Ram 1500 EV is questionable if it makes it to market

[ramffml]

you can pose in almost anything

True enough, I don't know what this guy is trying to say but it certainly makes me wonder what I'm doing with my life

 

[star_deceiver]

In fairness, you're comparing a Lariat (fairly high trim) to a Gen 4 Express (one gen old and a low trim).

Yeah, that was the cheapest of each truck in town…. You’ll never find a base model lightning here that doesn’t have $15k in options.
From Red deer to High river, this is the cheapest I found using Fords search engine.

So, let’s compare that with my current truck. See if we can find the “break even” point!



77439 kms over a year and a half. $159xx in gas.
I went over my electricity bills for the past year and came up with an average of $0.34/kWh overall fees, taxes included. The lightnings hwy mileage is 42.8kWh/100kms, and let’s be real, I drive mainly highway. Had I owned a lightning over this mileage I would have spent $11268 in electricity charging from home. I would have saved $4711.

My Warlock cost $58k all in. With the Pro model at $838xx the difference is $25800. Saving $4711 over 77500kms it’s going to take well over 400000kms to break even on gas/electricity costs alone.

Maintenance costs. $50/oil change. $400 so far. Transfer case and diff fluid, another $200ish.At some point I’ll do the transmission fluid, spark plugs, and oil cooler assembly, so another $400. Anything else I’ve done or will do to the truck like tires, wipers, coolant, and car washes with be equal between both trucks. We’re at $1000 here, not the 1000x maintenance bill so far.

Major failures? Can’t predict that between with trucks but the both have expensive parts and if the traction battery or the v6/drivetrain parts needs replacing I’m probably coming ahead. 400000kms is a long time and anything can happen. I won’t be ahead with a lightning at current prices.

Remember, these calculations are for me, where I live, and how I drive, with my views on how I spend my money.

YMMV! Good luck!

 

[crash68]

I went over my electricity bills for the past year and came up with an average of $0.34/kWh overall fees, taxes included. The lightnings hwy mileage is 42.8kWh/100kms, and let’s be real,

That's the electric rate now, what do you think is going to happen as there is more demand from the electric grid? That rate is going up, probably exponentially the more gas goes away. Also did you factor in the battery loss from as it gets cold out? Most of the EV battery ranges don't reflect cold weather losses. That $4711 gap will close even faster.
I rough crunched some numbers and charging an EV with a level 2 charger for 2 hours a day costs more than running a 2-ton air conditioner for 8 hours a day (2-ton air is found in a typical 800-1000 square ft house).

 

[Fake-Account27]

THe big 3 completely misjudged their market. The market fort EV trucks are local governments who have fuel efficiency or climate goals they are trying to reach. Also company's who need trucks to drive around their campus, or storage lots.

 

[Travelin Ram]

THe big 3 completely misjudged their market. The market fort EV trucks are local governments who have fuel efficiency or climate goals they are trying to reach. Also company's who need trucks to drive around their campus, or storage lots.

It’s a lot bigger than that, there are many private businesses -contractors etc- who will never need to drive more than 100 miles or so a day. Out to the site and back. Parking every night back at the business site for charging.

Business will only get onboard when the math makes sense. An $80k luxury EV won’t win out over a gas Tradesman trim. Build EV versions at comparable trims and reasonable price premium and they’ll sell.

What most respondents are overlooking is this is the early adopter phase, where new products are marketed to enthusiasts with deep pockets. Those buyers want all the features money can buy.

 

[ramffml]

That's the electric rate now, what do you think is going to happen as there is more demand from the electric grid? That rate is going up, probably exponentially the more gas goes away. Also did you factor in the battery loss from as it gets cold out? Most of the EV battery ranges don't reflect cold weather losses. That $4711 gap will close even faster.
I rough crunched some numbers and charging an EV with a level 2 charger for 2 hours a day costs more than running a 2-ton air conditioner for 8 hours a day (2-ton air is found in a typical 800-1000 square ft house).

Exactly. And not only is the demand only going to go up, the price of generating electricity is only going to go up because they refuse to build new nuke plants and other cheaper sources. It's going to be a double hit.

 

[NETim]

The Big 3's rush to EV's is all about the ESG's.

 

[Fake-Account27]

It’s a lot bigger than that, there are many private businesses -contractors etc- who will never need to drive more than 100 miles or so a day. Out to the site and back. Parking every night back at the business site for charging.

Business will only get onboard when the math makes sense. An $80k luxury EV won’t win out over a gas Tradesman trim. Build EV versions at comparable trims and reasonable price premium and they’ll sell.

What most respondents are overlooking is this is the early adopter phase, where new products are marketed to enthusiasts with deep pockets. Those buyers want all the features money can buy.

I agree and a business is going to price out the vehicle over 10 years. So they would pay a premium for an EV, if it was less then their projected 10 year maintenance costs. That could easily equal 10k.

The other issue is no one knows what the resale will be on EV's, so it's hard to factor in deprecation.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Business will only get onboard when the math makes sense. An $80k luxury EV won’t win out over a gas Tradesman trim. Build EV versions at comparable trims and reasonable price premium and they’ll sell.

Jeep is supposed to be testing those waters soon. The Recon, if launched as marketed, would actually be ideal for my wife. She wants something like a Wrangler for the ability to remove the top and sit up a bit higher but has zero use for the off road capability. Removal of the doors remains possible, the roof is convertible, the back glass goes all the way down, so mission accomplished there. She never drives out of the county, range isn't a concern. We have other vehicles for road trips. It may or may not be any cheaper than ICE over the long run, don't care, if it's significantly cheaper than a Bronco or Wrangler its a contender.

 

[runamuck]

Yeah, that was the cheapest of each truck in town…. You’ll never find a base model lightning here that doesn’t have $15k in options.
From Red deer to High river, this is the cheapest I found using Fords search engine.
View attachment 531088
So, let’s compare that with my current truck. See if we can find the “break even” point!

View attachment 531089
View attachment 531090
77439 kms over a year and a half. $159xx in gas.
I went over my electricity bills for the past year and came up with an average of $0.34/kWh overall fees, taxes included. The lightnings hwy mileage is 42.8kWh/100kms, and let’s be real, I drive mainly highway. Had I owned a lightning over this mileage I would have spent $11268 in electricity charging from home. I would have saved $4711.

My Warlock cost $58k all in. With the Pro model at $838xx the difference is $25800. Saving $4711 over 77500kms it’s going to take well over 400000kms to break even on gas/electricity costs alone.

Maintenance costs. $50/oil change. $400 so far. Transfer case and diff fluid, another $200ish.At some point I’ll do the transmission fluid, spark plugs, and oil cooler assembly, so another $400. Anything else I’ve done or will do to the truck like tires, wipers, coolant, and car washes with be equal between both trucks. We’re at $1000 here, not the 1000x maintenance bill so far.

Major failures? Can’t predict that between with trucks but the both have expensive parts and if the traction battery or the v6/drivetrain parts needs replacing I’m probably coming ahead. 400000kms is a long time and anything can happen. I won’t be ahead with a lightning at current prices.

Remember, these calculations are for me, where I live, and how I drive, with my views on how I spend my money.

YMMV! Good luck!

I know it varies from region to region but our net price for electricity counting taxes and fees averages 14.03 cents. 34 cents seems high.

 

[NCRaineman]

I agree and a business is going to price out the vehicle over 10 years. So they would pay a premium for an EV, if it was less then their projected 10 year maintenance costs. That could easily equal 10k.

The other issue is no one knows what the resale will be on EV's, so it's hard to factor in deprecation.

Not to mention what insurance companies are doing. You buy an EV and your homeowners insurance may go sky high or be dropped completely. They're a major fire risk and local fire departments aren't equipped to deal with battery fires. Your home will burn to the ground and your neighbors homes very well may too.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

A Few Cons about the EV Market, The weight of the EV is appr 6,000lbs, tires on that brick last 10-15th miles before they need replacing only at the EV dealer and they wear down fast because of the weight and the jack rabbit starts, cannot get the battery wet say in a flood ask people in Florida being so low to the ground water will short out the whole electrical system, costing 1,000,00 to repair, some use antifreeze to cool down the bearing end of the Motor and if the seal goes bad you have antifreeze in the motor not good, most alarming is the fire hazard charging in your garage best charger is 220VAC you need a 150 amp service in your house, if it catches on fire it burns at 4,000d fah only water will put it out but not very effectively and takes hours put out, home owners policy would go through the roof, especially in the garage!!!!

 

[DanAR]

The Lightning extended range battery is currently a $10,000 option. Upon initial introduction Ford said the price for it would be $19,500. Which do you think is probably the real price (no taxpayer money subsidies)? Without that big battery the thing isn’t much more than a local run-about. Current replacement cost for that battery (no doubt subsidized by us again) is $35,900. Once at 100k miles or 8 years age (battery warranty) they will have a resale of essentially $0 by the time you factor in a potential replacement battery at some point, potentially at any time. Of course just prior to being discontinued it sounded like it was likely to immolate itself in your garage or driveway prior to that anyway.

 

[star_deceiver]

That's the electric rate now, what do you think is going to happen as there is more demand from the electric grid? That rate is going up, probably exponentially the more gas goes away. Also did you factor in the battery loss from as it gets cold out? Most of the EV battery ranges don't reflect cold weather losses.

No to battery loss as it was not easy to find Canadian winter reviews of only highway mileage. You’d think a motoring news outlet would have decent technical reviews of an Edmonton -40 commute, but no. There’s only people singing praises or woe is me. 42.8kwh/100kms is pretty bad anyways.

Electricity rates have jumped all over the place this year, already!

I know it varies from region to region but our net price for electricity counting taxes and fees averages 14.03 cents. 34 cents seems high.

Here’s my last months electricity bill. Add in the 5% GST and it’s $199.35. That over 469kWh is $0.425/kWh. Aren’t useless fees, taxes, surcharges, and levies great...

 

[BossHogg]

I think the EV market is not dead but definitely on hold excluding commuter EVs.

I think come 2026 or so, the technology supporting solid-state batteries will be ready and a better-recharging infrastructure will be in place, this has the potential to usher in EV pickups but the cost will likely be the new block to EV adaption for the majority.

 

[runamuck]

No to battery loss as it was not easy to find Canadian winter reviews of only highway mileage. You’d think a motoring news outlet would have decent technical reviews of an Edmonton -40 commute, but no. There’s only people singing praises or woe is me. 42.8kwh/100kms is pretty bad anyways.

Electricity rates have jumped all over the place this year, already!

Here’s my last months electricity bill. Add in the 5% GST and it’s $199.35. That over 469kWh is $0.425/kWh. Aren’t useless fees, taxes, surcharges, and levies great...View attachment 531146

they get you with the add-ons. like my office phone, the add-ons and fees are actually more then the phone line. I changed to magicjack for a tenth of the cost.

 

[Dave Haddon]

BCbouy..did you say "half the price but the cost of maintenance is 1000x what is is for an ev."..I must have misread.. My 21 Classic is awesome and will be running long after "THEY" decide EV's are worth buying...not for this cowboy!

 

[NCRaineman]

I think the EV market is not dead but definitely on hold excluding commuter EVs.

I think come 2026 or so, the technology supporting solid-state batteries will be ready and a better-recharging infrastructure will be in place, this has the potential to usher in EV pickups but the cost will likely be the new block to EV adaption for the majority.

That's overly optimistic.

The infrastructure to support charging large numbers of EVs will take decades to put in place. For homeowners it's relatively easy to put in a home charger. For the 36% of American households who rent? You think the landlord is going to be installing chargers?

What about all the people who park on the street or in a lot or garage? Even if the chargers are there what's to stop some hoodlum from unplugging them all in the middle of the night?

Of course none of this addresses the matter of available power in the electric grid. California has rolling blackouts every summer because they can't meet CURRENT demand. NC had blackouts last Xmas during a cold snap. Our grid is at capacity as it is, nevermind plugging in millions of EVs. Electricity isn't infinite, it has to be produced, mostly by burning coal and natural gas, and it takes A decade to build and certify a new power plant. Should have gotten started twenty years ago.

 

[runamuck]

I think most folks that talk of how clean and how good for the environment the BEV's are have not seen a lithium mine or the way cobalt is mined. the proposed mine to be built in the desert of Nevada for example will use an estimated 1.7 Billion gallons of water a year and will create 75 semi truckloads per day of molten sulphuric acid. the mine when finished will produce an amount of co2 equal to a small city. just to the S.E. of the mine one can see the hole in the earth created by the much smaller Newmont gold mine by google earth. the BEV will be clean going down the road but a lot of polution will be created to get to that point. not to mention the major stock holder in the Thacker pass mine is a Chinese company.

 

[giganova]

I will definitely buy the RAM EV when it comes out.

When my wife bought a Tesla, I was highly skeptical about EVs, but I was totally wrong and there are so many misconceptions out there:

Range Anxiety: non-issue. Tesla superchargers are incredibly fast: 10 min and its up to 80% again, so you hook it up at the Tesla supercharges at the gas station, go to the bathroom, get a soda, and when you come out the Tesla is at 80% again. My wife has a commute of 110 miles one way and never has to pull over to charge the Tesla. 220 miles back & forth and she charges when she's back home, no problem at all. And here on the East cost, Tesla supercharges are everywhere.

Battery replacement or degradation? That's all a myth. My friend has one of the first Tesla Model S that came out and after 10+ years, the battery is still like new and holds a full charge. The trick is to charge it to the recommended 80% and only to 100% when you need it.

Costs: charging the Tesla at home costs me a whopping $6 in electricity. Zero maintenance costs other than tire rotation.