Factory ZF 8 speed transmission fill procedure after doing a tranny service

[Hemi395]

After digging around I have found out that the pre-2016 Mopar unicorn fluid is glorified semi-synthetic Dex III fluid made by Shell, and the 2016+ fluid is Mobilfuid LT (glorified universal tractor and PTO fluid). You did your transfer case a huge favor by going with Red Line C+ ATF. Another good option is Red Line D4 + 4 oz. Lubegard Plat.ATF, Red Line High Temp ATF + Lubegard and AMSOIL MV ATF + Lubegard. Why add Lubegard? For the SYNERGOL and friction modifiers for low-speed clutch engagement, not to mention the antioxidants. I checked with Lubegard and it's mixable with all of the above for the BW44-44 transfer case. They said that so is ATF+ and that it's an excellent choice. Honorable mentions are Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, Castrol Transmax ATF+4, and Valvoline ATF+4, all mixed with Lubegard. I hope this helps someone who's looking for BW44-44 fluid alternatives.

Also, they came up with the +2016 Mopar fluid for the BW44-44 in 2018, so that should tell you all you need to know about the fluid change. Nothing changed with the transfer case, rather they wanted to find a solution for the overheating transfer cases when heavily used in 4x4 mode.

Thats some GREAT info there thank you!!

 

[Burla]

After digging around I have found out that the pre-2016 Mopar unicorn fluid is glorified semi-synthetic Dex III fluid made by Shell, and the 2016+ fluid is Mobilfuid LT (glorified universal tractor and PTO fluid). You did your transfer case a huge favor by going with Red Line C+ ATF. Another good option is Red Line D4 + 4 oz. Lubegard Plat.ATF, Red Line High Temp ATF + Lubegard and AMSOIL MV ATF + Lubegard. Why add Lubegard? For the SYNERGOL and friction modifiers for low-speed clutch engagement, not to mention the antioxidants. I checked with Lubegard and it's mixable with all of the above for the BW44-44 transfer case. They said that so is ATF+ and that it's an excellent choice. Honorable mentions are Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, Castrol Transmax ATF+4, and Valvoline ATF+4, all mixed with Lubegard. I hope this helps someone who's looking for BW44-44 fluid alternatives.

Also, they came up with the +2016 Mopar fluid for the BW44-44 in 2018, so that should tell you all you need to know about the fluid change. Nothing changed with the transfer case, rather they wanted to find a solution for the overheating transfer cases when heavily used in 4x4 mode.

yeah, just make sure to use the right lubegard, you do not want moly in tranny.

 

[Rod Knock]

yeah, just make sure to use the right lubegard, you do not want moly in tranny.

If I had to guess, that would make the transmission start slipping once it heats up.

This is the Lubegard I was talking about:



I don't recommend using the "Lubegard Highly Friction Modified ATF (HFM-ATF) Supplement" as that is meant to turn Dexron III fluid into ATF+4. The red bottle Lubegard product is just an additive booster.

 

[Rod Knock]

@Burla @Hemi395 @Wild one

Do you guys know how to calculate a fill & drain type transmission flush? How many times do I need to fill and drain it before all of the old fluid is out?

I am getting the PPE pan, and I'd like to decide if I go to AMSOIL MV ATL (full fluid replacement) or if I should get 7 quarts of Mopar/Lifeguard 8 (it's $126 right now on Amazon) and call it a day, and maybe throw 19 oz. of Lubegard Platinum ATF in there for good measure. What do you guys think?

 

[Wild one]

@Burla @Hemi395 @Wild one

Do you guys know how to calculate a fill & drain type transmission flush? How many times do I need to fill and drain it before all of the old fluid is out?

I am getting the PPE pan, and I'd like to decide if I go to AMSOIL MV ATL (full fluid replacement) or if I should get 7 quarts of Mopar/Lifeguard 8 (it's $126 right now on Amazon) and call it a day, and maybe throw 19 oz. of Lubegard Platinum ATF in there for good measure. What do you guys think?

It would take several drain and fills to get all the old fluid out,unless you pull the tranny then remove the convertor, drain and fill it as it's own seperate entity,and disconnect the cooler lines at the tranny and blow it out on it's own.There'll always be some old fluid mixed back in,even after probably 3 drain/fills if you don't do the convertor and cooler/lines by themselves.I'm curious how the Lubeguard would work with the ZF fluid,so if you go that way,keep us updated on the mix.
Is your truck stock? I'm curious how Amsoil / Redline or the lubeguard idea pan out behind something that's making some torque,as i'm a little gunshy to try them out in my truck,damn 8 speeds aren't cheap,and i've already bought one,lol.

 

[Burla]

Do your amsoil and follow zf procedures, they will mix fine, I wouldn't try and think about mixing to try and get a certain % of new fluid, that is a losing proposition. I just service our transmission once a year and I know that is basically a 1/2 flush. The raw deal for the zf is that it is labor intensive where our vehicle it is easier to do transmission then engine oil. If the ppe has a drain plug you can be careful and do exact changes on future changes. I'd use a gallon jug with a large mouth if I could find a good one. Well that would be my strategy on this, there is no right answer.

amsoil is better then zf fluid, the pour points prove you will have better performance.

 

[Burla]

Look at pour points the amsoil is true pao performance and zf fluid is no better then maxlife. I really wonder why they didnt make a better oem fluid for this trans that is in need of good hot performance that true pao delivers. anyhow, redline and amsoil have you covered.

ZF Fluid

Viscosity at 100°C 5.6
Pour point -42°C

Maxlife multi-

Viscosity at 100°C 5.9
Pour Point -42c
Add a impressive VI at 163
Very decent fluid.

Redline d6-

Vis @ 100°C, CSt 6.3
Pour Point, °C -60
VI 163

Amsoil Multi

Vis @ 100, 6.3
Pour point, -65c
VI, 159

 

[Burla]

I'm not sure I'd be tossing in lubegard, I have used their products in transmission backed when used junky trans oils, but I don't see the benefit f adding that to amsoil. Some transmission oils are as good as it get's, if you look at tech sheets the additives are actually less quality base then amsoil or redline, so I'd save that for some other time, especially with the zf which seams to be finicky at times.

this is product info lubegard platinum

Viscosity at 40° C 60 cSt Viscosity at 100° C 10 cSt Flashpoint (COC) >400°F Pour Point -10°F Viscosity Index 150 Gravity, API 24

those are very mediocre, these products have their use, especially when temporary fixing a transmission, but I dont see the benefit to a fluid chnage with top oils. These are more for older trans with guys running old fluids, but since atf4 and zf are synthetic, the base oils just wont benefit from this generaally speaking.

 

[Rod Knock]

Thank you @Burla @Wild one and @Hemi395

After doing some budgeting and math, and research, I found a 7-quart pack of Mopar 8&9 Speed ATF (Lifeguard 8) on Amazon for $126 shipped. Considering that the PPE pan is $290 shipped, I will be a little over $400 for the transmission fluid change, so I can't afford to throw expensive ATF away just to "upgrade" it. I won't add any Lubegard to it per @Burla's advice. Lifeguard 8 fluid is made by Shell, which means that the additive pack is made by Infineum. It doesn't get any better than that. I believe that the only boutique manufacturer that has access to Infineum additives is AMSOIL. That's one of the reasons why AMSOIL is currently putting around 200ppm of Moly in their oils, because it's Trimer Moly, the best there is. In fact, beyond 80ppm Trimer Moly improves very little, but past 200ppm the improvement plateaus. That's why PUP 0W-40 has ~240 ppm. Infineum is co-owned by ExxonMobil and Shell, and BP also has access to their additives and collaborated on the research. I read a research paper from Infineum about Trimer Moly. Red Line, unfortunately, doesn't have it, that's why the huge amounts of Dimer Moly in their oils.

As far as the transfer case (mine is BW44-44) I have found the perfect fluid for it: Delvac 1 ATF. It's TES 295 & TES 468 Approved & Certified. It doesn't get any better than this as it's a Group IV & V ATF that is shear-stable and passes some really stringent industry tests. I know we're all enthusiasts here, but this stuff is actually better than both AMSOIL and Red Line. The original fluid recommended for these transfer cases was Shell Spirax S2 A389 (sold in a pretty Mopar bottle). In fact, Mopar even listed it in their MSDS, which I found after I spent hours on end figuring out what's in the magical bottles. Here is the MSDS: https://www.kwparts.com/media/1695/68049954ga_eng.pdf

TES 295 & TES 468 are above TES 389. Basically, TES 295 is currently Allison's go-to fluid spec for severe service and long drain interval, and Allison recommends using TES 295 in place of TES 389. I figured that in a transfer case shear stability (due to gears shearing the oil) and smooth clutch engagement is important. If it's good enough for busses and trucks, it should do well in the poor man's pickup truck, lol. I ordered a gallon of this stuff (you can only buy it by the gallon) from Amazon for $38. I also found the engineer that designed the specs for TES 389 and then TES 295, and he said that TES 295 is an improvement over TES 389 because it's designed to be shear-stable from the get-go, be used for long drain intervals under severe conditions, and prevent copper corrosion (electric transmissions and components). TES 389 is basically Dexron III - back when GM owned Allison they derived Dex III(H) from TES 389. Then TES 295 came along to supersede 389. TES 389 means mineral and synthetic blend, while TES 295 means full synthetic (no Group III base oils or viscosity improvers). A lot of GM/Chevy guys use this stuff in their transfer cases. You can in fact use any oil that has an official Allison certification (TES 295 or TES 389) in your BW44-44 or BW44-45 transfer case safely.

Here is a good BW44-44/45 fluid alternative (not as good as Delvac 1 ATF though): https://starfire1.com/full-synthetic-atf.php - Starfire Full Synthetic Multi Vehicle ATF.

I'm a bit torn on the gear oil. At the top of the food chain, above Red Line and AMSOIL, Castrol Syntrax (European) gear oil is the best of the best. The Syntrax Long Life 75W-90 has several heavy-duty approvals, a pour point of -54C and a flash point of 235C. Then the Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140 is similar, but also carries several ZF diff and axle approvals. It's expensive though. My second choice would be Valvoline Synthetic Gear Lube (it's actually better than Mobil 1). Are you guys using it, is it good? Mobil 1 gear lube is a weak sauce (low pour points, low flash points) because they don't want to compete with their own Delvac products. Unfortunately, Delvac 75W-140 is impossible to get in the US, and their 80W-140 is hard to get and a bit too thick for the RAM's rear diff. I like Valvoline because they actually meet Milspec (J2306) and that's good enough for me. I'm just curious if others have a good experience with it.

@Burla Lubegard is a consumer-facing additive manufacturer. You can't judge their additives like fully formulated oils/fluids. For example, when you see "Lubricating Oils/Used" on their MSDS, those oils will evaporate or burn off as soon as the operating temperature is reached. That's why it's also a bit of a gamble if you use their additives in significant quantities because you can end up short on the actual fluid. For example, I upgraded my oil filter to the larger one on the HEMI (PBL24651), so now I need 7.5 quarts to reach the full mark on the dipstick. Well, I put in 7 quarts of Mobil 1 0W-40 and 21~22 oz of Lubegard Bio-Tech. I never gave it a second thought and after I changed the oil my dad went with my mom on vacation to Florida with my truck. When he came back, a little over half a quart of oil was missing. Of course, the truck doesn't burn any oil. That was at ~2300 miles after the oil change. I topped off the oil by adding a little over half a quart. Now I'm at 6100 miles and I still don't need to add any oil. The engine is silky smooth and runs really well. That's how most Lubegard products work, but most people never realize it,. They are meant to only leave the additive behind. That's why Bio-Tech doesn't change the viscosity of the oil for example. Some of their additives like their Gear Supplement have like 30% PAO, I guess to compensate somewhat for that loss, because who rechecks their diff or transmission the next day after they fill it up and took a longer trip somewhere to heat it up?

Anyway, looking forward to your replies, especially on the gear oil. I'm looking to keep my truck for as long as possible and keep wear low. At the same time, I don't want to overspend on oil if I don't have to. I am not brand loyal, neither does it make me feel warm and fuzzy if I have all of the same brand name oil in my truck.

Finally, I want to bring this to your attention: both Red Line Oil and AMSOIL need to fix their recommendations on their websites and make them correctly, especially when it comes to transfer cases. For example, the correct oil for BW44-44/45 and BW48-11/12 is AMSOIL TORQUE DRIVE, not AMSOIL MULTI VEHICLE ATF. Oh, for the BW48-11/12
AMSOIL doesn't have a recommendation. If you put in certain vehicles, like the Hyundai Sonata 2021, their oil recommendations are completely wrong. For Red Line I cross referenced some Borg Warner cases used on the Kia Borego with full time 4x4 and got 75W80MTL as a recommendation. When checking the owner's manual, it clearly said Mobil Fluid LT. What Red Line should have recommended was Red Line D4 ATF. So be cautious and don't blindly follow what they recommend.

 

[Wild one]

Look at pour points the amsoil is true pao performance and zf fluid is no better then maxlife. I really wonder why they didnt make a better oem fluid for this trans that is in need of good hot performance that true pao delivers. anyhow, redline and amsoil have you covered.

ZF Fluid

Viscosity at 100°C 5.6
Pour point -42°C

Maxlife multi-

Viscosity at 100°C 5.9
Pour Point -42c
Add a impressive VI at 163
Very decent fluid.

Redline d6-

Vis @ 100°C, CSt 6.3
Pour Point, °C -60
VI 163

Amsoil Multi

Vis @ 100, 6.3
Pour point, -65c
VI, 159

I still go back to the high horse tuners seeing slip once they're putting a bunch of power to the tranny,with aftermarket fluids,which makes me wonder if the aftermarket fluids might be to good/slippery. Wished some of the high horse guys were experimenting with Redline or Amsoil on a long term basis.The specs on both look good,but i'm a little gunshy to put either in my 8 speed and be a guinea pig.

 

[Rod Knock]

I still go back to the high horse tuners seeing slip once they're putting a bunch of power to the tranny,with aftermarket fluids,which makes me wonder if the aftermarket fluids might be to good/slippery. Wished some of the high horse guys were experimenting with Redline or Amsoil on a long term basis.The specs on both look good,but i'm a little gunshy to put either in my 8 speed and be a guinea pig.

When I have a minute, I will correct some inaccuracies in my long post (above) about the TES-389 and TES-295 spec. Still, any approved TES-295 or TES-389 fluid can be used in the BW44-40/44/45 transfer cases. TES-295 is a full synthetic (PAO), while TES-389 is mineral oil (Group II + additives). The only difference between them is the allowed drain interval. Oh, and TES-389 came out after GM stopped licensing Dexron III(H). FCA used a TES-389 fluid because it was the only way to have quality assurance for their transfer case fluid. They could have used TES-295, but why not save a buck, right?

Red Line is for enthusiasts, and AMSOIL is premium mainstream. Red Line plays fast and loose with their recommendations, and sometimes they are totally clueless about what they are talking about, like when I asked for a fluid recommendation for my BW44-44 transfer case. AMSOIL is very good at reverse engineering and does some real testing. Neither of these two can compete or even stand up to the heavyweights in the industry. They have some niche products that work well, but I wouldn't use either in anything that my livelihood depended on. For example, neither of the two is very good at making heavy-duty Diesel oils or transmission fluids for the trucking industry.

Personally, I don't feel like experimenting with what I consider a costly vehicle. By any standards, I qualify as poor. That is why I look for approvals and certifications when I pick any fluids I put into my vehicles. I don't care so much for "Recommended For" or "Meets and Exceeds" as I care for "Approved For" or "Licensed For", even when those approvals are not specifically for my vehicle but the standards and specifications are openly available. They exceed my vehicle's requirements (e.g., I'm using Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 in my HEMI).

ZF does not provide a formal approval and licensing process for their Lifeguard 8 fluid, as they want to be the only supplier. They partnered up with Shell and Infineum supplies the additive package. Honestly, it doesn't get any better than this. Having done the research that I did over the past few days, I will definitively use Lifeguard 8 for my tranny fluid change. If I couldn't get it, my only other choice would be AMSOIL MV ATL, but then I would do a complete flush.

The amount of friction modifier, its quality and the viscosity of the fluid are very important. Too much friction modifier and you get slippage + shudder, too little and you get harsh shifts. Too much viscosity and you get slow shifts, too little and your transmission wears out quickly.

Lastly, the recommended ZF change interval is 80,000km or 50,000 miles (without a full flush, just pan+filter + fluid), and that's for something like a sedan or SUV. Pickup trucks that tow and are being worked should do it more often. That's why you see black Lifeguard 8 fluid coming out at 60K ~ 100K.

 

[MRFREEZE57]

we had a snow storm here last week and had to use a lot of 4WD, my 44-44 TC worked flawlessly with the Redline C+, have done 2 drain and fills in the transmission with the Redline D6 and plan on doing one more especially that the PPE pan drain plug is so easily accessible. just my opinion I would not waste my money on the expensive Mopar fluids when there are other high quality lubes that are just as good or many times better than the OEM stuff and at a much lesser cost.

 

[Wild one]

we had a snow storm here last week and had to use a lot of 4WD, my 44-44 TC worked flawlessly with the Redline C+, have done 2 drain and fills in the transmission with the Redline D6 and plan on doing one more especially that the PPE pan drain plug is so easily accessible. just my opinion I would not waste my money on the expensive Mopar fluids when there are other high quality lubes that are just as good or many times better than the OEM stuff and at a much lesser cost.

That still doesn't explain the issue of slip once you start putting some power to the tranny using aftermarket fluids.In a stock truck the aftermarket fluids are probably okay to use,but in something making some power the aftermarket fluids might not be the way to go.My truck for example puts down 572 lb-ft at 3200 rpm at the rear tires,and runs as quick as most Hellcats at the dragstrip,and with it i'm a little leary of the after market fluids. Even with a mild 20% correction factor for it being a 4X4,it's putting out roughly 685 lb-ft at the crank,which far exceeds the 8HP70's 516 lb-ft crank rating. To my knowledge neither Amsoil or Redline fluids have really been embraced in the hi-po end of things,in a stock setting they are probably acceptable though

 

[Rod Knock]

That still doesn't explain the issue of slip once you start putting some power to the tranny using aftermarket fluids.In a stock truck the aftermarket fluids are probably okay to use,but in something making some power the aftermarket fluids might not be the way to go.My truck for example puts down 572 lb-ft at 3200 rpm at the rear tires,and runs as quick as most Hellcats at the dragstrip,and with it i'm a little leary of the after market fluids. Even with a mild 20% correction factor for it being a 4X4,it's putting out roughly 685 lb-ft at the crank,which far exceeds the 8HP70's 516 lb-ft crank rating. To my knowledge neither Amsoil or Redline fluids have been really embraced in the hi-po end of things,in a stock setting they are probably acceptable though

As you have probably seen from my previous posts, I like to research the fluid I use. I am also looking for adequate fluids for our two Hyundai vehicles and so far AMSOIL MV ATL seems the most suitable option for them. Unlike ZF Lifeguard, the Hyundai SP4 fluids are all over the place, ranging from 5.4 to 5.8 cSt, and their composition ranges from mineral to semi-synthetic. They're kind of a Dexron VI imitation, but without the strict specs. I'm talking about stuff like SK SP4, Michang SP4, and the other fluids mentioned in the owner's manual. Even Mopar sells an SP4-M fluid for the vehicles they sell with Hyundai transmissions. So aftermarket might not be bad for every transmission, it depends I guess. The ZF 8HP transmissions are tight tolerance and need a precisely designed fluid I suppose.

Can you please provide some examples where tuned vehicles running Red Line D6 or AMSOIL MV ATL in their ZF8 transmissions caused them to slip? I'm putting together a detailed guide for RAM 1500 owners about the fluids thy should and shouldn't use.

we had a snow storm here last week and had to use a lot of 4WD, my 44-44 TC worked flawlessly with the Redline C+, have done 2 drains and fills in the transmission with the Redline D6 and plan on doing one more especially that the PPE pan drain plug is so easily accessible. just my opinion I would not waste my money on the expensive Mopar fluids when there are other high-quality lubes that are just as good or many times better than the OEM stuff and at a much lesser cost.

Considering that after using TES-389 fluid for the BW44-44 transfer case, they moved to glorified low viscosity tractor fluid because it was cheaper I guess, pretty much anything works in that transfer case. If anything, it needs less friction modifier, not more. The correct fluid from Red Line would be their D4 ATF though.

 

[Wild one]

Can you please provide some examples where tuned vehicles running Red Line D6 or AMSOIL MV ATL in their ZF8 transmissions caused them to slip? I'm putting together a detailed guide for RAM 1500 owners about the fluids thy should and shouldn't use.

The high end tuner guys are the ones reporting the slip issues,apparently input and output shaft speeds don't correlate once you start getting above the 600 horse or 600lb-ft mark with some of the after market fluids. To my knowledge none of the high end tuners are reconmending anything other then the factory fluid at this point in time.Neither Redline or Amsoil are seeing much use in the high horsepower cars yet,that might be due to the fact nobody wants to be the guinnea pig though.If somebody wants to sponsor my truck,and pay for a new 8 speed if the tranny does take a ****,i'll try out both fluids,but as it stands,if it's coming out of my pocket,i'll stick with the factory overpriced ZF fluid for now.

 

[Burla]

I have no data on the current conversation but the correct fluid is d6, not d4, d4 is for more of the manual gear boxes and just a few auto's. Here is specs for d6 redline... They recently added those two zf applications within the last year or so I believe. The hotter or colder the application, the more you would benefit from pao/ester fluids, and heavy metal shear would be another time it would benefit you.

D6 ATF also provides significantly improved gear protection and will provide a GL-4 level of gear protection. The balanced frictional characteristics provide smooth and consistent shifts for extended drain intervals. The superior stability compared to petroleum ATFs allows high-temperature operation without varnishing valves and clutches which leads to transmission failure.

Suitable Replacement For:

Aisin Warner AW-1
ATF 134
BMW ATF 3
BMW ATF 3+
BMW/Mini 83 22 0 142 516 (M-1375.4)
BMW/Mini 83 22 2 152 426 (M-L12108)
BMW/Mini 83 22 0 432 807
BMW/Mini 83 22 0 397 114
BMW/Mini MTF-LT-3
BMW 83 22 2 289 720
BMW 83 22 2305 397
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep ZF 8/9 Speed
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep 68157995AA
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep 68157995AB
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep 68218925AA
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep 68218925GA
Ford Mercon® SP
Ford Mercon® LV
Ford WSS-M2C938-A
Ford XT-10-QLV
Ford XT-10-QLVC
Ford XT-10-DLV
GM Dexron® VI
Honda/Acura ATF-DW1
Honda/Acura Acura Type 3.0
Hyndai/Kia SP-IV
Jaguar/Land Rover Shell M-1375.4
MB 236.12
MB 236.14
MB 236.41
MB 722.9
MB Fuchs ATF 3353
MB NAG-2
Mitsubishi Diamond SP-IV
Mitsubishi Diamond Queen ATF J2
Mitsubishi Diamond Queen ATF J3
Nissan/Infinity 999MP-MTS00P
Nissan/Infinity NissanMatic S
Shell L12108
Shell 3403 M115
Subaru SOA635047
Toyota/Lexus JWS 3324
Toyota/Lexus NWS-9638
Toyota/Lexus Toyota Type WS
VW/Audi G 055 005
VW/Audi G 055 540
VW/Audi G 060 162
Volvo 31 256 774
Volvo 31 256 775
ZF Lifeguard 6/6 PLUS 8
ZF6/8

 

[HEMIMANN]

Would be interesting to get a VOA of ZF ATF, incl. base stock type, if possible. Maybe that's already out there someplace? Not sure anyone wants to cough up a sample of this overpriced magic mouse milk for analysis.

 

[EdGs]

Would be interesting to get a VOA of ZF ATF, incl. base stock type, if possible. Maybe that's already out there someplace? Not sure anyone wants to cough up a sample of this overpriced magic mouse milk for analysis.

I have some of the Mopar 8+9 speed atf here.

How much do you need to sample? Convincing my wife to let me pay to get it analyzed is another story, but I could mail some to someone that would.

 

[Wild one]

I have some of the Mopar 8+9 speed atf here.

How much do you need to sample? Convincing my wife to let me pay to get it analyzed is another story, but I could mail some to someone that would.

Ed did you ever get around to checking it's expansion factor from cold to 122 then 180??

 

[Burla]

I have some of the Mopar 8+9 speed atf here.

How much do you need to sample? Convincing my wife to let me pay to get it analyzed is another story, but I could mail some to someone that would.

You only need an ounce or two, but save your money there is already uoa and voa of this at bitog.