Would you run Michelins anymore? Or any tire that uses recycled plastic?

[Burla]

Autoblog link coming next year.

Michelin says its goal of "achieving 40% sustainable materials (of renewable or recycled origin) by 2030 and 100% by 2050" is one step closer to reality. The French tire giant has successfully tested a plastic recycling technology by French biochemistry company Carbios that can be used in tire production.

So we now go from talk to actually seeing this in development and this is scheduled to happen in 2024. So when you think about what we ask tires to do, stay inflated in hot and cold while having a ton or two of weight at all times, not to mention heat cycles and what that does to tires. And lets discuss what sunlight does to plastic, would you trust recycled plastic tires in sunlight for 5 years? Prior to this plastic has not been able to be recycled for anything other then a filler or friendship brackets. In fact greenpeace official position is that plastic cannot ever be really recycled, once it is denatured the plastic will loose strength and not even hold water, but next year these tires that stay inflated and hold up tons of weight, will now have recycled plastic. So, they say they have figured it out, they "say" we are really to make our tires with recycled plastic. Michelin is in fact a top two tire here cooper being the other on this board according to the other poll.

So did Michelin nail it? Did they fully embrace what their customers are looking for? Isnt that important to you recycling stuff? Or did they blow it? Did the lose the locker room with this stunt that might really end wrong?

 

[Docwagon1776]

Do you think the exterior of the carcass is going to be recycled plastic? From your comments on sunlight, I'm guessing so.

I'm not a chemist. I doubt many people who will knee jerk comment in this thread are either, but I suspect the people who Michelin hired know what they are about. I also suspect most customers won't know the difference and it'll be pretty invisible to the customer.

 

[Burla]

^

I don't know. I personally replaced my michelins with cross tech michelins on the wife's car, so this surely doesnt come from anything but concern on my part. they have been great tires for us. But feel free to make a comment in support of this, sounds like maybe you headed that way? That is what I am curious about, take a side, you using recycled plastic in tires to move your kids a to b or not?


BTW, this isnt an internet thing, I'm sure most have you have seen the commercials? Which is where I heard it first, on a national football game so they are all in. Much of their comercials have been taking down, maybe negative feeback? You can still see a lot of them, girls throwing out yogurt cups and those going right into tires, still is up in many foreign languages.

The six tenants of Michelin from their media release, to make Michelin a global leader in sustainable mobility, as well as one of the world’s most innovative, responsible and top-performing companies in fulfilling its financial, environmental and social responsibility commitments.

Their words not mine. I wish I did this earlier, they ran many weeks of this recycled plastic idea as part of their mobility platform marketing. I would bet they arent abandoning it but rather being more careful with their words.

Now, my hope is someday they will have airless tire tech that is reasonably priced and can use recycled plastic or whatever. As long as it is airless, I have an open mind. But using recycled plastic in aired tires?

Michelin Vision Recycling concept

In a lifetime, you will be using many tires. But do you know what they become? In 2018, 50% of tires are recycled into rubber, asphalt, construction material...

youtu.be

 

[Burla]

Do you think the exterior of the carcass is going to be recycled plastic? From your comments on sunlight, I'm guessing so.

I'm not a chemist. I doubt many people who will knee jerk comment in this thread are either, but I suspect the people who Michelin hired know what they are about. I also suspect most customers won't know the difference and it'll be pretty invisible to the customer.

They wouldnt have a national campaign, and in fact international campaign, on this if they want it to be invisible. I wouldn't have seen this commercial while watching a football game if Michelin didnt want me to support this, which is what they are betting on.

If you look at other tire companies you don't see this, you can google any tire company and their mission statement, goodyears is "to deliver quality products". BFG same ilk as goodyear just longer and drawn out. Coopers mission statement increase value for their shareholders, lol. I oddly like that somehow. But, Michelins wants you to know their main stated goal is sustainability. Is that what you look for in a tire? Maybe so, maybe they will gain customers because indeed they want everyone to know they will be the leader on this moving forward. I don't know of any other tire company doing so. Either way it is a bold move?
us version

 

[Shawn Burns]

I am suspicious of how this could work, but I have an open mind at the same time. I persoinally will not be one of the people who will test the tires and potentially put my loved ones at risk. My wife currently has michelins on her mazda. She hauls my two beautiful children all over the damn place. I couldn't imagine losing them in one swoop so a company can get social credit points, or whatever micheline is doing. I also have just switched to michelins on my motorcycles, but I'm doubtful that michelin would use plastic in race tires.

The reason that I am keeping an open mind is that I had similar suspicions when I heard that a major oil company was going to use natural gas to make engine oil. Fast forward to today and half of the forum uses that product in their Rams.

It will be an interesting topic over beers with some of my engineering buddies. My public servant brain will not be able to keep up once those egg heads start using their noodles, though.

 

[Docwagon1776]

^

I don't know. I personally replaced my michelins with cross tech michelins on the wife's car, so this surely doesnt come from anything but concern on my part. they have been great tires for us. But feel free to make a comment in support of this, sounds like maybe you headed that way? That is what I am curious about, take a side, you using recycled plastic in tires to move your kids a to b or not?

Completely agnostic. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. I'm all for diversity in supply chains. Do you have any idea how little biodiversity there is in natural rubber trees and how catastrophic the equivalent of the Irish Potato Famine would be to the economy if rubber trees were hit? It's frankly frightening. I've got zero issue with the concept. Will it be better for the environment or economy? No idea. Maybe it'll use more energy than it's worth, maybe it will create more problems. Maybe it'll be awesome. There is literally no way for me to have an informed opinion, as I don't know or understand the underlying science or processes enough to do anything but knee jerk.

Haven't seen the commercials, don't watch broadcast/cable/satellite tv unless in a hotel room.

The 'move your kids' argument is useless on me. I fully expect the tires will meet US specs to be sold here and I'd trust them more than the Made in China cheap-os some people here say are 'just as good as...'

 

[ramffml]

I'd prefer a third option: "willing to try them after they've been tested extensively a few years".

I have never had a bad experience with Michelin, can't say the same for other brands I've tried. I'm not loyal in the slightest but I do think Michelin usually builds a killer tire so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[Travelin Ram]

I don’t care. Will we drive vehicles with recycled steel in it?

The marketplace will sort it out. People talk all kinds of values, but when they get down to it most will choose price/performance and all that other stuff is forgotten.

 

[Dean2]

Have run Michelins on various vehicies since the 70s. I doubt they would risk their entire reputation on bad tires that they are so publicly featuring as their way forward. Won't know for sure how good recycled tires are till we get some experience with them, but given their track record, I am willing to bet on Michelin being more right than wrong.

 

[Burla]

Have run Michelins on various vehicies since the 70s. I doubt they would risk their entire reputation on bad tires that they are so publicly featuring as their way forward. Won't know for sure how good recycled tires are till we get some experience with them, but given their track record, I am willing to bet on Michelin being more right than wrong.

Fair points, but they arent recycled tires just to be accurate, there is no way to recycle rubber back into tires just like "til now" has there been a way to recycle plastic. Recapped tires are huge in trucker world, and yet many of us want those banned as well. The only rule is you cant have them on the front, but in my case I would have rather had them on the fronts, my bread truck had a blow out with the rear tires and it is way more dangerous to have a rear blow out then a front blow out, and I ended up rolling and sliding for 100 yards on the freeway leaving bread all over the place, lol. Scary moment, I quite the day after and got a job with an outfit that has double axles and never had recaps again. I was so mad at the company, they risked my life to save a couple bucks. Sadly recaps are still on trucks everywhere as we speak. Not on that bread truck anymore, that company said they would never do that again.

Rubber recycling consists of using old rubber as filler, just as it has been with plastic, til this new technology only being done by michelins partner. This is the first known time they take plastics from being denatured back into something useful. I support the reuse of plastic, I just don't know why chose tires as the test case for all of the possibilites that wont put me and you are risk. When I was sliding across the freeway because of those recaps, I could have hit anyone. Just like the firestone debacle, when something goes wrong with tires everyone who travels is at risk.

It was something similar that caused the firestone debacle that killed 238 americans and injured 500 and that doesnt include other countries numbers. The cause, wokeism. They took 10% of the weight out of the tires why? Fuel economy. Dont take my word for it, read wiki.

ATX tires were originally developed in the late 1980s for use on Ford light trucks and SUVs and were first installed on Ford trucks and SUVs in 1991. The ATX II was designed to improve the ATX's ride and the fuel economy of the Explorer.[15] The Explorer had one of the lowest fuel economy ratings for any SUV under production at that time, due at least in part to Ford's decision to lower the tire pressure to 26 psi. Ford asked Firestone to reduce the weight of the ATX tires so that it could improve the fuel economy of the Explorer. Firestone created the ATX II by removing material from the tire which lowered the weight by 10%. Removing material from the ATX design also improved the profitability of the tire for Firestone.

So here we go again, a tire company not making the best possible tire but rather a company interested in attempting to use a social goal in their manufactoring, for better or for worse. In firestones case it was for the worst, I'm sure they "hired the best people" and knew what they were doing as well. LMAO??

 

[Dean2]

Burla- you asked for opinions, it was already very clear you are on the other side of the argument. No need to respond, and rebut, every post that disagrees with yours: and yes I know they aren't recycled tires, it was a shortcut so I didn't have to post a novel.

 

[Burla]

I guess i'm crazy, but I prefer my tire company to care about one thing above all else, make the best tire possible at a decent price. Now I applaud the sustainability thing 100%, planting more rubber trees should be a big duh. But recycling plastic into this application, I'm a pass on that, especially how this tech is three years old.

Cabrious

In April 2020 Carbios gained attention due to an article in Nature which explained how a hydrolase enzyme designed by Carbios enabled to recycle 90% of all PET plastic waste within 10 hours.[5][6] In the following a number of big companies including PepsiCo and Nestle became partners.[7][8]

Now I dont know when the idea to put this into tires was adopted, but I guess I am at a loss how you would have any longevity tests on it as it is this new. Sign up to be some of the first test cases, but some michelins next year.

 

[Burla]

Burla- you asked for opinions, it was already very clear you are on the other side of the argument. No need to respond, and rebut, every post that disagrees with yours: and yes I know they aren't recycled tires, it was a shortcut so I didn't have to post a novel.

oh sir, I will make my points without attacking anyone for their opinions. And I will post facts if that is ok. I respect everyones opinion on this, even those who dont respect mine, if there are any.

 

[joesstripclub]

Don't a lot of tires use polyester belts currently? Maybe they are just replacing that polyester with something recycled for the "recycled plastic" portion of the tire? Also totally possible this only starts in lower weight rated passenger tires until they can perfect it for higher weight rated tires.

 

[Burla]

I

Don't a lot of tires use polyester belts currently? Maybe they are just replacing that polyester with something recycled for the "recycled plastic" portion of the tire? Also totally possible this only starts in lower weight rated passenger tires until they can perfect it for higher weight rated tires.

I dont know maybe. If I am not mistaking they said 40% of the current plastic they use in tires is the goal for for 2030, 100% by whatever that future date is. Perhaps I should find some more info on how plastic is used in tires. I will take on that task, but call me crazy as a michelin customer I would expect the company to tell me this instead of the marketing I see. If you want to sell me on something, show me the science baby, the rest is noise. I will see if I can find something on this good point.

How It's Made: Car Tires

Stream Full Episodes of How It's Made:discovery+ ⺠https://www.discoveryplus.com/show/how-its-madeScience ⺠https://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/how-its-m...

youtu.be

It seams like Polyester is as important as rubber, it provides the stabilty.

Synthetic Rubber - Bet You Didn't Know it was a Plastic!​

So synthetic rubber portion and polyester portion would be my guess.


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[Wild one]

I got nothing to really add,but i wonder if they'll be trying this in their higher speed rated tires

 

[Redfisher1974]

Im cool with the recycled tires… But I draw the line at recycled toilet paper!
Way too ruff.

 

[Burla]

I got nothing to really add,but i wonder if they'll be trying this in their higher speed rated tires

Unless I mistake what 100% means, at some point even their race tires will be recycled yogurt cups.

I wonder why they ever used synthetic rubber in the first place, maybe poor rubber supply? Clearly, they can't use synthetic rubber to make the tire without layers of real rubber, at this point.

From da google...

• Synthetic rubber is used for 60% of the rubber used in the tire industry because it is produced from petroleum-derived hydrocarbons and has valuable properties for the manufacture of high-grip tires.
• Natural rubber is still necessary for the remaining 40% of rubber used in the tire industry.
• Both natural and synthetic rubber have high tear resistance, good low-temperature flexibility, and high tensile strength.
• Synthetic rubbers are more resistant to oil, certain chemicals and oxygen, have better aging and weathering characteristics, and good resilience over a wider temperature range.
• Natural rubber has good wear resistance, high elasticity, high resilience, and tensile strength. It has a good dynamic performance and low level of damping.

 

[Burla]

So bottom line to the other guys question, it surely appears plastics play a huge roll in the making of a tire. In fact it would be more correct to say when the plastic hits the road instead of when the rubber meets the road.

 

[RamDiver]

I

I dont know maybe. If I am not mistaking they said 40% of the current plastic they use in tires is the goal for for 2030, 100% by whatever that future date is. Perhaps I should find some more info on how plastic is used in tires. I will take on that task, but call me crazy as a michelin customer I would expect the company to tell me this instead of the marketing I see. If you want to sell me on something, show me the science baby, the rest is noise. I will see if I can find something on this good point.

How It's Made: Car Tires

Stream Full Episodes of How It's Made:discovery+ ⺠https://www.discoveryplus.com/show/how-its-madeScience ⺠https://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/how-its-m...

youtu.be

It seams like Polyester is as important as rubber, it provides the stabilty.

Synthetic Rubber - Bet You Didn't Know it was a Plastic!​

So synthetic rubber portion and polyester portion would be my guess.


.

With all that complexity during the manufacturing process, I'm shocked we don't pay more for tires. Shh, I never said that out loud.

That was a cool video. The video in the link below adds a few more details to the manufacturing process or at least lets you see them happening.

How a Tire is Built

Check out the complexity and components that make up a tire. It's a bit more complicated than most people think. Hopefully this video helps showcase the tech...

www.youtube.com

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