Full Stereo Replacement

[adrianp89]

My rig is sitting with new speaker wire hanging free in the door, waiting for replacement speakers. An amp in the back ready to go to work. But I'm keeping my factory amp in place until it's working with either the PAC or the DSR1. Will be an easy final step when it is ready... swap factory amp, replace factory speakers, and plug in the RCAs. I hope that day isn't too far off....

I'd replace the factory speakers now but I'm guessing ohm difference and crossover points just wouldn't be matched well enough for this little amp. Those of you with the Alpine systems prob would have better luck. I'm rock bottom on the stereo build...

I don't want to run an independent or run the DSR1 in Universal. Navigation, Satellite radio, System messages, Car Play, etc... all too important to me. Sucks though I have so much money sitting in there doing nothing.

Downsides of being an early adopter.

 

[Doxmia]

I got a beta DSR1 firmware from them as well as an update to the Maestro side of it.

A Lot of issues seem to be resolved. Siri prompts are now working properly, no issues with audio cutting out and not working completely anymore.

Attenuation seems to work for the parking sensors. It would still be nice if the rear sensors volume could be increased; when I’m playing music even with attenuation (because the gain is quite a bit higher in the front) you can’t hear the beeping in the rear. That said, because it attenuates it at least brings it to my attention now.

Notifications from CarPlay are also working, ringtone, etc. GPS audio is working.

The only thing I’ll say regarding the GPS: Because the DSR1 configuration does not give us an option to change prompt to “all speakers” only “front speakers”, if you’re listening to music pretty loud, the rear speakers can drown out the GPS directions. It would be nice if the CarPlay nav volume could be increased.

I haven’t been able to test the BLIS and FWC audible safety features yet but I’ll test the BLIS later today for sure, I can’t really test the FWC because I don’t really want to trigger it and accidentally get into an accident or anything like that I kind of just have to wait for it to pop up.

 

[Ziezee]

The update did not fix my issues (base 6 speaker stereo). But they are getting a unit like mine in on Monday and hopefully I'll have good news next week too!

 

[adrianp89]

While reading into the RR2 I wondered if the DSR1 is fully capable of integrating 100%. Sounds like they are getting there though!

 

[Kfield]

If they can get this straight that would be awesome. If not looks like I’ll use the JL Fix 86 which can be used after the amp.


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[Doxmia]

If they can get this straight that would be awesome. If not looks like I’ll use the JL Fix 86 which can be used after the amp.

The DSR 1 is going to be miles and miles better than using a post-amp solution like the fix86 even in its current state. Especially if you have the 12” + HK.

There will be a lot of issues if you try to use a summed signal in this truck (even ignoring typical bs like distortion and eq differences at multiple volume levels).

 

[Kfield]

The DSR 1 is going to be miles and miles better than using a post-amp solution like the fix86 even in its current state. Especially if you have the 12” + HK.

There will be a lot of issues if you try to use a summed signal in this truck (even ignoring typical bs like distortion and eq differences at multiple volume levels).

What would be some inherent problems the Fix would have? I have the standard 8.4 system. I got it knowing I would redo the stereo.


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[Doxmia]

What would be some inherent problems the Fix would have? I have the standard 8.4 system. I got it knowing I would redo the stereo.


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One issue that would be specific to this vehicle is that notifications, prompts, etc favour the driver seat (front left). So they'll dim that channel and prompts for navigation, notifications and whatnot will be so only the driver can hear them. If you take a sum signal of say just the fronts you will still hear the prompts and such but they will be quite a bit quieter than they should be because it's only going to be getting that signal from the front left.

Then you have to deal with the factory amp having a different EQ at different volumes. So let's say you use the FIX86 (or even something higher end like a Helix or Mosconi DSP) and run white noise through the system and flatten out the inputs. Bump up the volume 5 (or lower it 5 depending on what you started at) and you'll see the input EQ is garbage again. Typically most adjustments happen on the lower end (as volume goes up bass is decreased).

To get around the above issue typically you'd kind of go as loud as you could without detecting any clipping from the factory amp and EQ there because, at the very least, you won't be sending clipping to your speaker amps. From there you'll want to lower the volume and make sure that your bass amp won't be seeing any clipping because the bass output will increase as you lower the volume. I'd recommend a remote bass volume knob with clipping light if you go this route. Even if you do the best EQ you can with the best equipment you're going to have a system that sounds different at different volumes and there isn't much you can do about that.

Finally you 100% need to clip the wire for the ANC (active noise cancelling; if you have it) mics because that will destroy your tuning as well. You can tune with your windows open (opening the windows in the RAM turns off ANC) before you clip the wire to make sure you're even happy enough with the tune to run it before you want to commit to cutting a wire, though. It's part of the factory amp harness and not a separate plug.

Basically, just don't do it. The DSR-1 is definitely use-able in it's current state (i'd say we're 90% there) and it's 100% plug and play. Add to that they had a truck in the shop the week I posted about all of my issues, they're being very responsive so I don't doubt it will be 99% there in the next few weeks.

If you don't want to use the DSR-1, just wait for PAC to release their AmpPro4 for the vehicle. Or if you use an Audison DSP you can just use the Maestro aR.

Post amplification should only ever be considered if there is or will not be a foreseeable integration solution in the near future. You can make due with very, very expensive equipment (super high output speaker amps that compensate for clipping by tons of power output at low gain, high power handling components, etc) but it will never be as good as a flat signal from a true integration.

 

[Kfield]

One issue that would be specific to this vehicle is that notifications, prompts, etc favour the driver seat (front left). So they'll dim that channel and prompts for navigation, notifications and whatnot will be so only the driver can hear them. If you take a sum signal of say just the fronts you will still hear the prompts and such but they will be quite a bit quieter than they should be because it's only going to be getting that signal from the front left.

Then you have to deal with the factory amp having a different EQ at different volumes. So let's say you use the FIX86 (or even something higher end like a Helix or Mosconi DSP) and run white noise through the system and flatten out the inputs. Bump up the volume 5 (or lower it 5 depending on what you started at) and you'll see the input EQ is garbage again. Typically most adjustments happen on the lower end (as volume goes up bass is decreased).

To get around the above issue typically you'd kind of go as loud as you could without detecting any clipping from the factory amp and EQ there because, at the very least, you won't be sending clipping to your speaker amps. From there you'll want to lower the volume and make sure that your bass amp won't be seeing any clipping because the bass output will increase as you lower the volume. I'd recommend a remote bass volume knob with clipping light if you go this route. Even if you do the best EQ you can with the best equipment you're going to have a system that sounds different at different volumes and there isn't much you can do about that.

Finally you 100% need to clip the wire for the ANC (active noise cancelling; if you have it) mics because that will destroy your tuning as well. You can tune with your windows open (opening the windows in the RAM turns off ANC) before you clip the wire to make sure you're even happy enough with the tune to run it before you want to commit to cutting a wire, though. It's part of the factory amp harness and not a separate plug.

Basically, just don't do it. The DSR-1 is definitely use-able in it's current state (i'd say we're 90% there) and it's 100% plug and play. Add to that they had a truck in the shop the week I posted about all of my issues, they're being very responsive so I don't doubt it will be 99% there in the next few weeks.

If you don't want to use the DSR-1, just wait for PAC to release their AmpPro4 for the vehicle. Or if you use an Audison DSP you can just use the Maestro aR.

Post amplification should only ever be considered if there is or will not be a foreseeable integration solution in the near future. You can make due with very, very expensive equipment (super high output speaker amps that compensate for clipping by tons of power output at low gain, high power handling components, etc) but it will never be as good as a flat signal from a true integration.

I questioned all that with the shop, except the car play favoring the front left, and was told it wouldn’t be an issue. They said the fix takes whatever is put in and makes active changes to keep the output signals to what the Tun software was set at. So no bass roll off or other factory EQ corrections would interfere.

Hmmm makes me wonder. They did shy away from the DSR-1, even though they are a Rockford dealer, and pushed the Fix 86.

I may just purchase the DD speakers, amps, and Dsr-1 from them and do my own install.




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[Ziezee]

I'm almost finished with my install. Just waiting for the DSR1. I have a few speaker mounts still to make, but it's all wired up for the most part with new speaker wire and a couple amps. Can't wait. (Note: the 8.5 display and/or core speaker build still has DSR1 issues that make it unusable... DSR1 is testing with this build tomorrow).

Dox, where did you ground your gear in the back? You have amps behind the rear seat?

 

[Doxmia]

I questioned all that with the shop, except the car play favoring the front left, and was told it wouldn’t be an issue. They said the fix takes whatever is put in and makes active changes to keep the output signals to what the Tun software was set at. So no bass roll off or other factory EQ corrections would interfere.

Hmmm makes me wonder. They did shy away from the DSR-1, even though they are a Rockford dealer, and pushed the Fix 86.

I may just purchase the DD speakers, amps, and Dsr-1 from them and do my own install.




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The FiX86 does EQ corrections, but so does every decent DSP (granted with more work). I think the appeal to the FiX86 might be that it’s fairly easy to correct the EQ with the included disc.

Before the maestro and amppro 4’s were available I had used a FiX86 in my f150 in front of my Mosconi DSP and it actually increased the noise floor and I ended up pulling it out. I then tried just the FiX86 on its own and it was fine but from a factory integration standpoint it wasn’t a step up from my Mosconi other than it was way easier to get going.

It still had clipping issues with the factory integration eq’s and stuff.

Don’t take my or your shops word for it; do a bit of research because everyone is a bit biased to their experience with products. I think the FiX86 is great but there’s so much better DSPs out there. But it is a good “budget” integration all in one DSP. The DSP is definitely better than the DSR-1’s built in but you can give it a try and if you don’t like the DSP you can pass through to one of your choice (Mosconi, Helix, AudioControl, etc).

 

[Doxmia]

I'm almost finished with my install. Just waiting for the DSR1. I have a few speaker mounts still to make, but it's all wired up for the most part with new speaker wire and a couple amps. Can't wait. (Note: the 8.5 display and/or core speaker build still has DSR1 issues that make it unusable... DSR1 is testing with this build tomorrow).

Dox, where did you ground your gear in the back? You have amps behind the rear seat?

My extra battery is behind the passenger rear seat. You can ground on a seatbelt bolt; just make sure to sand off any paint off of the body for a good connection with the terminal.

 

[Kfield]

The FiX86 does EQ corrections, but so does every decent DSP (granted with more work). I think the appeal to the FiX86 might be that it’s fairly easy to correct the EQ with the included disc.

Before the maestro and amppro 4’s were available I had used a FiX86 in my f150 in front of my Mosconi DSP and it actually increased the noise floor and I ended up pulling it out. I then tried just the FiX86 on its own and it was fine but from a factory integration standpoint it wasn’t a step up from my Mosconi other than it was way easier to get going.

It still had clipping issues with the factory integration eq’s and stuff.

Don’t take my or your shops word for it; do a bit of research because everyone is a bit biased to their experience with products. I think the FiX86 is great but there’s so much better DSPs out there. But it is a good “budget” integration all in one DSP. The DSP is definitely better than the DSR-1’s built in but you can give it a try and if you don’t like the DSP you can pass through to one of your choice (Mosconi, Helix, AudioControl, etc).

Well I have been out of serious car audio since early 00’s and trying to wrap my head around the new factory integration stuff. The dsp were new when I last was serious about this. That’s why I’m relying on those with experience. They did mention if I wanted to add a TWK later. I know JL is decent, but mostly paying for name. The Dsp and integration is where I’m lost in my build.

Before it would be ripping out head unit and factory amp, then running all new equipment.


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[alex_5_7]

Can any of you recommend any good shops in SoCal

 

[adrianp89]

Can any of you recommend any good shops in SoCal

How much are you trying to spend? I knew of a few but they are about as high end as it gets.

 

[AngryRams]

How much are you trying to spend? I knew of a few but they are about as high end as it gets.

Not to hijack but do u know why I can't monitor torque in my ram? The option is there it's just I'm unable to select it and it has an italicized x next to it.

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[Ziezee]

I've been trying for over a month now to get my stereo going.

I have a 2019 Dodge Ram 8.5 display with the base 6 speaker system. I've been told that device under the seat is an amp and I've also been told it it's just a noise cancellation device. Somehow I need to figure out what it is and how to deal with it in order to upgrade my stereo system to awesome. Any help would be appreciated.

The DSR1 says it is compatible with the 2019 rams. The PAC AmpPro is not there yet. I've been trying to get the DSR1 working. It sounds like they've ironed out the problems with the 9 and 19 speaker versions, but I'm batting my head against a brick wall on the 6 speaker system.

Here is a picture of my main harness connector. From pictures I see from the Alpine system and comparing the schematics, it looks the same. I have 2 harnesses going into the amp, the Alpine has 3... but since the DSR1 only uses the big harness where the important stuff is for a full system replacement.

I can't imagine that the 8.5 display is different on any of the speaker builds. I'm thinking it is that amp that is different. Maestra has said that isn't an amp, just a noise cancellation processor. I'm not convinced.... I'm hoping it's an amp and that I'm getting fixed amplitude signals from the radio from different sources (audio, NAV, car warnings, etc) and this does some basic DSP--taking commands from the data bus and mixing/controlling the tone changes, fade/balance, NAV and Siri commands to front left speaker, etc.

If so, devices like the DSR1 and the PAC AmpPro will eventually work. If not, dang--my stereo upgrade options would be limited limited. I've been working a lot with the folks at Maestro and Rockford Fosgate without much luck. They don't seem to be interested in making their product work for this build and I've been told to just go to Universal mode. But I think all the data is there and I think it's possible and will work tons better in the Maestro mode. I just need some more info to back up my suspicions... the 6 speaker system has an amp that functions like the alpine system (but with less power and outputs). From the schematics and looking at the harness, this appears to be the case.

Any pics, schematics from the radio, expert input, or total off the wall speculation is appreciated! Also, what other options do I have? I have my vehicle wired (new speaker wire, amps, etc) and ready to go if I can figure this part out. I just need to pop in the new speakers once I have answers and I'm rocking... (I'm keeping the factory system going until then).

Right now, when I hook up the DSR1 I get audio for about 3 seconds from the front left speaker, and it fades out. Anytime I save new settings from the app, I get another 3 seconds. Very strange.

 

[alex_5_7]

How much are you trying to spend? I knew of a few but they are about as high end as it gets.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Over 1k at least

 

[adrianp89]

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Over 1k at least

JT Audio in the LA Area... If you want to make the drive (worth it IMO) up by San Jose is Simplicity in Sound.. which in my opinion is one of the best in the country.

You can look for builds by them here:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/

1K isn't much a budget if you are including equipment. Not sure what you want done but a high end premium system installed by a high-end shop is going to be at least 5k all-in.

 

[alex_5_7]

JT Audio in the LA Area... If you want to make the drive (worth it IMO) up by San Jose is Simplicity in Sound.. which in my opinion is one of the best in the country.

You can look for builds by them here:

https://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/

1K isn't much a budget if you are including equipment. Not sure what you want done but a high end premium system installed by a high-end shop is going to be at least 5k all-in.

I just mean 1k for labor not including the products. But I'll check both of those out! I got mine done last at a tint shop on my 2016 sierra and they left a static sound and my backup camera was fuzzy. Not to mention my bluetooth phone calls got over bass boosted by the epicenter...more than the music lol