Gas finally going down

[Burla]

I tried to show why, I guess I failed. Unless you are subsidizing your locality like we do in CA, then gasoline is a low profit commodity, you are buying it at cost plus a little change. Saudi subsidizes their fuel prices for it's citizens, sells it good profit to the world for their citizens benefit. Wanna live there? Me neither. Look at graphs of historical commodity pricing, except for gold and some metals, they all look similar except maybe coffee. They have raised a fair percentage year and year. Why? Without growth nothing survives, well except coffee and I don't know why that one does. Does anyone want to work and not get raises? Continue to have employer pay raises in health care and retirement? You get 3% more on average for everything you take from your employer. Bother to ask how that is possible? Now add regulation that crushes this industries profits.

Now, add the fact gasoline is a volatile commodity, your gov't spends a bunch of money with no way to pay it back like we did in 2008 and 2022, look at the spike, wanna go to war look at the spike. You want to begrudge the 4 "big gas" companies a 8% profit margin? How little would you like them to make? Yes they make 20 billion a year, fails to understand they put out 200 billion plus to make that 20 billion. Go back and see the profitability margins per sector, it isn't in top 30ish on profit margin. Wanna be mad about it wont change the facts on the ground. Wanna have your gov't subsidize it because times are tough? You cant rob peter to pay paul, your gov't has no money, they only spend yours. You might be able to get low gas prices paid by your own tax dollars, that wont work. Yes feel free to be mad at your gov't for the spikes that is legitimate, but in general gas prices are very very fair when compared to other sectors. I surrender past that.

 

[Burla]

We live on well water, so we drink bottled water, which is now 1.67 a gallon bottle for generic, was well under a dollar pre 2020. You can buy it from the germ infested dispenser for a quarter that sits out and allows the homeless to have a bath for a quarter, but no thanks. I refuse to pay it, my wife takes empty bottles to work and fills them for us = drinking water. 1.67 for something they don't have to have a refinery for, pump out of the ground sometimes offshore, put back in the ground and pump in your car, and regulate it to hell and back, and is not a volatile commodity, compared to gas at 4 bucks a gallon. One to grow on.

Of all the people I learned this from, a liberal political comms professor in 2002. Back then I questioned it, thought the prices were so bad, lol.

One thing, remember suadi doesn't sell gas (mostly), they sell crude. Today 93 dollars a barrel crude price. And they sell a lot of it for a small - medium size country with the population of my state. They need more money, they don't print it, they just turn up the pumps. They have a lot of moves they can make we cant, their population doesn't come close to consuming what they pump, we do.

 

[JimmyC]

Anyone notice gas ain’t the only thing going up in price? Fuel goes up and so does almost everything else.

 

[Djs hemi]

Here in Ontario fuel starts at $5.76 / gal for mid-grade

 

[Mojo88]

Here in Ontario fuel starts at $5.76 / gal for mid-grade

Is that an Imperial gallon??? That's ~4.5 liters.... versus a US gallon at ~3.8 liters.

 

[Bunchgrass]

Ever since 2020 and what happened then (and obviously continuing today) we fail to realize that historically "big gas" only makes a 6% margin, even now and inflation it still hasnt increased that much like 10% and 8% for the top two. So bottom line these are public companies they cant operate at a loss, if we want to have gas, we need them, and 6% for what they do is nothing. I cant answer your question specifically, only suggest their are way more profitable companies then big gas, like they aren't even in top twenty or thirty industries unless you jump on and off the ship at the right time.

To give accurate info it has changed a bit, see margins here. Net margin is what matters obviously, oil companies put out a lot of dollars for every dollar they make. The first number you see is 4, as in 4 firms = big gas, I can only guess that is Shell, Chevron, Exxon, and ConocoPhillips, and as you see it is a 8% margin for 2025. For every hundred dollars they spend, they make 8 bucks.

Oil/Gas (Integrated)	4	36.08%	8.30%	11.56%	11.25%	8.07%	11.57%	8.30%	11.58%	8.31%	21.67%	30.25%	21.92%	63.92%	0.25%	8.58%	0.31%	0.97%
Oil/Gas (Production and Exploration)	142	57.19%	14.63%	26.32%	25.42%	23.72%	25.82%	24.10%	25.75%	24.03%	43.21%	48.39%	43.43%	42.81%	0.22%	5.18%	0.90%	2.85%
Oil/Gas Distribution	23	43.37%	13.35%	26.56%	25.78%	23.42%	26.06%	23.67%	26.05%	23.67%	32.74%	39.62%	32.75%	56.63%	0.01%	6.88%	0.78%	1.23%
Oilfield Svcs/Equip.	97	11.09%	2.34%

8% return on investment is considered a pretty good return.

 

[Bunchgrass]

I've read that, and I simply don't understand why we have to pay so much for fuel. It seems to me that if our country is rich in oil, then so should the people, the country's owners. Why can't we sell our oil to our refineries at the cost of harvesting the oil? If anyone understands oil pricing, please share. I've wondered about pricing like forever.

My understanding is US oil leases are owned by the US govt and leased to private industry for drilling/extraction. The govt makes some money out of the deal as does the oil company. By law, the oil must be sold at the highest, best or going market rate to get the best return for the govt/taxpayer. Even if that makes the taxpayer pay more at the pump.

 

[Burla]

8% return on investment is considered a pretty good return.

Compared to what? As I said, gander at the profit margin per sector. Another way to look at 8% is 32 cents for that 4 dollars gallon price. After that, they start operating at a loss. Price of crude goes up, they still make 8% as they have increases on raw materials. I posted a question, what % profit should they be allowed to make considering they have to invest a dollar for every dime. 7,6,5? Lets say 4%, which is very poor, you can make that without effort guaranteed, so lets say with their 200 billion they are allowed to make 4% profit, which means you saved 16 cents a gallon. Better yet, lets say this is too frustrating, lets say they must operate at a loss because we all feel life ain't fair. Good, go buy an electric vehicle because gas would be gone.

Here's the top 5 list of price per gallon...

• Hong Kong: ~$15.37 USD/gallon ($3.06-$3.07/liter)
• Malawi: ~$10.83 USD/gallon
• Norway: ~$10.37 USD/gallon
• Denmark $10.03 USD/gallon
• Netherlands: ~$9.91 USD/gallon

 

[Wild one]

Here in Ontario fuel starts at $5.76 / gal for mid-grade

And you wonder why Alberta wants out,we're paying roughly $6.40 per US gallon.

 

[RamRigger]

Don't feel like it will last on down prices. This is not a well thought out assault, its a mess as are our wallets

 

[ramffml]

And you wonder why Alberta wants out,we're paying roughly $6.40 per US gallon.

So if AB pays more than ON, how is that Canada's fault?

But that aside, AB pays less tax on fuel than ON, I don't think we're comparing the same average's here as it depends where in AB and ON you are getting the gas.

 

[dhay13]

I filled up my Mustang Saturday night with premium at 4.99/gallon here in western PA. Regular is $4.19 here. Diesel is $5.99. They said on the local news the other day that PA has the 2nd highest gas tax in the country at .57. That's in addition to the 'regular' taxes on it. I think I read a couple of years ago that the total tax on gas here is about .90/gallon. They started running ads on TV recently. Gas tax is supposed to go towards road/bridge repair but an audit showed most is being re-directed to other areas of government.

 

[Dusty]

its funny because gasoline in Saudi Arabia is only .62/ per liter.

I realize SA is an oil producing nation, but, isn't America one as well? Why isn't SA's prices governed by the world commodity market like every one else?

just thinking out loud.

The United States is also a net exporter of oil.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 150003 miles.

 

[Dusty]

I don't know about that, why would Saudi do that they have coast to coast pipeline and they can use other water way. I think Iranian and 4-5 countries oil cant make it. I think the issue was them shipping their own oil out using countries friendly. If it was just about gas prices our govt would allow tolls, I think it is more then that for them. Just a tad politics to explain the price anyhow. I think there are moves we can make with oil supply but my guess they are just waiting a month or so.

View attachment 582697

The Saudi pipeline system is extremely limited and cannot transfer oil at the same rate as tankers shipping it trough the Straits.

But...that could change.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 150003 miles.

 

[Pull Ya]

Gas down .14 just outside Austin today. Yesterday 4.49 for 93 oct. Makes me happy to have a 93 tune---LOL
Jay

 

[Curmudgeon]

I filled up my Mustang Saturday night with premium at 4.99/gallon here in western PA. Regular is $4.19 here. Diesel is $5.99. They said on the local news the other day that PA has the 2nd highest gas tax in the country at .57. That's in addition to the 'regular' taxes on it. I think I read a couple of years ago that the total tax on gas here is about .90/gallon. They started running ads on TV recently. Gas tax is supposed to go towards road/bridge repair but an audit showed most is being re-directed to other areas of government.

Pennsylvania, I am told, does not have a state sport. Oh but we do.
It's the Pennsylvania pot-hole slalom.

 

[Wild one]

So if AB pays more than ON, how is that Canada's fault?

But that aside, AB pays less tax on fuel than ON, I don't think we're comparing the same average's here as it depends where in AB and ON you are getting the gas.

Apparently not,otherwise we wouldn't be paying more for our gas. If Alberta wasn't subsidizing the rest of Canada,we'd be way farther ahead
Hokay that's enough about Canuck politics

 

[ramffml]

Apparently not,otherwise we wouldn't be paying more for our gas. If Alberta wasn't subsidizing the rest of Canada,we'd be way farther ahead
Hokay that's enough about Canuck politics

Federal gov't is not somehow ensuring the price of your gas is higher than ON's. So I have no idea where this is coming from.

Until 2009, ON was the only province to never have received any equalization payments. Didn't hear us complaining

That's the thing about living in a larger federation, you're stronger than the sum of the parts.

Anyway, AB would destroy itself trying to break out on its own; land locked between 2 countries with no sovereign territory to bring resources to any ports, can you imagine trying to get something through BC or QB without support from the feds when you're no longer in Canada? Good luck lol. Never mind trying to prop up your own currency (because you'd have to unless you want other countries to jerk you up and down as they fiddle with their own currency); then you need a military, and a Plan B for when oil isn't quite so attractive anymore. Then you'd have to deal with the uh, giant neighbour down south with even less leverage than Canada currently has. You guys need to be a little careful before doing something you regret, like the brits did but only far, far worse.

Legally though, this is all academic. It's 99% impossible for AB to separate legally from Canada. Now if you just want to go rogue, well I guess that's a different thing but it'll never happen legally:

A) you need 10 percent votes to get a referendum on the ballot
B) you need a clear majority to accept the referendum
C) after that theoretical referendum in Oct/26, all that's legally required to happen is "negotiation" between AB and Feds. Then both sides have to agree on literally everything; how to divide up the land, how to split the debt, how to split the CPP, and keep in mind both sides already very clearly do NOT see eye to eye on this or else the referendum wouldn't have happened, so getting them to agree is ... unlikely. Then you need an amendment to the constitution requiring 70% of the provinces with a 66% coverage of the population to agree to it all. Oh, and then there is the indigenous lands; the treaties made with fed gov't before AB was even a province. In short, this isn't going to happen (legally).

 

[Wild one]

Federal gov't is not somehow ensuring the price of your gas is higher than ON's. So I have no idea where this is coming from.

Until 2009, ON was the only province to never have received any equalization payments. Didn't hear us complaining

That's the thing about living in a larger federation, you're stronger than the sum of the parts.

Anyway, AB would destroy itself trying to break out on its own; land locked between 2 countries with no sovereign territory to bring resources to any ports, can you imagine trying to get something through BC or QB without support from the feds when you're no longer in Canada? Good luck lol. Never mind trying to prop up your own currency (because you'd have to unless you want other countries to jerk you up and down as they fiddle with their own currency); then you need a military, and a Plan B for when oil isn't quite so attractive anymore. Then you'd have to deal with the uh, giant neighbour down south with even less leverage than Canada currently has. You guys need to be a little careful before doing something you regret, like the brits did but only far, far worse.

Legally though, this is all academic. It's 99% impossible for AB to separate legally from Canada. Now if you just want to go rogue, well I guess that's a different thing but it'll never happen legally.

We don't need Ottawa or BC's permission to move product to the coast,the UN has made that illegal for us to be blocked from moving product.I see you're falling for the Eastern BS that's floating around.Just think of how bad your taxes would be without Alberta financing the majority of Canada,as you guys in Ontario would have to step up and start paying your fair share of equalization payments to Quebec and the Maritimes Give me a break about your whining about equalization payments,you guys have never had to pay them,i could care less whether you got any money or not from Alberta,but you sure as hell never paid out any equalization have you.
Now it's time to quit this discussion before the thread gets locked,just accept the fact that 90% of what you claim is wrong

 

[madtrucker2016]

I've read that, and I simply don't understand why we have to pay so much for fuel. It seems to me that if our country is rich in oil, then so should the people, the country's owners. Why can't we sell our oil to our refineries at the cost of harvesting the oil? If anyone understands oil pricing, please share. I've wondered about pricing like forever.

How and who do you think the bombs are being paid for -the driver of motor vehicles