"ported" TB- WAIT

[lonewolf2873]

Certainly emails could have hit your spam box. I don't know man. I can't get my micrometer to 87. But whatever. I'll take a pic of the holes in it tonight and see what you think.

That ****** commercial is funny. Especially when you know what a Ram 4X4 is capable of.

No offense but those are vernier calipers, not micrometer. For you to check bore that deep, it would require bore gage of many various designs.

This is the particular mod Moe's does vs say bbk. If you have a bad machining TB, that's flipping horrible! Very poor quality control IF that's the case.
Hemi450- So the tuner should be FIRST? Well damn that makes my order easier to compile...lol

 

[Hemi450hp]

No offense but those are vernier calipers, not micrometer. For you to check bore that deep, it would require bore gage of many various designs.

This is the particular mod Moe's does vs say bbk. If you have a bad machining TB, that's flipping horrible! Very poor quality control IF that's the case.
Hemi450- So the tuner should be FIRST? Well damn that makes my order easier to compile...lol

He has 1 of our TB's. Some of the factory units have small holes in the casting, so I have seen a few that had tiny pinhole size holes, but never 1 that went all the way through to the outside of the TB. Hopefully he can send me a few pics to see what we are working with here.

As for the mod order, tuner is always my first recommendation. Bang for buck, it is the best mod you will do. You will gain more form the Hemifever tune alone than you will from the intake, TB, and muffler combined.

 

[Saltillo Express]

No offense but those are vernier calipers, not micrometer. For you to check bore that deep, it would require bore gage of many various designs.

OK. It ain't a micrometer. What's a "bore gauge of many various designs"? I'm a musician by trade and hot rod chryslers for fun, so cut me a little slack will ya? Whatever you call it, it's a machinist's tool, and it measures in metric millimeters. And it's very accurate.

Moe's I'm not sure shipping a couple back and forth is worth the hassle. It appears like a casting issue. I don't know...It's not like it's going to erode or anything. It's just a TB.

 

[Hemi450hp]

Those are the normal tiny pin hole size casting flaws that I was referring to. Do either of those holes go all the way through though?

 

[lonewolf2873]

OK. It ain't a micrometer. What's a "bore gauge of many various designs"? I'm a musician by trade and hot rod chryslers for fun, so cut me a little slack will ya? Whatever you call it, it's a machinist's tool, and it measures in metric millimeters. And it's very accurate.

Moe's I'm not sure shipping a couple back and forth is worth the hassle. It appears like a casting issue. I don't know...It's not like it's going to erode or anything. It's just a TB.

Sorry I offended you, I'm a toolmaker by trade and it came across ******.
Is it possible to send your stock TB to Matt and just have them modify it? Just trying to help toss ideas around. We all do this for fun.

 

[Hemi450hp]

Sorry I offended you, I'm a toolmaker by trade and it came across ******.
Is it possible to send your stock TB to Matt and just have them modify it? Just trying to help toss ideas around. We all do this for fun.

Those tiny holes are actually small air pockets inside the TB casting. When we bore these out, some have them and some do not. We have never seen them have a negative impact on performance though because they are so tiny. The problem is that this is not something you see until after you cut the TB, so there is no way to tell if a TB will be like this or not until after we port it.

 

[The Unabomber]

As for the 12-15hp claims, I've always called BS on them but I'm a very small minority in the community. You'd be laughed out of the shop if you told the guys on LXF that you put a ported TB on your LX. The throttle body will be the last restriction in your system but because there were so few mods for the trucks when the tuning was locked any mod was a good mod.

I've been down this road before with the 3rd gen and 4th gen Hemi's. Like you said you'll be hard pressed to have someone on another car forum suggest a ported TB.

If you go forced induction that is a slightly different story.

In my opinion they are a waste of money on our cars and trucks, even with bolt on's. CAI's fall into this category also. There are only a couple that actually produce actual gains.

My 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

 

[lonewolf2873]

Wonder if it's origin of manufacture.
The work we do in Mexico and Asian countries has subpar materials. China for example does casting the literally seem like Sherman tank chunks. Some drill good, other you can't get drill to cut.
Same goes for air pockets. Where are all the TB made?

 

[The Unabomber]

OK. It ain't a micrometer. What's a "bore gauge of many various designs"? I'm a musician by trade and hot rod chryslers for fun, so cut me a little slack will ya? Whatever you call it, it's a machinist's tool, and it measures in metric millimeters. And it's very accurate.

Moe's I'm not sure shipping a couple back and forth is worth the hassle. It appears like a casting issue. I don't know...It's not like it's going to erode or anything. It's just a TB.

I don't know where that TB came from but that is a horrible port job done.

Maybe it's just the picture but it looks rough as he'll.

 

[Hemi450hp]

Unabomber,

That is just a very close up picture, so it shows each ring in the cut.

What mods have you done to your truck so far? I see a lot of guys from the LX side talk down on the ported TB's, but recent dyno testing by Hemifever has shown great numbers on the 5.7 and especially the 6.4 cars and Jeeps. He has had 4 or 5 different vehicles on the dyno in the past few weeks to test TB's, and he has seen consistant gains from 8-16hp at the wheels with the TB being the only change. Hemifever himself owns both a 5.7 Charger and a 6.4 Challenger, both of which "used" to have a BBK throttle body. Since swapping those out for a ported TB very similar to ours, he not only picked up power on the dyno but his drivability has increased as well.

Now obviously all of these cars are tuned, but the point is that they are still showing measurable gains from the TB.

 

[The Unabomber]

Unabomber,

That is just a very close up picture, so it shows each ring in the cut.

What mods have you done to your truck so far? I see a lot of guys from the LX side talk down on the ported TB's, but recent dyno testing by Hemifever has shown great numbers on the 5.7 and especially the 6.4 cars and Jeeps. He has had 4 or 5 different vehicles on the dyno in the past few weeks to test TB's, and he has seen consistant gains from 8-16hp at the wheels with the TB being the only change. Hemifever himself owns both a 5.7 Charger and a 6.4 Challenger, both of which "used" to have a BBK throttle body. Since swapping those out for a ported TB very similar to ours, he not only picked up power on the dyno but his drivability has increased as well.

Now obviously all of these cars are tuned, but the point is that they are still showing measurable gains from the TB.

Regardless of it being a "close up" or not a ported TB should be smooth. That is definitely not close to "smooth" or acceptable to me.

In regards to picking up 8 to 16 horsepower from the TB I'll call BS. You'll be lucky to see 5 to 6 hp from it.

By all means dial in your tune with the ported TB and average your runs. Reinstall the stock TB with your dialed in tune and be amazed at how little of a drop there is in performance.

Do the gains justify the cost versus other more beneficial mods? That's a question the person spending the money has to make.

While I do agree this will be beneficial to guys who are heavily modded with heads, cam, headers, exhaust, intake, etc most are throwing their money away.

 

[Hemi450hp]

In regards to picking up 8 to 16 horsepower from the TB I'll call BS. You'll be lucky to see 5 to 6 hp from it.

By all means dial in your tune with the ported TB and average your runs. Reinstall the stock TB with your dialed in tune and be amazed at how little of a drop there is in performance.

Do the gains justify the cost versus other more beneficial mods? That's a question the person spending the money has to make.

While I do agree this will be beneficial to guys who are heavily modded with heads, cam, headers, exhaust, intake, etc most are throwing their money away.

The pulls that Hemifever and his customers made were with his standard tuning. They were not tuned on the dyno after adding the TB. They drove to the dyno with the tuning installed on stock throttle bodies. While there, they made 2 pulls with the stock TB, 2 with the ported TB, and then 2 more with the stock TB back on again. All showed the gains that I mentioned in my last post. The vehicle that saw the smallest gains from a TB was the 5.7 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The Jeep was only seeing 6-8hp, but it also only had an intake as its only other mod.

I will agree that there are other mods available that will show more of a gain than a TB, but I disagree with your claims that they do not work on the trucks. There are hundreds of trucks on here with this exact TB that are showing positive results both at the track and dyno.

 

[DavidRam]

Wonder if it's origin of manufacture.
The work we do in Mexico and Asian countries has subpar materials. China for example does casting the literally seem like Sherman tank chunks. Some drill good, other you can't get drill to cut.
Same goes for air pockets. Where are all the TB made?

My Moes ported TB was "made in Germany."

 

[bouf0010]

My Moes ported TB was "made in Germany."

its a ported oem throttle body

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

 

[lonewolf2873]

My Moes ported TB was "made in Germany."

I'm just trying to offer some possible way to figure out bad casting, if it even is possible.

 

[Saltillo Express]

Sorry I offended you, I'm a toolmaker by trade and it came across ******.
Is it possible to send your stock TB to Matt and just have them modify it? Just trying to help toss ideas around. We all do this for fun.

All good. no offense.

The .75mm hole goes into it a mm or so, but does not appear to go all the way through. The other one, same.

Here's the thing. I certainly don't have the experience and expertise of many. But, I have built and set up a few street 318, 360, 408's over the years. In each example of an MPI magnum engine, a ported TB's effects were instant. You could feel it. Even with no flash.

Since this little express is still under warranty - I figured, well I'll add a TB and intake and at least it will run a little better until the warranty is up. 7 bones later - .........

If it were me, (which it's not) I would change the pitch to something like - "83 mm ported throttle body, some casting flaws possible, increases airflow, results improved with ECU reflash". The thing said 12-15 hp no tuning required.

 

[The Unabomber]

Most people that are installing stuff like this don't realize that when they disconnect the battery like they should for the install they are actually resetting all of the adaptive's in the PCM/TCM.

This is where they are feeling their butt dyno power increase not so much with the actual mod itself.

Best bang for the buck mods for the 3rd and 4th gen Hemi's would be a Diablo, cam, headers, exhaust.

I'd suggest possibly doing a mods face off type of thing on the forums. Users can donate for dyno time and we could see if said mod actually delivers on said claims. Vendors could donate CAI, TB, etc. Compile some actual data on this stuff.

My 2 cents.

 

[DavidRam]

its a ported oem throttle body

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

Ofcourse, just pointing out that it came from Moes and it's stamped made in germany.

 

[Ramguy65]

I don't understand what the argument is here. Matt has given us Dyno proof that these TB add horsepower. What more do you want? I definitely felt a difference with my 85mm on my 09. I didn't Dyno it but I do know it made a difference. I have an 87mm coming and can't wait to get it on my 14.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

 

[twelver]

I just ordered a vararam and a 85mm TB from Moe's about a week ago. Should I have gone a different route? Did I just waste money on mods I won't even notice?