RAM dealerships refuses to service my vehicle due to low survey score (long post)

[AFMoulton]

You also have a chance that the dealership won't want to deal with that, and find an agreeable medium prior to the mediation


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[huntergreen]

its worth a shot.

 

[Bdersch]

Okay cool. That's kind of what I thought. I dont want to spend money on court costs at all. But once I'm back from Alaska I'll call the AG. and see what they recommend doing.

At the minimum I think a free maxcare lifetime warranty would be reasonable but maybe a new vehicle since this one has so many Fricken issues. The later would be nice though.

 

[AFMoulton]

Okay cool. That's kind of what I thought. I dont want to spend money on court costs at all. But once I'm back from Alaska I'll call the AG. and see what they recommend doing.

At the minimum I think a free maxcare lifetime warranty would be reasonable but maybe a new vehicle since this one has so many Fricken issues. The later would be nice though.

May want to call the AG and see if they have a timeline. Friend had an issue and had to have a mediation scheduled within 10 days of original phone call from AG


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[Bdersch]

May want to call the AG and see if they have a timeline. Friend had an issue and had to have a mediation scheduled within 10 days of original phone call from AG


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Good to know maybe I'll call them tomororw morning then

 

[jotin]

RAM HAS MY TRUCK FOR 1 WEEK TO INSTALL A RACK AND PINION.
!@##$ Ridiculous!!!!!


CANT WAIT FOR THE SURVEY!!!! 5's at best 6 if if they lucky!

lol you're ridiculous. If you have me a 5 or 6 at my dealer. I'd tell you to go somewhere else next time too. My dealership because of how busy we are , is a week behind. People like you is why dealers are the way they are at times. Boohoo, you're without a car for a week. Get a rental car and quit crying.


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[jotin]

On the other hand, just playing devils advocate here, another dealer would have just parted company with you one way or another as, from their perspective, you seem to be the type that is never satisfied, or expect perfection from an imperfect system. It would be impossible to score well, so they wouldn't want to take the chance. Thats the age old problem with metrics. If done right, they will help improve product. But its not easy to do right as humans are involved that take things personally and are perhaps anxious about their jobs. So in the real world, metrics get modified, often as part of peer reviews.

The dealer was nice enough to offer a plan for reconciliation, which you have taken offense to. IMHO, no one else may listen as there are always a few dissatisfied customers writing nasty reviews and complaints.

Just another side of the coin... but the truck is modified, right? Dealers don't want to deal with the subjective part of fixing things that are modified. Always been that way, OEM is more clear cut, nothing subjective, no fingers to point, easier to get paid from FCA.

By the way, I give my dealer 10s, suggest giving the techs more time or money to do warranty repairs, and the next time I'm in they seem motivated to do good things

This was an awesome response and spot on, as I am a dealer tech. Some people are NEVER satisfied. I have a guy who wants his check engine light fixed for fuel trim issues. Has aftermarket JBA shorties, doesn't want to pay to have an exhaust leak fixed, but refuses to have it fixed and cries because I won't fix his truck until he does so.... seriously?


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[CrispyBacon]

lol you're ridiculous. If you have me a 5 or 6 at my dealer. I'd tell you to go somewhere else next time too. My dealership because of how busy we are , is a week behind. People like you is why dealers are the way they are at times. Boohoo, you're without a car for a week. Get a rental car and quit crying.


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Are you serious?

Why would you guys even take possession of the truck if you're 7 days behind? Tell the customer you need them to drop it off a in a few days, instead of their current appointment. It's not rocket science.

 

[jotin]

EDIT- Dealership name for those asking and those who will read this. Champion RAM CHRYSLER of Zionsville, Indiana

so i figured id keep you guys all posted on my dealer issues with RAM after my service appointmnet last money (http://www.ramforum.com/f38/another_day_dealer_another_day_my_time_wasted-107766/ heres my thread if you need to catch up)

Anyways i went ahead and rated the dealerships service pretty poorly. I gave them ratings between 0 and 6. However, did rate their cleanliness a 10.

So today i got a call from Ron who is the service guy that looked at my truck. He calls me today and says "i see you got gave us a bad review on the survey and id like to talk about this." I explained how i felt like they didnt attempt to fix any of my issues and all of the issues are still present and none of them are even fixed. He goes on to say "tell you what. i am going to have my manager resend you the survery and id like you to try and give us 9s or 10s. I dont think we deserve the 0s and 6s you gave us. Once you get that survey sent in we will take another look at your truck."

I went on to explain that i gave them my honest opinion on the survey and that i felt like my scores were fair based on how i was treated. Especially since they had my truck for 8 hours and essentially only flashed my computer, i waited 15 minutes for them to find my truck once i got there, and the dumb service driver LEFT MY TRUCK IN DRIVE WHEN HE GOT OUT!! He was like well yes that is all we did in 8 hours but we still looked at the other stuff.

I told him if you didnt find the issues you should have called me to keep me updated like i asked you to. I told him i would have happily showed him the issues and noises on a test drive or demonstration. I asked is that not standard practice for a mechanical issue? he said "well of course that is standard practice but only if the customer requests it."

we continue our conversation and he comes back to the survey. He said listen im going to get this survey sent back to you and then once you get us some 9s or 10s we will get you back in and i will look at it and you can go for a ride with the manager and we will happily take a look at it again. I said wait "so if i dont redo this survey you are saying you refuse to look at my truck???" hes says "no no no thats not what i said... im just not going to go out of my way to speak to RAM corporate about your issues or to look into things deeper if we dont find them initally." Im like you are refusing to work on my vehicle because i wont cahgne my scores. That is absolutely ridiculous!

He goes on to tell me well you chose to modify your vehicle and alter it. If you didnt put those LARGE HEAVY tires (emphasized this) on your vehicle then you wouldnt have these issues. These all void the warranty. Your tire winch would be fine with stock tire. The issue is that the tire wont fit under there and thats why it doesnt fit. I said no the tire fits fine (its only 32.4" which is like barely 1" over stock i believe) and the tire weighs pretty close to stock weight. I told him its the mechanism thats stripped out not the tire winch not working. IT will get the tire off the ground. I asked what the stock tire weight was and he couldnt tell me. I told him well if its the same or close to that of my spare then how am i wrong here? He couldnt answer.

He also told me because i took my battery out of my truck when it died and "went ahead and replaced it myself and took that initiative that he cant help me there." Hes like well how do i know thats the stock battery? Im like what did you want me to do? MY truck was dead in a autozone parking lot and you guys refused to give me a loaner and refused to look at my truck until 4 days out? hes like "well you should have jump started it, drove it here and left it and we would have replaced it." I explained that then i would have to have a rental car and pay $35 a day for 4 days for you to MAYBE consider it replacable under warranty. Hes like well thats what you needed to do.

In the end of the conversation hes like well i dont know what else i can do for you here. If you dont want to redo your survey then we cant help you unforunately. I explained that i would happily submit a survery ONCE they look at it again and we agree together whether its broken, or not. He said well sorry no we will not look at your truck you will have to take it to another dealer!

I have never EVER felt so off put, and disrespected by a company. This makes me NEVER want to own another RAM truck again. I LOVVVEEE my truck but its not worth it with all these BS people working for RAM.

I will say i am in contact with Andrea from RAMCARE and i know she will do everything she can to make it right and i do not blame, or think badly about her or anyone who work for RAM CARE because they have helped me out before and i know they truly care about us as owners/ customers. However, i can not say the same about the dealerships or service department.

I also called the dealer back and left a message with the director of the service department to file an official complaint because that was some straight up disrespect and BS. You can not force a customer to change his survey as a condition to look at his vehicle.

This is just my two cents, u can take it how you want it. Or disregard all together

This post is quite hilarious. Now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that the dealer is an a$$hole in saying he will re-send you a server and blah blah whatever.

However, with the issues at hand, as a dealer technician, I'd basically tell you the same thing on the tires/tire ***** issue, however, I would have started with shutting you up and putting a new tire winch under it so you know that it was your tire size and weight (if it was an issue) causing the problem. Now because you didn't give any description about whatever issues you may be having, I can't comment on the rest of your service experience. But IMHO I believe you are one of the picky unpleasables. I see them every day, the modifiers who complain when the vehicle doesn't act or drive as it would if it were completely stock. As far as rental cars goes, manufacture warranty should cover any kind of WARRANTY repair for about 3-5 days, so you wouldn't have had to pay 35 a day for a rental car. I don't know where u got the rental information from. Now his might just be bad dealer info or you ASSuming you'd have to pay for a rental car, but Chrysler does pay for warranty and at times automatically comes with first day rental, now this is all assuming you are still under warranty as I wouldn't think you are since your complaint about the issues you're complaining about as you are.

I'm sorry, but some of you ram owners are just frekin cry babies. If you have an issue, and the dealer can't find it , then we can't fix it, I get in customer vehicles every day that have an "issue", and I ride with them and they can't duplicate it to save their lives. Chrysler techs don't get paid to drive you car around only to not be able to duplicate a concern, so naturally we are gonna NTF it and send it back home. I don't waste my time with crap like that. I need something to fix. If it's working, then it's working.

I don't mean for this post to be completely negative and you may be 100% valid in your complaints , but to speak of lawyers and whatever else ( I just skimmed the post) you're being absolutely rediculos. Go find another shop or another dealer that's gonna tend to your personal needs. I'd turn you away at my dealer. My brother and sister in law are the same way, they bi*** and complain about the good things we did for them in all of the issues they had that we eventually fixed, and they still complained after the fact. Guess who's brother and sister and law are now never going to have their vehicle serviced at my shop where I work? Yeah, I will not check in their vehicles no longer. A dealer can and will reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

Rant over. I hope you get whatever resolution you were looking for. Good luck.


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[jotin]

Are you serious?



Why would you guys even take possession of the truck if you're 7 days behind? Tell the customer you need them to drop it off a in a few days, instead of their current appointment. It's not rocket science.

Because it's not about the appointment. I still have to know whats exactly wrong, if the part is in stock and how long the repair itself takes. People don't understand how busy shops can get. I have 10 vehicles on my tool box at any given point in time. I'm constantly busy, and constantly pestered about "how long will this take". If you can't leave it, find a less busy shop, but I'll tell ya the less busy shops are less busy for a reason.


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[AFMoulton]

Because it's not about the appointment. I still have to know whats exactly wrong, if the part is in stock and how long the repair itself takes. People don't understand how busy shops can get. I have 10 vehicles on my tool box at any given point in time. I'm constantly busy, and constantly pestered about "how long will this take". If you can't leave it, find a less busy shop, but I'll tell ya the less busy shops are less busy for a reason.


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Can you really be serious? This is how things are done in automotive maintenance?

Well I had customers too, called pilots, and we didn't have a choice to just take 10 days to do something, we had to be done by a deadline, and guess what we were. That's the problem, the automotive mechanics (not all of them) take their sweet ass time working on things and getting them done.

I had a crew of 21 guys and we worked an 8-12 hour shift, we were responsible for the maintenance on 25 airplanes, and we NEVER ran long or had to push the date back. Everyday I had over 40 Maintenance actions that needed to be complied with for the next days flying, ranging in length from a few minutes to 12+ hours of work. If we could exactly duplicate the issue, we would run it down to the most likely cause, instead of just Could Not Duplicate.

Oh we didn't get paid hourly. Personally this is a **** poor attitude and it's what causes customers to ***** and complain about service. My grandfather ran a service department for Buick/Pontiac for 47 years, and he never told customers that they would have to wait a week. He gave REALISTIC timelines to get things fixed and he made sure it got done.

I don't get how you can just have 10 tickets sitting around. Don't make appointments if you can't keep the time and start work when I show for my appointment.


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[adrianp89]

Because it's not about the appointment. I still have to know whats exactly wrong, if the part is in stock and how long the repair itself takes. People don't understand how busy shops can get. I have 10 vehicles on my tool box at any given point in time. I'm constantly busy, and constantly pestered about "how long will this take". If you can't leave it, find a less busy shop, but I'll tell ya the less busy shops are less busy for a reason.


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This guy is a clear example of why people hate dealers. Stick to third gen section.

 

[tsielski]

Very interesting thread with good points on all sides.

I've been in and around automotive repair a while, working in a small town dealership's service department as a min wage helper back in the 60's as a summer job (for 3 summers) when I was in high school, on and off over the years, but mostly as a customer who has owned over 25 cars over the years of varying manufacture, and interfacing with the service departments of at least that many dealerships in many locations across the country, and in Europe.

Back in the day, as it were, a service departments interface with customers was through the service manager. If that person was a professional, his shop was run well, and he had good mechanics working for him. Work demand, was driven by both the quality of service rendered and the population density of the area. Managing service customer expectations with the complexity of the repair at hand was one of the more important aspects of a service managers job.

With the introduction of the service writer, the dealer service operation added a new variable. Unfortunately at least in my experience, I've not dealt with many service writers who I would describe as being knowledgeable, technically and mechanically, about the vehicles for which they were scheduling maintenance and repair. They essentially were issue managers. The issues being the work each vehicle needed. Too many had no idea what it would take to do x or y, and if pressed, had to go and speak with a technician who was busy with something else to explain it to them.
A few dealer service departments had service writers who wouldn't know a 13mm box-open end if it was crammed up their 4th point of contact.

Unfortunately, in this area (northern VA), the population density, and vehicle density is such that every dealership's service department is always busy regardless of the quality of the work performed, or the customers perception of the service experience. There are dealerships in this area who have outstanding service departments and others not so.

The key I believe is the quality of the service writer, their vehicle knowledge, and how they, and the shop overall is managed by the service manager. From the OP's first post, at face value, it seems that dealers service department had some issues.

Good, professional, competent, service writers will make the difference between a good service experience, or a terrible one. They will know what work is needed for a particular vehicle, know approximately how long it should take, and manage that expectation with the customer. And before a job is released, a good QC to ensure everything on the ticket is done.
There are a few dealerships with service departments like that in this area, but unfortunately not the majority.

 

[jotin]

Can you really be serious? This is how things are done in automotive maintenance?

Well I had customers too, called pilots, and we didn't have a choice to just take 10 days to do something, we had to be done by a deadline, and guess what we were. That's the problem, the automotive mechanics (not all of them) take their sweet ass time working on things and getting them done.

I had a crew of 21 guys and we worked an 8-12 hour shift, we were responsible for the maintenance on 25 airplanes, and we NEVER ran long or had to push the date back. Everyday I had over 40 Maintenance actions that needed to be complied with for the next days flying, ranging in length from a few minutes to 12+ hours of work. If we could exactly duplicate the issue, we would run it down to the most likely cause, instead of just Could Not Duplicate.

Oh we didn't get paid hourly. Personally this is a **** poor attitude and it's what causes customers to ***** and complain about service. My grandfather ran a service department for Buick/Pontiac for 47 years, and he never told customers that they would have to wait a week. He gave REALISTIC timelines to get things fixed and he made sure it got done.

I don't get how you can just have 10 tickets sitting around. Don't make appointments if you can't keep the time and start work when I show for my appointment.


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That was then. This is Now. You have no idea.


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[jotin]

That was then. This is Now. You have no idea.


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And maintenance is different than actual repairs. Maintenance is not the same as warranty work. If you worked at a dealer, specifically for FCA. You'd understand.



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[jotin]

This guy is a clear example of why people hate dealers. Stick to third gen section.

Go to a 3rd party shop and get your warranty work done. Trust me, dealerships will not be sad. Oh wait, you can't. So stop ******** because you can't get your work done and suck it up. You guys are such babies[emoji58]. Jesus


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[AFMoulton]

That was then. This is Now. You have no idea.


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Now you have even better tools to diagnose problems than they did then. Yes there maybe more problems, but there is better technology to diagnose.

Don't give me the that was then this is now I have no idea, the airplanes I work on are a millions times more complicated than any of these vehicles. We don't ever say it will take a week, unless supply cannot get us a part, then we find a way to make it work. DYDJ.

It boils down to customer service, and some customers are assholes, and don't make promises you can't keep.




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[jotin]

Now you have even better tools to diagnose problems than they did then. Yes there maybe more problems, but there is better technology to diagnose.

Don't give me the that was then this is now I have no idea, the airplanes I work on are a millions times more complicated than any of these vehicles. We don't ever say it will take a week, unless supply cannot get us a part, then we find a way to make it work. DYDJ.

It boils down to customer service, and some customers are assholes, and don't make promises you can't keep.




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I get your point of view and I respect it. But you have no idea what we as technicians have to deal with as far as Chrysler goes. Especially with the newer vehicles. And don't even get me started on part availability. I waited a month to get a simple instrument cluster once. Most parts are 3-5 days availability , some are unavailable and some can be overnighted. I see your point of view again, some shops are huge, my shop is not. That at times warrants longer wait times, but expectations are set when customers call in or come in, and 90% of people are cool with it, wether they get a service loaner, enterprise loaner or just simply have another way to get around. It all depends on the situation


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[DRkNESS]

My gosh after reading all of the back and forth lol, I forgot about the real reason op posted.


Father Of Four

 

[randallwoodward]

I get your point of view and I respect it. But you have no idea what we as technicians have to deal with as far as Chrysler goes. Especially with the newer vehicles. And don't even get me started on part availability. I waited a month to get a simple instrument cluster once. Most parts are 3-5 days availability , some are unavailable and some can be overnighted. I see your point of view again, some shops are huge, my shop is not. That at times warrants longer wait times, but expectations are set when customers call in or come in, and 90% of people are cool with it, wether they get a service loaner, enterprise loaner or just simply have another way to get around. It all depends on the situation


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Here is where my frustration lies with the wait time. My last experience was Go to dealer, drop off truck, explain issue. get a ride to work. later that day I get a call from the dealer and was told what the issue is. they schedule me 5 days out because they are booked..No worries, the truck is still driveable. 5 days later, I drop off my truck, talk to the service manager and i'm told the repair will be 3 days max. I'm fine with that. get a ride to work and make my own arrangements for travel the next 3 days. 3 days come and go and I don't hear from the shop. on the 4 day I call the shop and i'm told they haven't gotten it in the shop yet!! WHAT??? why not I ask? we got really backed up he says. I said YOU told me you had the tech assigned to do the job, why did you pull him from my truck to do other jobs? Well we had a tech call in sick...this 3 day repair ended up being nearly two weeks. I mean, I get being busy but I don't eccept having a tech pulled off my job that was scheduled a week in advance to have him do walk in oil changes and other things that people are sitting at the shop waiting for their vehicle. Not to mention the fact that I got NO, Zero phone call while my truck was believed to be getting fixed. I'm not saying you or your shop works this way but there is NO excuse for bad customer service. Give me a call, tell me what's going on. I'm not unreasonable. But to tell me 3 days later when I expect to pick up my fixed truck that you haven't started yet..I could have been driving it for those 3 days. Lucky I had another vehicle to use because if I was paying for a rental I would have been bullsh**t