I was thinking I actually knew better but thought I’d give it a try to use the lower cost parts because I was trying to fix this vehicle for the family member for as cheap as I could, but I guess I’ve gotta pull it apart and get some real parts in there. Is there anything specific to look for on lifters as far as anything to measure to determine whether or not they meet OE standards?
Is it possible the push rod is not seating in the lifter cup properly or well enough to pump up lifters?
Thanks

Make sure you inspect everything else. You wouldn't be the first to do a cam/lifter replacement only to later find that the problem was worn or bent push rods, worn out rocker arms or valve stems.

Check everything.

 

[js12278]

Make sure you inspect everything else. You wouldn't be the first to do a cam/lifter replacement only to later find that the problem was worn or bent push rods, worn out rocker arms or valve stems.

Check everything.

Or that the oil control valve is loaded with metal

 

[Dusty]

It pays sometimes NOT to jump to conclusions, especially about valve train noise. Over the last 8-10 years I know of three cases where it was automatically proclaimed to be a lifter/cam failure and it was not, and after tear down it was found to be something else. The last one, after replacing the cam and lifters, it still had the same noise. They later found a cracked rocker arm.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 144260 miles.

 

[Sorefingers]

Ok guys, thanks for all your input. I do have a question on the lifter preload. The motor is together after pulling apart 3 times and everything looks good with the exception of the low value cam and lifter parts but all check out good. Runs good, plenty of power, only codes after 30 miles was a random cylinder 7 misfire. Still sounds like noisy valve train. Not specific to one spot in motor, but louder than normal ticking. I have about 60-65 thou of preload. Would it be worth it to get longer pushrods to move that preload to 80-85 ? If the lifters were not charging at all it would misfire like crazy right? Also oil pressure is 80 cold and 35 warm at idle. Throttled up tick stays about the same noise level. Is it possible that these cheaper Chinese lifters will work better with more preload?

 

[Hagar1]

But you were good at it and how many cams did the old 350 eat haha

Well, truth be told, the old Chevy small block ate its share of camshafts.