Brand New Hemi Already Chatty At 200 Miles!

[603photog]

Hi'ya, folks! Been a forum member for many years but haven't posted in at least a few years or more. I'm still driving the same 2012 Ram 1500 Big Horn that led me to this forum when I first bought her back in 2016. At that time, she had 42,000 miles and she's been (mostly) a great rig for me over the years. Back in 2023, I began noticing the infamous tick of doom so I parked her last February until I had time to deal with her. On teardown, I noted cylinders 7 and 3 had junk lifters and the cam lobes for those cylinders were ground down severely. This past November, I decided to pull the original engine (now with 185,000 miles) and drop in a reman unit.

To the point of this post, though: After less than 200 miles on the new engine, it's already developed a hell of a rap in the front of the block (YouTube link below). The new high-volume oil pump was properly primed at first start and all indications are that oil is flowing fine. Under stethescope, it sounds like it is directly behind the mounting bolt for the serpentine belt tensioner. It was so quiet at first that I thought it might just be the exhaust manifolds seating to the new heads with the new gaskets and stainless bolts that I installed. So I went back in and re-torqued the manifold bolts and gave them both a good looking over checking for any leaks. None noted. So I sort of just accepted the inevitable likelihood that the remanufacturer used cheap lifters and one or two of them probably didn't pump up properly after she was brought to life.

(Edit to add: Noise is nearly non-existent when cold and begins to get louder right around operating temperature where it is then very prominent.)

What's weird, though, is that, while the rapping sound does accelerate with the RPMs, it doesn't follow the same rate of deceleration as the RPMs. After winding it up and then letting off the throttle quickly, the rapping sound just kinda' flutters a bit before dying back down. In the old engine, when I had two failed lifters, the ticking sound very much followed the RPMs up and down. This is different, somehow.

Anyways, she's headed to the shop tomorrow for diagnosis but I wanted to share here for opinions and discussion. Needless to say, I'm very disappointed at this experience, so far. I'm intentionally not naming where I bought the engine from just yet until I know more. If it turns out to be something I caused (really not feeling like that's likely but, still), then I don't want to drag them through the mud unnecessarily. Obviously, depending on the shop's diagnosis, I will likely be seeking a warranty case with the vendor.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9px4fzwuMvA?si=4ScA5BmIo086wdv6



One of the two damaged lobes on the original engine's cam:

 

[Ken226]

I was trying to count the number of ticks in your video within a 10 second period of time using a stopwatch.

After several iterations, i got an average of about 50 ticks per 10 seconds. This comes to a frequency of about 300 ticks per minute.

Any bottom end knocks should have a frequency equal to your engine idle rpm, so bottom end should be about 550 to 600 knocks per minute, or double what I counted.

But the valve train rotates half as fast due to the crank/cam sprocket ratio. Each valve opens/closes every two crank revolutions. When you hear a tick or tap that is pretty much exactly half your idle RPM, while not 100% definitive, it is a good indicator of an issue with the valve train.


An exhaust leak tick can also be at half the engine rpm, if only 1 port leaks, but that doesn't sound like exhaust tick at all.

I would start by pulling the intake and valve covers and inspecting rockers for range of motion and the VVT solenoid for metal fragments.






Awhile back I contacted an engine rebuilder to ask what kind of lifers they used in their "reman" long block 5.7 Hemi. He said that they used OEM lifters that were "tested", which kinda surprised me since the engine was listed for about 3500$. But then I thought, "tested" that comment kinda seemed odd. I sent another message and asked if "tested" meant that that weren't new lifters, and also asked about the cam. He absolutely would not use the word "used", but in every single reply stated that they were "tested" OEM lifters and cam.


So, I took this to mean that if buying a "reman" engine, I could very well get a rebuilt engine with 200,000 miles on its lifters and cam! Like, when it comes to a lifter and cam, wtf does "tested" mean!


I would love to know who you bought that engine from and whether or not their lifters and cam were "tested".

I think that if/when I need to replace my engine, i will either rebuild it myself, or maybe buy a short block, and buy OEM lifters and cam to install myself. No-Way I want to fix a cam/lifter failure by replacing them with a worn out cam/lifters.

 

[Burla]

My guess this isn't lifter tick, I'm thinking exhaust tick with lesser chance at valves or even flex plate. This kind of thing happens even if everything is torqued right, the measurement of the quality of the shop is not that this happened but how they deal with it. If this is lifters, I think it would be a large problem like bent push rods, as opposed to benign. Which means it would not get better but worse until fixed.

 

[04fxdwgi]

That is definitely a mechanical, not accessory, noise that indicates valve train. If rod / piston, it would usually be a double rap.
The deceleration sound confirms it.

Bent push rod / failed lifter / broken valve spring / bent valve stem / bad cam.

This one is on the re-builder

 

[Burla]

Agreed, but who pays? Usually crates warranty the engine, but labor is on the shop? I think sometimes they will pay labor, certainly in this case they should.

 

[crackerjack1957]

it sounds like it is directly behind the mounting bolt for the serpentine belt tensioner


Maybe they damaged or forgot to tighten timing chain tensioner bolts

 

[603photog]

Thank you, all! I appreciate the responses and the time you each took to chime in. Basically sounds like everyone is where I'm at which is...who knows? We'll see what the diagnosis comes back with and I'll update when I know more from the shop.

Cheers!

 

[jws123]

Either a roller fell off of a lifter or thats a rod.

 

[J-13GTP]

Just out of curiosity have you tried taking the belt off and seeing if the noise continues.

I hate say it but it sounds more like a rod know to me.

 

[Yardbird]

With the double tapping upon acceleration, I would guess either rod bearing or wrist pin area, (cracked piston, ect), with me leaning toward the piston area.

 

[603photog]

So the shop won't be able to get it in for diagnosis until Wednesday, which is fine for my schedule. While I'm waiting, I'm curious if anyone has actual, real-world experience with the oil pressure readings with the HV oil pump installed? I'm getting about 62psi at cold idle, 52psi at hot idle, and about 58-59psi at hot highway driving (65mph, 1500rpm). Definitely a bit higher than my stock oil pump was on the previous engine but I don't know what these HVs are supposed to read.

Also, I got in touch with the vendor that I bought the engine from. Still not naming them yet because I want all the facts in-hand before I say anything positive or negative. But, I will at least say this - their warranty department was extremely friendly and helpful over the phone, made every promise to rectify the situation even if an entire new engine is needed, and only asked for a few basic things to verify the claim - video of sound, picture of oil pressure, etc. So, yes, the initial failure is very frustrating but now it's all about how they take care of the problem and, so far, so good!

 

[Ken226]

So the shop won't be able to get it in for diagnosis until Wednesday, which is fine for my schedule. While I'm waiting, I'm curious if anyone has actual, real-world experience with the oil pressure readings with the HV oil pump installed? I'm getting about 62psi at cold idle, 52psi at hot idle, and about 58-59psi at hot highway driving (65mph, 1500rpm). Definitely a bit higher than my stock oil pump was on the previous engine but I don't know what these HVs are supposed to read.

Also, I got in touch with the vendor that I bought the engine from. Still not naming them yet because I want all the facts in-hand before I say anything positive or negative. But, I will at least say this - their warranty department was extremely friendly and helpful over the phone, made every promise to rectify the situation even if an entire new engine is needed, and only asked for a few basic things to verify the claim - video of sound, picture of oil pressure, etc. So, yes, the initial failure is very frustrating but now it's all about how they take care of the problem and, so far, so good!

If you talk to the re-man engine vendor, ask them if the cam and lifters are new or used, OEM or aftermarket?

Especially if that turns out to be the issue.

Inquiring minds wanna know!

 

[04fxdwgi]

So the shop won't be able to get it in for diagnosis until Wednesday, which is fine for my schedule. While I'm waiting, I'm curious if anyone has actual, real-world experience with the oil pressure readings with the HV oil pump installed? I'm getting about 62psi at cold idle, 52psi at hot idle, and about 58-59psi at hot highway driving (65mph, 1500rpm). Definitely a bit higher than my stock oil pump was on the previous engine but I don't know what these HVs are supposed to read.

Also, I got in touch with the vendor that I bought the engine from. Still not naming them yet because I want all the facts in-hand before I say anything positive or negative. But, I will at least say this - their warranty department was extremely friendly and helpful over the phone, made every promise to rectify the situation even if an entire new engine is needed, and only asked for a few basic things to verify the claim - video of sound, picture of oil pressure, etc. So, yes, the initial failure is very frustrating but now it's all about how they take care of the problem and, so far, so good!

That's pretty much where the oil pressure is on my stock 100k mile hemi, with stock oil pump, give or take.

 

[Glick]

I also bought a reman and had an issue with it. The warranty people are very friendly but try to get money back is frustrating. I had a noise coming from the front of the engine near cyl 1. They ended up sending me another engine. The first engine turns out the rings broke in cyl 1. The second engine has intermittent cylinder reactivation failure even after replacing the mds solenoids. I to am very curious where you bought your reman.

 

[bigblock_doc]

Wrist pin.

 

[603photog]

Hey, folks. Sorry for the delay providing updates on this - been a crazy couple of months.

So, as some may have already guessed, the reman engine I bought came from Powertrain Products. So far, I'm less than impressed with the warranty response on what is a very, very clear assembly-related failure. There's literally nothing I could have done during the installation to cause this issue so I'm counting on them to do the right thing but, so far, they are dragging their feet. The reviews on Google, BBB, and multiple different automotive forums specifically regarding their warranty process are not flattering so I guess we'll see what happens.

In the meantime, as a result of this issue and the amount of time it is taking to resolve, I have been without my truck for a very long time and that had to come to an end. So I went out today and picked up a very nice 2020 Laramie. I have no idea what will become of the 2012 right now as her future depends on the response from PPI but I'll update this thread as I get more information in the coming weeks.

Thank you all again for chiming in and offering your thoughts! Here's the new rig. I had a pic from the day I bought the 2012 ten years ago so we re-created it with the 2020.

 

[Ken226]

Hey, folks. Sorry for the delay providing updates on this - been a crazy couple of months.

So, as some may have already guessed, the reman engine I bought came from Powertrain Products. So far, I'm less than impressed with the warranty response on what is a very, very clear assembly-related failure. There's literally nothing I could have done during the installation to cause this issue so I'm counting on them to do the right thing but, so far, they are dragging their feet. The reviews on Google, BBB, and multiple different automotive forums specifically regarding their warranty process are not flattering so I guess we'll see what happens.

In the meantime, as a result of this issue and the amount of time it is taking to resolve, I have been without my truck for a very long time and that had to come to an end. So I went out today and picked up a very nice 2020 Laramie. I have no idea what will become of the 2012 right now as her future depends on the response from PPI but I'll update this thread as I get more information in the coming weeks.

Thank you all again for chiming in and offering your thoughts! Here's the new rig. I had a pic from the day I bought the 2012 ten years ago so we re-created it with the 2020.

View attachment 562394

View attachment 562395

So, they don't know what was wrong with the rebuilt engine?

 

[Sherman Bird]

Hi'ya, folks! Been a forum member for many years but haven't posted in at least a few years or more. I'm still driving the same 2012 Ram 1500 Big Horn that led me to this forum when I first bought her back in 2016. At that time, she had 42,000 miles and she's been (mostly) a great rig for me over the years. Back in 2023, I began noticing the infamous tick of doom so I parked her last February until I had time to deal with her. On teardown, I noted cylinders 7 and 3 had junk lifters and the cam lobes for those cylinders were ground down severely. This past November, I decided to pull the original engine (now with 185,000 miles) and drop in a reman unit.

To the point of this post, though: After less than 200 miles on the new engine, it's already developed a hell of a rap in the front of the block (YouTube link below). The new high-volume oil pump was properly primed at first start and all indications are that oil is flowing fine. Under stethescope, it sounds like it is directly behind the mounting bolt for the serpentine belt tensioner. It was so quiet at first that I thought it might just be the exhaust manifolds seating to the new heads with the new gaskets and stainless bolts that I installed. So I went back in and re-torqued the manifold bolts and gave them both a good looking over checking for any leaks. None noted. So I sort of just accepted the inevitable likelihood that the remanufacturer used cheap lifters and one or two of them probably didn't pump up properly after she was brought to life.

(Edit to add: Noise is nearly non-existent when cold and begins to get louder right around operating temperature where it is then very prominent.)

What's weird, though, is that, while the rapping sound does accelerate with the RPMs, it doesn't follow the same rate of deceleration as the RPMs. After winding it up and then letting off the throttle quickly, the rapping sound just kinda' flutters a bit before dying back down. In the old engine, when I had two failed lifters, the ticking sound very much followed the RPMs up and down. This is different, somehow.

Anyways, she's headed to the shop tomorrow for diagnosis but I wanted to share here for opinions and discussion. Needless to say, I'm very disappointed at this experience, so far. I'm intentionally not naming where I bought the engine from just yet until I know more. If it turns out to be something I caused (really not feeling like that's likely but, still), then I don't want to drag them through the mud unnecessarily. Obviously, depending on the shop's diagnosis, I will likely be seeking a warranty case with the vendor.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9px4fzwuMvA?si=4ScA5BmIo086wdv6

View attachment 559532

One of the two damaged lobes on the original engine's cam:

View attachment 559533

So, have you reached out to the rebuilder? I KNOW there is a warranty. Is it Jasper? If so, they have always been great working with me in resolving warranty issues. (I'm a professional installer). If it is some other reman company, communicate ASAP and get a claim going! Even IF it turns the finger onto you, no one can say that you were tardy in letting them know! good luck!

 

[603photog]

So, have you reached out to the rebuilder? I KNOW there is a warranty. Is it Jasper? If so, they have always been great working with me in resolving warranty issues. (I'm a professional installer). If it is some other reman company, communicate ASAP and get a claim going! Even IF it turns the finger onto you, no one can say that you were tardy in letting them know! good luck!

Hi. See my last post, above.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Hi. See my last post, above.

You say that you're going to have a shop look at it, THEN present the findings to the rebuilder. The Engine rebuilder I use doesn't allow for that; they just send out a whole new engine ONCE. By disassembling the original engine, in my particular case, you'd void the coverage.... so, I would reach out to the rebuilder FIRST and let THEM refer you to having the engine torn down, otherwise, you might (read likely) will get stuck with charges.