I didn't write this,just passing it on.

[Grams]

I'd have nothing against either wind turbines or solar fields if they were installed on the side of a mountain,but so far they're building alot of them on top of prime farmland,which is what i have issues with. Alberta put a mortorium in place halting construction of either for now,don't know if it'll last or not.

On mountainsides they become greater eyesores for farther distances and unless faced South in this hemisphere are limited in capability.
When placed on “farmland”…. the landowner is who has the right to sell or lease his land as he sees fit …. (unless you wish to deprive landowners of the use/enjoyment of their property. In some cases the former farmland is unproductive or excessively needful of diminished water supplies, so a solar farm makes more sense for everyone.)

 

[Wild one]

On mountainsides they become greater eyesores for farther distances and unless faced South in this hemisphere are limited in capability.
When placed on “farmland”…. the landowner is who has the right to sell or lease his land as he sees fit …. (unless you wish to deprive landowners of the use/enjoyment of their property. In some cases the former farmland is unproductive or excessively needful of diminished water supplies, so a solar farm makes more sense for everyone.)

Then it's not really "PRIME FARMLAND" is it.Who gives a ch!t about them being an eyesore on the side of a mountain that's 20+ miles from a urban center .Dude you really got to learn to read better,as i'm getting tired of drawing you pictures,lol

 

[Grams]

Then it's not really "PRIME FARMLAND" is it.Who gives a ch!t about them being an eyesore on the side of a mountain that's 20+ miles from a urban center .Dude you really got to learn to read better,as i'm getting tired of drawing you pictures,lol

Go away and find some peace and happiness somewhere…. or at Least learn how to be civil. (The point I was making was that the solar-farms I’m seeing in My neck of the woods is on farmland that has been overworked/worn-out and dry. Anyone who claims that solar farms are built only on “prime” farmland …knows the subject about as well as yourself.)

 

[Wild one]

Go away and find some peace and happiness somewhere…. or at Least learn how to be civil. (The point I was making was that the solar-farms I’m seeing in My neck of the woods is on farmland that has been overworked/worn-out and dry. Anyone who claims that solar farms are built only on “prime” farmland …knows the subject about as well as yourself.)

Ah jeez did i hurt your little itty bitty feelings. Grow up dude,you're the one who keeps trying to push buttons,i didn't even know who you were till you got on my case.But now you seem bound and determined to be a pain in my ^ss. You really should go away,as you seem to be a bit thin skinned to be on here,you might do better on facebook

 

[huntergreen]

I hear you, Brother, and I support your opinion fully!

However, while I agree that spent nuclear waste is a BIG thing regarding containment overall, I have personally stood in front of a storage cooling pool at its closest allowable distances where 50 years of currently spent rods have been sitting with zero impact on the environment.

When we look at all the current ideologies that say other green earth saving initiatives can work, there is little to no supporting evidence, in my opinion, that anything beyond nuclear energy is better, in my honest opinion.

US subs and carriers utilize this technology for a reason, again, in my opinion!

Other countries reprocess the rods and are used again.

 

[huntergreen]

Ah jeez did i hurt your little itty bitty feelings. Grow up dude,you're the one who keeps trying to push buttons,i didn't even know who you were till you got on my case.But now you seem bound and determined to be a pain in my ^ss. You really should go away,as you seem to be a bit thin skinned to be on here,you might do better on facebook

LOL !

 

[GTyankee]

Farmers & or Ranchers out in the Desert, have to pay a fortune for water needed for irrigation.

You might be able to visualize a Flat Field out in the Desert.
A normal field here would be 640 Acres of flat land.
The Ranchers buy water in amounts of an Acre Foot.
( 1 foot of water in an area of 208.71 feet by 208.71 feet )

That friends is a load of Water
Out in any Desert, that is expensive

In Imperial Valley, California
Water cost

s $20 per acre-foot for agricultural and municipal use, and $85 per acre-foot for industrial use. An acre-foot is equal to 326,000 gallons.
That Water comes from Colorado !!

San Diego's Household water comes from there also
Residential Customers that live in Apartments, pay $100 per month for water

 

[Docwagon1776]

The downside is when it gets to -20C or colder there's usually not enough wind to turn them. I went by the local area that's covered in them last winter a few times when it was below -20C and not one of them was picking up enough wind to turn.

I would suppose local variations play a role, but there's nothing inherently different at those temps. Wind is successfully used at much colder temps in both the US and Europe. MIT: https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/it-true-wind-turbines-dont-work-winter

There's always a ton of NIMBY and misinformation on any new power generation. Biomass was railed against in my old home county for the most foolish of reasons...by people who use wood stoves for home heat. WTF do you think 'biomass' is, folks? Then people whine about power prices and The GRiD CaNt KEEp Up!

 

[gfh77665]

Which also put down their natural gas generation. Turbines work in the cold, including in Antarctica.

Texas just frequently forgets Texas gets cold and doesn't bother to weatherproof their infrastructure.

If you only knew the truth behind it...

Texas was PROHIBITED from strengthing the grid by blue inner city activists. They wanted a risky situation that would blow up at sometime, and it did sooner than later, just to try to pin political blame on the TX governor.

It backfired spectacularly, as the only people hurt was average Texans. The Governor is as popular as ever and Texas is getting redder by the day.

 

[Docwagon1776]

If you only knew the truth behind it...

Texas was PROHIBITED from strengthing the grid by blue inner city activists. They wanted a risky situation that would blow up at sometime, and it did sooner than later, just to try to pin political blame on the TX governor.

It backfired spectacularly, as the only people hurt was average Texans. The Governor is as popular as ever and Texas is getting redder by the day.

I don't know the politics of ERCOT, but if that's true that sucks. The state legislature left it as a recommendation but never mandated it. El Paso put some major bucks and resources into winterization, ERCOT never did as best I can tell.

I am in Fort Worth at the moment and the windstorm/rain last night was pretty intense but I didn't see any issues from that. TX knows it gets windy...just that cold thing.

 

[GTyankee]

I read something about Texas wanted to be Energy Independent.

Some politicians wanted to connect to other Power Sources & others wanted nothing to do with that.

I do recall that back around 2010,
Trump had Land in the Texas Badlands
He was approached by a Wind Farm Corporation to put Wind Turbines on his Land, because the Texas Badlands had constant winds.
After doing some research, 1 reason for not allowing it, was that Migrating Birds flew through that particular area.

Trump was all for Electric Power build up, but was shunned because he didn't want it it on His Property

The " Not in my back yard Argument "

 

[Wild one]

I would suppose local variations play a role, but there's nothing inherently different at those temps. Wind is successfully used at much colder temps in both the US and Europe. MIT: https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/it-true-wind-turbines-dont-work-winter

There's always a ton of NIMBY and misinformation on any new power generation. Biomass was railed against in my old home county for the most foolish of reasons...by people who use wood stoves for home heat. WTF do you think 'biomass' is, folks? Then people whine about power prices and The GRiD CaNt KEEp Up!

The issue in severe cold isn't the winterizing fact,that's easily overcome by heaters as stated in the article,it's the lack of wind at extreme temperatures. Very seldom is it windy here in North America when the temps get down to sub -30C/-21F,sure there can be the odd windy day at -30,but the norm is usually a drop in wind speed once you start approaching those temps.You can't overcome Mother Nature,and generate enough wind speed to spin a cold stiffened turbine when wind speeds drop to under 20 mph. You might get a ground drift wind,but it's usually only good to about 15/20ft in altitude,and is usually below the bottom tips of the blades.

 

[Docwagon1776]

The issue in severe cold isn't the winterizing fact,that's easily overcome by heaters as stated in the article,it's the lack of wind at extreme temperatures. Very seldom is it windy here in North America when the temps get down to sub -30C/-21F,sure there can be the odd windy day at -30,but the norm is usually a drop in wind speed once you start approaching those temps.You can't overcome Mother Nature,and generate enough wind speed to spin a cold stiffened turbine when wind speeds drop to under 20 mph. You might get a ground drift wind,but it's usually only good to about 15/20ft in altitude,and is usually below the bottom tips of the blades.

Wind is regional. Perhaps local influences make that true for your area. It's definitely not true continent wide.

 

[Grams]

If you only knew the truth behind it...

Texas was PROHIBITED from strengthing the grid by blue inner city activists. They wanted a risky situation that would blow up at sometime, and it did sooner than later, just to try to pin political blame on the TX governor.

It backfired spectacularly, as the only people hurt was average Texans. The Governor is as popular as ever and Texas is getting redder by the day.

What a load of B.S. / Propaganda. Texas …As You YourSelf Noted….is a RED STATE. Doh.

 

[Grams]

I read something about Texas wanted to be Energy Independent.

Some politicians wanted to connect to other Power Sources & others wanted nothing to do with that.

I do recall that back around 2010,
Trump had Land in the Texas Badlands
He was approached by a Wind Farm Corporation to put Wind Turbines on his Land, because the Texas Badlands had constant winds.
After doing some research, 1 reason for not allowing it, was that Migrating Birds flew through that particular area.

Trump was all for Electric Power build up, but was shunned because he didn't want it it on His Property

The " Not in my back yard Argument "

Google “texas badlands” so you’ll know where they are….(hint, Think Terlingua and the Big Bend Area)…. THEN Google Tx Parks and Wildlife bird migration routes….( so you might notice migratory birds do NOT migrate thru Big Bend / Terlingua area)….so that the Next Time you pontificate about what you don’t know …you won’t look so silly and uninformed as the man you admire.

Bird Migration map of TX:

 

[GTyankee]

As i stated, that was around 20 years ago.

I had never even heard the family called Trump

Hell, i did not really know who the people were that ordered the plane to fly into the skyscrapers, until that was all there was on the news.
Now there are something like 30,000 so called Refugees in my town

 

[Wild one]

Wind is regional. Perhaps local influences make that true for your area. It's definitely not true continent wide.

Usually it is once the temps drop down to -30C and colder in alot of North America.Yes there will be a ground drift wind,but it usually doesn't go much more then 20ft in altitude. Sure there's the odd windy day at -30,but there's more calm days at those temps then windy days.It generally takes a mininium of a 30 km/20mph wind when the temp is in the 70's to turn one,so what it takes for wind speed to turn one at -30 is probably even higher,as that's a number i've never seen posted.
The best of both worlds would be to mount solar panels on them too. You could easily mount a 20 ft wide or wider solar panel to run up the south side of the concrete tower,and throw another couple big panels on the top of them.
That way when the wind drops off,they'd still be generating some power,during daylight hours

 

[Docwagon1776]

Usually it is once the temps drop down to -30C and colder in alot of North America.Yes there will be a ground drift wind,but it usually doesn't go much more then 20ft in altitude. Sure there's the odd windy day at -30,but there's more calm days at those temps then windy days.It generally takes a mininium of a 30 km/20mph wind when the temp is in the 70's to turn one,so what it takes for wind speed to turn one at -30 is probably even higher,as that's a number i've never seen posted.
The best of both worlds would be to mount solar panels on them too. You could easily mount a 20 ft wide or wider solar panel to run up the south side of the concrete tower,and throw another couple big panels on the top of them.
That way when the wind drops off,they'd still be generating some power,during daylight hours

Would it interest you to know that per your government's official tally, wind production nationwide in Canada in February is double that of July? And Solar is the opposite?

Alberta specifically is roughly the same, though peaking in December at well over double the lowest month of March. Summer is about 2/3rd of winter production on average. So whatever effect you are observing does not seem to be impacting overall generation in the coldest months.

Electric power generation, monthly generation by type of electricity

Electricity generation by class of electricity producer (electric utilities, electricity producers, industries, etc.) and type of electricity generation (hydroelectric, combustible fuels, wind, etc.). Data are presented at the national and provincial levels, however not all combinations are...

www150.statcan.gc.ca

and you can adjust for any date range you like, nationwide or individual provinces.

Ultimately, a robust grid should have several forms of generation available, as well as a method to store excess generation. The first is much easier than the second, most places still don't have a good answer for that. One of the downsides of nuclear is the inability to scale up or down for demand. They'll sort it out, though. I've never lost money on a utility company stock nor an energy infrastructure company. Actually the only Canadian companies I own shares in. They aren't sexy and they don't have the growth of tech stocks, but a 7-9% dead nuts reliable dividend year after year. I bring this up for one reason: They aren't making money by not knowing what they are doing and being inefficient with their infrastructure. Institutional investors would flock elsewhere if that were the case even if crumb sweeping players like me didn't notice right away.

 

[Wild one]

Would it interest you to know that per your government's official tally, wind production nationwide in Canada in February is double that of July? And Solar is the opposite?

Alberta specifically is roughly the same, though peaking in December at well over double the lowest month of March. Summer is about 2/3rd of winter production on average. So whatever effect you are observing does not seem to be impacting overall generation in the coldest months.

Electric power generation, monthly generation by type of electricity

Electricity generation by class of electricity producer (electric utilities, electricity producers, industries, etc.) and type of electricity generation (hydroelectric, combustible fuels, wind, etc.). Data are presented at the national and provincial levels, however not all combinations are...

www150.statcan.gc.ca

and you can adjust for any date range you like, nationwide or individual provinces.

Ultimately, a robust grid should have several forms of generation available, as well as a method to store excess generation. The first is much easier than the second, most places still don't have a good answer for that. One of the downsides of nuclear is the inability to scale up or down for demand. They'll sort it out, though. I've never lost money on a utility company stock nor an energy infrastructure company. Actually the only Canadian companies I own shares in. They aren't sexy and they don't have the growth of tech stocks, but a 7-9% dead nuts reliable dividend year after year. I bring this up for one reason: They aren't making money by not knowing what they are doing and being inefficient with their infrastructure. Institutional investors would flock elsewhere if that were the case even if crumb sweeping players like me didn't notice right away.

I'm not talking about a monthly wind forecast,i'm talking about wind on days when it's -30 or colder,which is usually the days the power grid is setting usage records.Stats Can also fails to mention the wind calculations assume for Chinook winds which hit the southern edge of the province more then the northern edge
Also if you look at the power generated by wind power,it's miniscule in relation to the power needed or generated by other methods
Throw in the fact Stats Canada doesn't know it's ^$$hole from a hole in ground alot of times.Alot of their findings are survey based.Any utility company in Canada returning 7 to 9% dividends is over charging their customers,it's not becuase of wise decisions on the utility companies part,it's because they can get away with gouging their Canadian customer,and in Canada they pretty well have a locked in market,with no other options for the consumer.Our local utility company has been in the news lately for over charging their customers by several billion,and there's no mention of any of that money returning to our taxpayer pockets.

Surveys and statistical programs - Monthly Electricity Supply and Disposition Survey (MELE)

The purpose of this survey is to obtain information on the supply of, and/or demand for, energy in Canada.

www23.statcan.gc.ca

Statistical activity - Additional Information - Surveys and statistical programs - Monthly Electricity Supply and Disposition Survey (MELE)

List of documents.

www23.statcan.gc.ca

f electricity generation	7,216,818	5,975,435	6,181,927	6,030,834	5,809,942	5,747,932	6,625,233	6,527,172	6,202,782	6,658,168	7,089,647	7,128,923	7,720,453

Wind power turbine10	947,954	960,901	599,461	832,430	629,387	623,747	596,312	645,238	751,339	973,740	1,319,223	1,486,027	1,080,596
Solar11	66,563	96,125	215,494	223,105	293,737	289,039	315,727	282,260	223,128	129,260	92,217	67,344	90,009

 

[Docwagon1776]

I'm not talking about a monthly wind forecast,i'm talking about wind on days when it's -30 or colder.

I feel like I've lost the point of the discussion if this all hinges on the assumption anyone thinks wind is consistent at such a granular level as day to day, temperature independent, or that wind is going to be the only source of generation at any point.