Engine oil

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Andi

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2014
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5.7 Hemi
I know this have been talked about over and over but i'm really having a hard time deciding.

My warrenty now over, I want to do my own oil change, and debating between the 5w20 or 5w30. Also in a perfect world I woul like to run Redline oil, but beeing in Canada, it is really expensif for me to get. I'm debating between Mobil 1 and Penzoil Platinum witch I can get at good price.

So Mobil 1 or PP and 5w20 or 5w30

Thanks guys!
I stay with the 5W-20 as thats what Dodge wants you to use. There's really tiny oil holes in your crank and changing weights may not be a great Idea. In my opinion, Mobil 1 is the best option because its at the top of all tests and can easily be found for purchase. Red Line is great, but often harder to find and much more expensive. Contrary to what some are saying on this post. Theres nothing more important then the choice of oil you use. No engine, no truck. Using what ever anyone has available will have you wondering someday why your engine didnt last as long as you thought?
 

Burla

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Welcome to the forum, lots of oil talk here, read the redline thread in my sig if you want to know why people spend the money, 90% of people who try it have their hemi tick better, and it's been this way for a almost decade. If you like to discuss oil, there is a synthetic oil thread, and no doubt m1 is good stuff, and the second most popular oil here behind pennzoil.
 

Wild one

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QUOTE="Andi, post: 2211890, member: 83411"]I stay with the 5W-20 as thats what Dodge wants you to use. There's really tiny oil holes in your crank and changing weights may not be a great Idea. In my opinion, Mobil 1 is the best option because its at the top of all tests and can easily be found for purchase. Red Line is great, but often harder to find and much more expensive. Contrary to what some are saying on this post. Theres nothing more important then the choice of oil you use. No engine, no truck. Using what ever anyone has available will have you wondering someday why your engine didnt last as long as you thought?[/QUOTE]

FYI for you : the manual transmission equipped 5.7 Challengers and most of the 5.7 equipped Heavy duty trucks call for 5W-30,and if you have one of the older 700 page printed owners manuals,they tell you,you can use 5W-30 if 5W-20 meeting Chryslers MS spec isn't available.Do a search on here and you'll find the page from the printed manual already posted
 

Trevor60

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2017
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5.7 Hemi
I would skip the Platinum and go to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. It goes on sale at Canadian Tire all the time. Whenever I am there I check to see if it is on sale whether I need it or not. Quaker State Ultimate Durability is also on sale often. They also throw the Fram Ultra XG2 oil filters on sale here and there.

I run 5 PUP 5W30 and 2 PUP 0W40 year round. If you park outside in sub zero temps you may want to run a 0W30 as suggested but that is your call.

This... after reading the mega thread on oil and checking availability i selected (PUP) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. Canadian tire has multiple sales a year a quick check online will let you know. I still run 5w20 under warranty and have no complaints.

With premium oil you need to get a proper filter Royal Purple 10-48 is a synthetic meshed filter that works better then paper based. Amazon.ca carries them... but i see they have jacked the price so you may want to look for other options.
edit
found an alternative synthetic filter WIX XP 57060xp (please confirm proper filter size)
 
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Sherman Bird

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I have a 5.7, manual calls for 5w20, but i know people on going with 5w30 that's were i'm confused...

Maybe this will help: Auto manufacturers have research and durability aspects of the entire picture of what is right for their product, backed by billions of dollars. If you put 5W30 in a KIA that specifies 5W20, the check engine light is likely to come on with a DTC for cam actuator malfunctions. When I was a technician at Ford, the lotus-based 4 cylinder twin cam engines that were in the Escorts would stop running entirely with incorrect oil filter (think valve) and incorrect weight oil when a DIY'er had changed his/her own oil. The check engine light would be on with a DTC for cam/crank out of synch. The fix was an oil change with Motorcraft filter, correct oil, and a lot of cranking to get the correct oil to the cam actuator passages.

Bottom line: Many, many entities out there sell products to "improve" your truck, car, SUV, or what ever. These people do not have access to the kind of research and durability testing available to FCA, GM, Ford, et.al. Many products merely lighten your pocketbook and do nothing for your vehicle's longevity.

Put the oil that is called for in your owner's manual in your crankcase.... Do this in spite of some "Hawker" touting synthetics, higher viscosity, or better implied voo-doo results. The manufacturer designed the thing, They did millions of dollars worth of prototype testing in different parts of the world to emulate extremes of weather related temps. Ford uses a part of Death Valley for product testing. That's the hottest place on Earth. The Eco-Tech motor developed by Ford was purposely abuse for 200,000 miles in testing. It went through Baja, drag racing, endurance racing, extreme cold/heat field tests and now it is in the GT40 as well as trucks.... and I'm quite certain FCA and all the others performs these types of durability testing.
 

crackerjack1957

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2014 Sport 1500 CC 4x4
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Hemi 5.7...65RFE...4.56
Simply put it's a temperature/climate thing..........the sole purpose of different weight oils.
My Ram will run either 5w-20 or 5w-30 with no codes thrown.
Rarely gets below 20F in my state in the winter months & it's usually above freezing by noon.

The difference between 5W-30 and 5W-20 motor oil
The main difference between 5W-30 and 5W-20 motor oil is that the latter is less viscous (or thick). When used in a vehicle's engine, 5W-20 oil creates less friction due to its thinner viscosity, meaning it causes less drag across engine parts like the crankshaft, valvetrain, and pistons. This can provide a slight bump in fuel efficiency.

The thinner nature of 5W-20 oil also allows the oil pump to move it from the oil pan to the rest of the engine more easily. This makes 5W-20 preferable for very cold climates, when having thinner oil that can flow easily on start-up is important. Where 5W-30 comes into play is in hotter climates where thin oil tends to break down under higher temperatures. This translates into the strength of the 5W-30 oil keeping it from breaking down as quickly as the 5W-20 oil, providing better overall engine part protection.
 
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CMV157

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KCMO
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Maybe this will help: Auto manufacturers have research and durability aspects of the entire picture of what is right for their product, backed by billions of dollars. If you put 5W30 in a KIA that specifies 5W20, the check engine light is likely to come on with a DTC for cam actuator malfunctions. When I was a technician at Ford, the lotus-based 4 cylinder twin cam engines that were in the Escorts would stop running entirely with incorrect oil filter (think valve) and incorrect weight oil when a DIY'er had changed his/her own oil. The check engine light would be on with a DTC for cam/crank out of synch. The fix was an oil change with Motorcraft filter, correct oil, and a lot of cranking to get the correct oil to the cam actuator passages.

Bottom line: Many, many entities out there sell products to "improve" your truck, car, SUV, or what ever. These people do not have access to the kind of research and durability testing available to FCA, GM, Ford, et.al. Many products merely lighten your pocketbook and do nothing for your vehicle's longevity.

Put the oil that is called for in your owner's manual in your crankcase.... Do this in spite of some "Hawker" touting synthetics, higher viscosity, or better implied voo-doo results. The manufacturer designed the thing, They did millions of dollars worth of prototype testing in different parts of the world to emulate extremes of weather related temps. Ford uses a part of Death Valley for product testing. That's the hottest place on Earth. The Eco-Tech motor developed by Ford was purposely abuse for 200,000 miles in testing. It went through Baja, drag racing, endurance racing, extreme cold/heat field tests and now it is in the GT40 as well as trucks.... and I'm quite certain FCA and all the others performs these types of durability testing.

Largely I agree with you, and although I fall into the camp of over analysing this stuff, it's probably unnecessary. But Longevity of the motor is just one aspect manufacturers consider. They must also factor in a bunch of EPA/government regulations when coming up with their recommended oil. Things like fuel economy, exhaust emissions, API, etc... This eliminates their ability to even consider some of the best oils on the market. Just something to consider.
 

Octane

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I use whatever the heck they use at the oil change place. For me there are more important things to worry about. Different places use different color rags to clean up afterwards. I'm sure there are high-tech microfiber cloths they could use instead of cheap shop rags. Maybe I should worry about that too.

Pick something, stick with it, and move on. Your choice of oil is far less important than you think it is.
This statement is Ram world blasphemy! Everyone knows that the oil to use is the one I use.....cause you cant lose with the stuff I use! I even changed my oil at 2:00 am this morning during a light rain in 50° weather! Lol
 

gfh77665

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In general, a 5-30 in TX, FL, etc. will be thinner than an 5-20 in MN, MT or Canada at most times.

Forget CAFE, use your intellect and choose what fits your climate the best.
 

Burla

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Maybe this will help: Auto manufacturers have research and durability aspects of the entire picture of what is right for their product, backed by billions of dollars.

So you believe they spend billions of dollars to make their equipment outlast the owner because that is what is in their best interest? Where many of us believe the opposite, that they use engineers to build equipment that is harder and harder to service and tech like pre heated fluids that will lead to lower service life. Why was it necessary to make transmissions that you cant even check the level of? Transmissions that cost 800-1200 just fr a fluid change? MDS systems that shut down cylinders but yet send double the gas to the cylinders that are firing? Refuse to address hemi tick and cam failures because most of those happen right as the truck leaves warranty. Kind of the perfect storm? for auto manu's?

Because if vehicles last as long as they should, auto manufacturers will go out of business. I'd bet good money they spend a ton of time figuring out how to sell more vehicles not less. Very likely the "friendly" leases that have exploded over the last decade or two is an example.
 

Octane

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Oh! For the simple glory days of leaded gas, straight 30 motor oil and ignition breaker points.But all mine lasted as long as they were needed...and the radio and interior lights shut off when they should. Lol
 

JayLeonard

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Has anyone ever tried to build a pre-oil system?
It would only need to be activated for a couple of seconds at start up.
I know some have done this on boats. I didn't find anything here via a search.
 

Dookie

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This thread is comical....use what's recommended in your manual and sleep well.
Holy Sheet, the oil debate is for reals...
 

boblonben

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Depends on the brand, so one way to get the 0 rating is to add pao, and one way would be to add vii's, so stay in grade specs hint that considerable amount of pao is used in some 0 winter rated oils, especially various m1 offerings. So bottom line, some 0w30's only carry an upside, because most of the 5 winter rated oils don't bother with stay in grade specing, or when they do it is easy to stay in grade because of the swing between winter rating and weight. In cold places 0w30 will flow much better than 5w30 at start up, but flow the same at operating temp, look up cSt's of both oils you will see.

Look at chart, pao second line, that base oil doesn't need gimmicks in the base oil to flow in the cold, and has better heat properties as well. So less vii's, less pour point depressants needed because they naturally flow in colder temps. Only downside is cost.

You see mineral oils can operate at low temp, but another fact is these oils will flow thinner at cold temps, which doesnt mean it flows thin, even when they are cold they are thick, just less thick then mineral.

7044a_base-oil-types-temperature-range_extra_large.jpg
Fords have faulty lug also, more actually. on oils pick one, use it, either are fine.
 

tap4154

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So you believe they spend billions of dollars to make their equipment outlast the owner because that is what is in their best interest? Where many of us believe the opposite, that they use engineers to build equipment that is harder and harder to service and tech like pre heated fluids that will lead to lower service life. Why was it necessary to make transmissions that you cant even check the level of? Transmissions that cost 800-1200 just fr a fluid change? MDS systems that shut down cylinders but yet send double the gas to the cylinders that are firing? Refuse to address hemi tick and cam failures because most of those happen right as the truck leaves warranty. Kind of the perfect storm? for auto manu's?

Because if vehicles last as long as they should, auto manufacturers will go out of business. I'd bet good money they spend a ton of time figuring out how to sell more vehicles not less. Very likely the "friendly" leases that have exploded over the last decade or two is an example.

With the advances in fluids, and with the tendency for the people get sold on upsell gimmicks like flushes etc at Jiffy Lubes, I can understand why some new transmissions are sealed, with no dipstick. Reduces the chance of contaminants, and putting the wrong fluids in as well.

That said, I've been working in remodeling and installing built-in appliances for 35 years, and once had a customer who told me she had a relative whose job was to build a weak link into the microwaves so they would fail after a certain amount of years. I tend to believe her because I see old microwaves 35-40 years old that still work, yet the new ones usually go out after 5 to 10 years. And they're considered disposable, it's usually not worth it to repair them.

But hard to imagine auto manufacturers would want to see their vehicles get a reputation of failing early. So I'm not sure if that would translate to the auto industry. I mean look at Toyota, almost anyone you talk to will tell you how reliable and long-lasting they are, and that's one reason they sell for a premium.
 

bobeast

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Let's see if we can get this oil thread to grow to 1400+ pages like one of the others.
 

Dookie

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I've been in my profession 30+ years. I see things that are designed to fail. If/when I do the design, I design to live a very long life with minimal maintenance. When competing with others that undersize and add external cooling in order to reduce bid proposals, I have to point those things out in order for the end-user to understand what they are getting.
Money is the root cause of when things are designed to fail.
I have lost bids because of this but usually end up getting a call from the end-user down the road when things aren't working out as planned. Dealing with a dual-drive twin 600hp situation right now...fluid couplings, motor rotor bar cracks and harmonics, high speed bearing failure on the gearbox....they have had 9 failures in all of 3 years.
I bid the initial proposal with the same size motors but two sizes larger gearboxes frame size w/HS cooling fans and was much more expensive. Pay now or pay later....usually the later is more expensive. When you have a ship at dock, demerge get's REAL expensive REAL quick..think 50k/hour.

Oh yea...Oil...I use Wix XD filter and whatever 5W20 synthetic is on sale.
 

Wild one

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Has anyone ever tried to build a pre-oil system?
It would only need to be activated for a couple of seconds at start up.
I know some have done this on boats. I didn't find anything here via a search.

Thought about it,but that's as far as I've got,lol. Also thought about adding my own external tranny cooler for my 8 speed,using fittings plumbed into my PPE tranny pan and a pony pump with filter and high flow thermostat and stand alone tranny cooler,it's another one that's in the back of my mind,but that's as far as both have progressed.Did look into pony pumps and high flow thermostats though,so in that respect the stand alone tranny cooler has progressed slightly farther,lol
 

Sherman Bird

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With the advances in fluids, and with the tendency for the people get sold on upsell gimmicks like flushes etc at Jiffy Lubes, I can understand why some new transmissions are sealed, with no dipstick. Reduces the chance of contaminants, and putting the wrong fluids in as well.

That said, I've been working in remodeling and installing built-in appliances for 35 years, and once had a customer who told me she had a relative whose job was to build a weak link into the microwaves so they would fail after a certain amount of years. I tend to believe her because I see old microwaves 35-40 years old that still work, yet the new ones usually go out after 5 to 10 years. And they're considered disposable, it's usually not worth it to repair them.

But hard to imagine auto manufacturers would want to see their vehicles get a reputation of failing early. So I'm not sure if that would translate to the auto industry. I mean look at Toyota, almost anyone you talk to will tell you how reliable and long-lasting they are, and that's one reason they sell for a premium.

I specialized in automatic transmissions for GM and Ford for s total combined 27 years. There is a solid REASON for no dipstick transmissions.... and here it is:

Transmission fluid is a 7.5W/15W oil designed specifically for transmission use because the additives must address a balance of lubricating ability with a friction coefficient! It grows quite a bit when it gets hot. The dipsticks show a cold level on one side and a hot level on the other..... some on the same side.

Many, many times, customers who meant well would check the level of their trans fluid when it was cold, and barely any fluid showed on the dipstick, even though it was in proper cold range, and add a couple of quarts to make the fluid at the level of the hot full mark. When the fluid got hot, it rose in level high enough to get into the rotating mass of the drums and planetaries. The fluid would get beaten like it was in a blender and become aerated. Guess what? Air is compressible, fluid is not! Introducing aerated fluid into the transmission burns out the clutch plates and bands!

I cannot count the number of times a DIY'er had his truck/car towed in with a bar-b-que'd transmission that had been overfilled! It was prolific, and the manufacturers were tired of warrantying customer ignorance. To cure the problem, dipsticks were eliminated!

Manufacturers DO want repeat business..... but they also know that if a vehicle brand or model gets a bad rap, it's curtains! Remember the exploding Pintos? I was at Ford in those days. I personally installed many recall kits to fix the problem which Lee Iacocca knew about before the model ever saw production, but chose to do nothing. I personally owned 3 Pintos over the years and they were very good, dependable cars..... but their reputation was smeared for good.

There is NO SUCH THING as lifetime anything... especially fluids that have additive that break down from thermal extremes and contaminants finding their way into. Flushing transmissions, crankcases, cooling systems, hydraulic power steering.... etc. is a necessary thing... just not as often as some would tout. With the new GDI engines, motor oil had to be modified from a calcium based anti sludge additive to a nitrogen based one.... API rating for this oil is SN+. The build up of carbon on the valves and carbon on fuel injectors do make flushes mandatory..... So there is a place for them, just not as a basis to flush a consumer's wallet!
 
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