Performance Modifications

[H1Chester]

I have seen threads on this forum (use search function) that will tell you NOT to get the lower temperature thermostat because these engines like running a little warmer and a thermostat could be detrimental to performance... Just saying.

 

[Elevated 2013]

I have seen threads on this forum (use search function) that will tell you NOT to get the lower temperature thermostat because these engines like running a little warmer and a thermostat could be detrimental to performance... Just saying.

I have heard that as well from my tuner. He said the Hemis like to run around 210-220 and he generally sees the best results from them around those temps when he is dyno tuning. I’m a bit old school, plus my truck has 77,000 miles on it, and I tow and live in an area where it can get hot and there’s stop and go traffic all over the place. So, I prefer to keep my engine temps a bit lower even if it means I sacrifice 1 or 2 horsepower or some torque.

 

[crackerjack1957]

Some disagree............engine, oil & air temp over coolant temp for max power/torque in performance engines.
A few minutes on the dyno can quickly show temps above 210-220*, regardless of the thermostat.

http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/Interpreting_Dyno_Data.pdf

 

[Wild one]

I have heard that as well from my tuner. He said the Hemis like to run around 210-220 and he generally sees the best results from them around those temps when he is dyno tuning. I’m a bit old school, plus my truck has 77,000 miles on it, and I tow and live in an area where it can get hot and there’s stop and go traffic all over the place. So, I prefer to keep my engine temps a bit lower even if it means I sacrifice 1 or 2 horsepower or some torque.

Don't know who your tuner is,but his reconmendations are way different then any other Hemi tuners reconmendations. I know a few tuners and have run tunes from a couple different tuners,never had one recommend leaving the stock thermostat in place.
I also know of several Hemi cars and trucks that run their very best passes at the track after they've sat for at least an hour or more with the hood up and the engine has cooled off noticeably,take that for what you want,but it appears like the engines prefer to be a bit cooler to make their best power

 

[David Janes]

You're kidding us ... right?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He doesn't mention:
Gears
Heat wrap on headers
Tires
stiffing frame
losing weight
Gear oils
motor oils
and a whole bunch of other things.

@Ohio5pt7 and @Elevated 2013 mentioned everything I wanted to know and gave me a list of things to look forward to getting. I took the list to my shop yesterday and they thought it was a great list to go off of. I am not by any means trying to make my truck into a racetruck. I want some more power and torque to get up and go and have some fun with it but also be able to pull trailers and boats with no issues.

 

[Tim Garceau]

Don't ever lose sight of the stiffing frame. It's...

 

[David Janes]

Don't ever lose sight of the stiffing frame. It's...
View attachment 204099

I think the correct way to say that is YUGGGGGEEEEE. hell yeah

 

[crackerjack1957]

@Ohio5pt7 and @Elevated 2013 mentioned everything I wanted to know and gave me a list of things to look forward to getting. I took the list to my shop yesterday and they thought it was a great list to go off of. I am not by any means trying to make my truck into a racetruck. I want some more power and torque to get up and go and have some fun with it but also be able to pull trailers and boats with no issues.

Sure they are great & I have most of them except for forced induction.........just wanted to point out that the 180 thermostat is a good thing if you are already tuned......you want to keep those temps down especially when towing........I know for a fact Hemifever & Greene recommend it......timing is moved up for performance & cooler engine prevents detonation.

 

[Elevated 2013]

Don't know who your tuner is,but his reconmendations are way different then any other Hemi tuners reconmendations. I know a few tuners and have run tunes from a couple different tuners,never had one recommend leaving the stock thermostat in place.
I also know of several Hemi cars and trucks that run their very best passes at the track after they've sat for at least an hour or more with the hood up and the engine has cooled off noticeably,take that for what you want,but it appears like the engines prefer to be a bit cooler to make their best power

The tuner I have been using is Jeremy Satera. He holds (or held) the worlds record for Fastest Hellcat. I don’t know who to believe at this moment as it used to be keep the engine as cool as possible. I believe he showed me some dyno passes as a Hellcat at engine warmed up and how it kept getting better and better numbers. I’m not trying to make an argument on this point as it doesn’t make any sense based on any of my experience or training, but he has a lot more experience than I do. Maybe I’ll bring this question to TunedRams and ask those guys??

 

[David Janes]

Sure they are great & I have most of them except for forced induction.........just wanted to point out that the 180 thermostat is a good thing if you are already tuned......you want to keep those temps down especially when towing........I know for a fact Hemifever & Greene recommend it......timing is moved up for performance & cooler engine prevents detonation.

thanks for the advice. Ive been considering doing a hemifever tune. I have the diablo i3. Just haven't fully committed to doing it yet.

 

[crackerjack1957]

The tuner I have been using is Jeremy Satera. He holds (or held) the worlds record for Fastest Hellcat. I don’t know who to believe at this moment as it used to be keep the engine as cool as possible. I believe he showed me some dyno passes as a Hellcat at engine warmed up and how it kept getting better and better numbers. I’m not trying to make an argument on this point as it doesn’t make any sense based on any of my experience or training, but he has a lot more experience than I do. Maybe I’ll bring this question to TunedRams and ask those guys??

His engine temps are pretty spot on because dyno will bring temps up fast......but on the thermostat did he actually say run stock stat?
For everyday cruising stock would be better but we are talking performance in this thread & when you get those rpm's up engine temps will climb even with the 180 stat.
When I say engine temps its the oil, cylinder/heads where power is made.....not the coolant temps.
Also when oil is heated its thinner......less friction=more power also.

 

[Tim Garceau]

Here we go.

 

[scott lass 18]

for all the money buying a new motor and having them put better cam lifters oil pump better head works and they do a great job better pistons so u have a super great motor already built ! its called powertrain motors love how they help u and can have a great engine better then the problem dodge engines that are out there ! I seen they fix all the problems and feel with there engine you can use a blower too !

 

[Desert_ Ram]

Sure they are great & I have most of them except for forced induction.........just wanted to point out that the 180 thermostat is a good thing if you are already tuned......you want to keep those temps down especially when towing........I know for a fact Hemifever & Greene recommend it......timing is moved up for performance & cooler engine prevents detonation.

I am in the Middle East in Abu Dhabi it hot as you can imagine . Just got my Hemifever Tune today took the truck for the first drive and logged some run emailed them back and got the reply just an hour a go... “get a 180 degree thermostat “ ...

 

[Elevated 2013]

His engine temps are pretty spot on because dyno will bring temps up fast......but on the thermostat did he actually say run stock stat?
For everyday cruising stock would be better but we are talking performance in this thread & when you get those rpm's up engine temps will climb even with the 180 stat.
When I say engine temps its the oil, cylinder/heads where power is made.....not the coolant temps.
Also when oil is heated its thinner......less friction=more power also.

I believe he uses a stock temp thermostat but by a different manufacturer. I didn’t ask him. I had already installed my 180 thermostat and removed the clutch fan by the time I went and saw him.

I absolutely agree with everything you said about engine oil and cylinder heads and cylinders. His whole statement has thrown a lot of things off for me and I don’t know what to do with it based on my training and experience with heavily modded engines and drag racing. That’s why I’m not fighting or arguing heavily with anyone on this point. I was just relaying what he had told me.

 

[Elevated 2013]

I am in the Middle East in Abu Dhabi it hot as you can imagine . Just got my Hemifever Tune today took the truck for the first drive and logged some run emailed them back and got the reply just an hour a go... “get a 180 degree thermostat “ ...

I’m sure it’s not that hot here on a regular basis unless you live in Death Valley! But I’m sure for your purposes you will want to do that for even everyday purposes.

 

[Wild one]

The tuner I have been using is Jeremy Satera. He holds (or held) the worlds record for Fastest Hellcat. I don’t know who to believe at this moment as it used to be keep the engine as cool as possible. I believe he showed me some dyno passes as a Hellcat at engine warmed up and how it kept getting better and better numbers. I’m not trying to make an argument on this point as it doesn’t make any sense based on any of my experience or training, but he has a lot more experience than I do. Maybe I’ll bring this question to TunedRams and ask those guys??

If this Hellcat had the killer chiller added to the intercooler system,i could see it getting better numbers as the engine warmed up.As stated above everything behind the engine will also be warmed up fluid wise .But i'd hazard a guess even a blower car that's not running the chiller set-up the numbers might not be the same.and on a N/A set-up i'd really like to see the numbers. Satera is one of the better tuners out there ,that's for sure,but I think alot of the stuff he's tuning these days are the upper end Hellcats/Demons etc,and i'm guessing a lot of those cars will be running some sort of chiller set-up,whether it be the factory Demons set-up or the aftermarket Killer Chiller set-up

 

[Elevated 2013]

They’re definitely upper end as some of them are turbo and supercharged and his prices definitely reflect it. He told me a non-mds camshaft and supporting hardware installed and dyno tuned on my truck was $8500+

 

[Wild one]

They’re definitely upper end as some of them are turbo and supercharged and his prices definitely reflect it. He told me a non-mds camshaft and supporting hardware installed and dyno tuned on my truck was $8500+

Jeremy / Tim Barth / AJ all can pretty well set their rates and guys are going to pay it,lol. They're pretty well the cream of the crop when it comes to Hemi tuning.

 

[Ohio5pt7]

They’re definitely upper end as some of them are turbo and supercharged and his prices definitely reflect it. He told me a non-mds camshaft and supporting hardware installed and dyno tuned on my truck was $8500+

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