Hemi Valve Clatter at Startup

[vernitron]

2017 5.7 hemi, 27K miles. I park the truck in my driveway, slight incline, engine higher than rear of truck. I can let it sit for a couple of days and when I start it, no valve train noise. The few occasions when I park with the engine lower than the rear and let it sit just overnight and start it, it makes a lot of noise for a few seconds. Just wondering what could cause this difference in behavior.

 

[Brandon-w]

2017 5.7 hemi, 27K miles. I park the truck in my driveway, slight incline, engine higher than rear of truck. I can let it sit for a couple of days and when I start it, no valve train noise. The few occasions when I park with the engine lower than the rear and let it sit just overnight and start it, it makes a lot of noise for a few seconds. Just wondering what could cause this difference in behavior.

Hemi tick. Search for it there are many many many others having this problem. Ususlly alleviated by oil.

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[vernitron]

hi Brandon, thanks for replying. I am wondering why it happens only when I reverse the position of my truck, nose lower than rear. Is the oil in the valve train able to drain out in that position and not in the other?

 

[Brandon-w]

hi Brandon, thanks for replying. I am wondering why it happens only when I reverse the position of my truck, nose lower than rear. Is the oil in the valve train able to drain out in that position and not in the other?

Yes it will drain out as well as your oil pickup is at the back of the engine. My truck usto do it on the flat after a few hours of sitting.


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[Brandon-w]

Redline oil has worked well For many forum Members to get rid of that problem.

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[Curt Gobbell]

I've got a 2014 5.7 that has a startup tick.

I'm going to park with a slight incline (engine higher) and report back on the findings

 

[RAMTRPR]

If mine sits for awhile, I put the gas pedal to the floor and crank in for a few seconds to get oil moving, then start the truck. No tick


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[ramffml]

Try change the oil filter to a high quality one with better anti drain back valve. Wix or Royal Purple are great options.

 

[Shelton90]

Pour some Redline 5w30 in that puppy, not expensive to try at least

 

[seabrook]

mine only does this if you crank it and shut it right back off

 

[vernitron]

Thanks everyone for the input. I am using QSUD 5W20, just completed my first oil change on the truck. Used the NAPA Gold filter. Also dosed with one bottle of Lubegard. In another 3k miles will send off for a UOA. Thanks for the tip on the pedal to the metal at startup. I will try that the next time I park upside down.

 

[jws123]

Royal purple filter and penzoil or redline 5w30 oil i dont get startup noise anymore its rare if it does and I have over 200k on it lol

 

[MAC830203]

New hemi horizontal lifter issues. Been grinding cams for a few years. It’s the engine design. The lifter receive little to no oil in idle and r start up. Park it with engine facing up hill and oil to the back of pan. Will keep oil in pick up tube and engine primed than if oil to front of pan. If you can refrain from long idling, do it or shut off truck. Only when engine is 1000-1200 rpm will the hemi lube the lifters and cam. If you rebuild, get spray bars.

 

[TomB 1269]

I had not heard, nor tried a change of position on my truck. Yes I back in so she is slightly nose down. However I can tell you that it is related to engine oil temp at shut down. If I start her up cold go to the firehouse (under 1/2 mile) let her sit for an hour or more then come home. When I start her in the AM she ticks for 10 to 15 seconds. However, if I driver her enough to bring the oil temp up over 110 -115* F on the dash she will not tick the next morning.
IMO it is due to the fact that the oil temp is to low an therefore the viscosity modifiers do not kick in, i.e. she is still a a 5 weight oil verse changing toward a 20 weight oil, and therefore the oil does not stay in the valves as well and may actually be siphoned out due to the oil draining back in the the pan, i.e. if you put water in a hose and the other end in the pool and drop the end with water it has a siphoning effect as the end with water starts to run out. IMO this also maybe happening to the lifters as the oil is still in its "thin" startup state verse hot "thicker" state...... I notice it is more prevalent in the winter as it takes longer to heat the oil in the winter temperatures ........

I do like the positioning concept as it also follows the same theory that the "thinner" oil is flowing out of the valves easier.

PS as for the filters anti drain/flow back, my trucks oil is changed at the dealer so I tend to discount the filter as part of the issue.

As I am still under warranty and the engine was designed for a 5-20 oil I am very hesitant to try a 10-30 to see if my theory truly holds weight or not.

I do know for a fact that if the oil temp on the dash reads 110 or more that the tick does not happen.

 

[TomB 1269]

I also agree with the idling issue doe to the oiling system flow as will as the physics of roller lifters.
1st it is my understanding the oil system flow means the lifters are one of the last places to receive oil on start up, and therefore hydraulic lifters will tend to tick on startup when the oil is drained out of them.
The physics of the roller lifter is that unlike a flat tappet lifter that spins in the bore as it moves a roller does not.
We all know that at an idle oil pressure and coolant flow are reduced and that engine bay air temps will increase as the air is not being pushed / sucked out as it would if the truck was rolling down the rode.
Therefore you combine the 2 together and you get oil cooking on the lifters and causing a build up. Over time the build up becomes large enough to cause a split second delay in movement allowing for a near microscopic size gap between cam and lifter resulting in the lifter slamming back against the cam. Initially this is not even noticeable but over time the micro impacts cause undue stress on roller lifter bearings and eventually degrade the roller bearings to the point one fails and not the roller starts to drag on the came as well as impact the cam with greater gap between cam and lifter on the up stroke of the cam. The skidding starts to cause physical damage to the cam, and the continued pounding due to the gap caused by cooked on oil and the loss of a bearing, continues to become worse and worse until total failure.

Note, I have read a lot about the cam being higher in the block and therefore not getting bathed in oil slung from the oil pan by the crank. The issue with this theory is the fact that there is a windage tray and while running the engine oil in the pan is decreased by the amount pumping thru the block. I am not sure of how much oil is pumping thru the block but my guess would be at least 2 maybe 3 quarts.

I will agree that the cam and valve train geometry does not provide the most effective volume of oil to get to those components and that an oil squitter system in the lifter valley would provide more oil volume and better lubrication, but it would also provide more efficient and better cooling of lifters, particularly when the engine is at idle. And would most likely resolve the lifter problem in its entirety.

 

[Burla]

Tom if you look at a stat sheet you would see oil is much much much thicker when cold, even at 100f or 40c which is on nearly every stat sheet, compare that to the cSt.

Even pup 5w20 is 45 viscosity at 104f, and about 9 viscosity at operating temp.

 

[RAMTRPR]

If I had my motor rebuilt and had a cam installed, should I have replaced my rockers arm assembly when doing so?

I still have valve train noise and can’t pin it down. Used a mechanics stethoscope and I hear the rotating assembly but does not sound like tapping.

Going to get a video with my GoPro in the engine bay to post for you guys.

I am putting on my 6.4 intake soon so I should probably check and re torque the rocker arms correct?


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