Synthetic Oil

[AFMoulton]

So Amsoil SS is a rather thin 30wt like around 10cst@100C. For comparison M1 5w30 is higher than 11, Redline 5w30 is 11.9. Most Hemi's seem to like an oil around 11.5cst. By mixing in some 0w40, it will be closer to the 11.5+cst range.

Am I correct about why you're mixing in 0w40 @AFMoulton?

Yep! Exactly right, I’m after the higher cst, and the higher moly counts. The Durango loves it so far, went from quiet to even more smooth.


2018 2500 6.4 4x4 4.10 Amsoil SS 0w-40, Softopper
Black Rhino Armory 18x9 +12mm
Cooper St MAXX LT295/70R18

2016 Durango 5.7 AWD 3.07 Amsoil SS 4 Qts 5W-30 and 3 Qts 0W-40
1996 Nissan Altima 2.4 Amsoil SS 5W-30

 

[corneileous]

Ok, lemmie try this approach: I mean, this is a discussion forum so, let’s discuss it but, if I was to take U&A’s suggestion- which was to keep buying the PUP for record keeping purposes and use it in say, my mom’s car so I don’t have to go through the whole ordering it and canceling it stuff, what is the consensus on what oil you guys would recommend I use since my records will still continue to show that I’m staying warranty compliant? I’m pretty much sold on the Wix Xp filter so, I’m gonna keep using that. A filter is a lot harder to hide and quite frankly, I’m not really interested in carrying around a new Mopar filter to have to remember to spin on before the tow truck takes off with my pickup. And then having to explain why my oil filter mysteriously looks brand new...lol.

I’m almost pretty convinced that as long as I do my oil changes regularly, and use a good quality synthetic so there shouldn’t be any chance of sign under the rocker covers that I wasn’t if something were to happen since they most likely won’t test the oil after that to make sure(or even attempt to verify that I’ve been using the oil that I say I’ve been using), I should be ok to use whatever I want. And keep in mind, I want, good quality. I want my motor to be happy. I know I will have warranty for as long as I own this pickup but, just like with my very low deductibles on my full coverage insurance, I’d rather not use it. Same thing here. I don’t want my pickup spending a large amount of time in the shop for a new engine, even if they pay for it, just so I can have the satisfaction of them being wrong with what they expect millions of people to follow along to. Make sense? I kinda think that most of you mistake me for thinking I want to take what Chrysler says for gospel and, I don’t. No ********. But, things can still happen. And I certainly don’t want using what’s right to give them an excuse to void my warranty and force me into a whole bunch of legal battles and such.

As far as the 30w vs 20w debate, I’m still not totally convinced, but at the same time I’m not totally opposed to it either. As long as the heavier oil doesn’t affect my MDS, that’s really all that matters.

Oh, and one other thing: y’all’s input- I’m not even sure if it matters or not but, the wix xp filter I use is an exact, OEM replacement that’s supposedly formulated for 20w oil according to what the wix guy I talked to said. That’s why I use it, I feel it probably doesn’t get any better than that for giving warranty less of a reason to ***** about it but if I were to switch to 30w, would I need to change to a different filter? I spoke with a Royal Purple rep and I’m pretty sure he said that filter most of y’all use was fine with whatever weight.


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[SyN]

I myself laugh at a rep telling a customer - We create/designed our XP filter around certain viscosity of oil!
Sorry but in my mind - That is total !

Very similar to owners believing or falling for the theory that FCA had their goofy A$$ engineering department design the 5.7L around the CAFE created 20Wt.

Corn: My only recommendation would be to run a brand & viscosity of oil that carries all the FCA written specifications for your new 5.7L.
Keep all receipts & record every service!

Then Hope/Pray your 5.7L stays silky smooth & quiet!
Every owners definition of this is different!
Good Luck Sir! I know your intentions are all good & well warranted.

My neighbors 2016 Ram w/5.7L - 2 houses down sounds like a 1956 Singer sewing machine with missing parts.
It is Horrid sounding!
I can plainly hear this disaster 2 houses down! It literally hurts my ears!

I walked down & asked him what brand & viscosity of oil he ran - his answer was what ever the quick lube place pours in it! whatever it says on the oil fill lid.

I just shook my head & walked away.

 

[AFMoulton]

There is no debate about 20W vs 30W, 30W is better. Period. The results prove it, and it’s been proven not to mess with MDS


2018 2500 6.4 4x4 4.10 Amsoil SS 0w-40, Softopper
Black Rhino Armory 18x9 +12mm
Cooper St MAXX LT295/70R18

2016 Durango 5.7 AWD 3.07 Amsoil SS 4 Qts 5W-30 and 3 Qts 0W-40
1996 Nissan Altima 2.4 Amsoil SS 5W-30

 

[16RamHemi]

@corneileous i think you need to choose which side of the fence you want to be on. side 1 is all about warranty. ask your dealer to provide you a list (or pick one or 2 and have them approve it in writing) of oil that works with warranty. then go by their specs for warranty service and maintenance. again, get everything in writing.

side 2 is do what's best for your truck. cash out what you can with your ext warranty and do your own maintenance and repairs. guys on here are showing how different oils help this motor. these hemis need moly. they tell you what oils have moly. adding in a 40 wt is typically to up moly #s and other important additives. these are important additives for these hemis. its all options. we all need to do our own research.

people are all in on redline 5w30. why is that? there is scientific evidence of its positive attributes to these hemis. is it a cure all? no. nothing is. pup is another great oil for these hemis (its not a whats best argument, we are stating whats best for the hemi).

from reading your stance on these things in many of your posts, it seams to me you want ram to fix any problem on your truck with your warranty. thats a fine approach. but remember, MOST dealers are going to look for the needle in the haystack to deny you. Mistake #1 IMO is having faith in a ram service dept / fca. i would rather use an oil that we know will be good for the weaknesses of my motor. we know the mopar stuff does not cater to these weaknesses. its not in fcas best interest to make these rams last forever. again, trust the science. dont take anyones word. research why an oil is better than another for your specific motor.

it makes me sick to my stomach how many stories i read about people getting denied for warranty even though they did nothing wrong. look at the f150 example above. thats unbelievable. but look how quick someone pointed out how common those failures are/were . so the good thing is knowing the weaknesses. then we can do what we need to do to address them.

 

[corneileous]

I myself laugh at a rep telling a customer - We create/designed our XP filter around certain viscosity of oil!
Sorry but in my mind - That is total !

And you may very well be right. Who knows, maybe it’s because they make that filter to match and exceed Mopar, maybe that’s why they say it’s spec’d to run 20 weight, because they call it a OE replacement. I’m not necessarily saying I do believe it’s engineered around a specific weight of oil but I have no reason not to.

Very similar to owners believing or falling for the theory that FCA had their goofy A$$ engineering department design the 5.7L around the CAFE created 20Wt.

How in the hell is that even remotely close to the same thing?? FCA probably tells its customers what they tell them based on the likes of the EPA, and for that added protection for them to deny a claim because you used a heavier oil. Probably made that oil life meter the way it is on purpose just to cut down on the amount of used oil.

Corn: My only recommendation would be to run a brand & viscosity of oil that meets all the FCA written specifications for your new 5.7L.
Keep all receipts & record every service!

Then Hope/Pray your 5.7L stays silky smooth & quiet!

But why, Sy? What U&A said sounds like a pretty failsafe idea to run what I want without running what I’m keeping records of. Besides: if the PUP- or basically anything 20w is that damn bad, why would I even have to worry about something bad happening within the first what, 100,000 to 120,000 miles since I’d be running something better that FCA’s formula which is probably only guaranteed while the factory warranty is still active?


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[corneileous]

Every owners definition of this is different!

I realize that! I’m not asking to be told what the hell to use! Just asking for suggestions! Just asking for experiences! Just asking why you all like what you like! I realize that you, or anybody else furfthat matter can’t make this decision for me!

My neighbors 2016 Ram w/5.7L - 2 houses down sounds like a 1956 Singer sewing machine with missing parts.
It is Horrid sounding!
I can plainly hear this disaster 2 houses down! It literally hurts my ears!

I walked down & asked him what brand & viscosity of oil he ran - his answer was what ever the quick lube place pours in it! whatever it says on the oil fill lid.

I just shook my head & walked away.

Yeah, I’m not that guy. I’ve never been that guy and I will probably never be that guy.

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[16RamHemi]

buying stuff to return or use in another vehicle for a receipt is a fine idea. problem is, what are you going to do when your dealer says "no problem, we will cover that cam/lifter job, we just need to send out an oil sample for a uoa to make sure its the right oil". uh oh.

odds are they wont. but look at the ford example. only takes 1 service advisor with a clever way to save fca some money to ruin your day. so again, do not provide ammo. we could do EVERYTHING right for what these trucks need. and can still get a failure . thats just life. if you have a couple grand tied to a warranty, then that is the route you should probably go. esp if you have no tic.

 

[corneileous]

@corneileous i think you need to choose which side of the fence you want to be on. side 1 is all about warranty. ask your dealer to provide you a list (or pick one or 2 and have them approve it in writing) of oil that works with warranty. then go by their specs for warranty service and maintenance. again, get everything in writing.


side 2 is do what's best for your truck. cash out what you can with your ext warranty and do your own maintenance and repairs. guys on here are showing how different oils help this motor. these hemis need moly. they tell you what oils have moly. adding in a 40 wt is typically to up moly #s and other important additives. these are important additives for these hemis. its all options. we all need to do our own research.

Sooo, there’s no happy medium? I really don’t wanna cash out of my warranty. Not when that air suspension has had a pretty poor track record, and an 8-speed transmission that has no service interval at all. [emoji118] I kinda want my warranty around for when that thing craps out after virtually no maintenance.

PUP is Chrysler compliant. So is that Amsoil XL among with a few others. That’s all that Chrysler requires, and that it be API certified too. I’ve been using PUP because that’s what the majority of people run who stay within spec.

But I get what adding the 40 wt was for. It’s been covered. But why not just add a moly product instead of virtually doing the same thing by throwing the formula off with either just adding straight moly or a whole different weight oil?

people are all in on redline 5w30. why is that? there is scientific evidence of its positive attributes to these hemis. is it a cure all? no. nothing is. pup is another great oil for these hemis (its not a whats best argument, we are stating whats best for the hemi).

I may just try that some day. So far the PUP’s been fine but as I said, it’s still a young motor. Will it still be a good choice once I hit 25,000, 40,000 or on above. 50, 60,000? I dunno. That’s what I’m curious about. My last Hemi- 3rd gen, 2008, ran just fine on Mobil 1 full synthetic 5w30.

from reading your stance on these things in many of your posts, it seams to me you want ram to fix any problem on your truck with your warranty. thats a fine approach. but remember, MOST dealers are going to look for the needle in the haystack to deny you.

I know that. That’s why I have to be careful. And it’s not so much the dealer[if you get a good one], it’s FCA that calls the shots.

Mistake #1 IMO is having faith in a ram service dept / fca. i would rather use an oil that we know will be good for the weaknesses of my motor. we know the mopar stuff does not cater to these weaknesses. its not in fcas best interest to make these rams last forever.again, trust the science. dont take anyones word. research why an oil is better than another for your specific motor.

Exactly. I didn’t buy this truck to get rid of once the warranty’s out. I bought it to have for many years to come. That’s primarily why I don’t give **** one about what they say and why I want to run what’s better, but still keep my warranty for pretty much what I bought it for in the first place.

it makes me sick to my stomach how many stories i read about people getting denied for warranty even though they did nothing wrong. look at the f150 example above. thats unbelievable. but look how quick someone pointed out how common those failures are/were . so the good thing is knowing the weaknesses. then we can do what we need to do to address them.

Again, exactly. I don’t want my truck in the shop, especially for anything motor related.

Now if I was to run the mopar semi-synthetic at 10,000 mile oil changes with a paper element Mopar filter, I’d certainly be wanting my warranty.



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[corneileous]

buying stuff to return or use in another vehicle for a receipt is a fine idea. problem is, what are you going to do when your dealer says "no problem, we will cover that cam/lifter job, we just need to send out an oil sample for a uoa to make sure its the right oil". uh oh.

Good question and good point but as others have pointed out, as long as there’s no sludge when they pull the rocker covers to verify that the oil was being changed, and that since an oil analysis on their part won’t show brand, weight, and Chrysler spec, how would they know anyways? Is their some other oil lab out there that I don’t know about that does an even more thorough oil evaluation as analysis than Blackstone Laboratories does? If there is, that might actually be more of an incentive to just stay with a 20w.

odds are they wont. but look at the ford example. only takes 1 service advisor with a clever way to save fca some money to ruin your day. so again, do not provide ammo. we could do EVERYTHING right for what these trucks need. and can still get a failure . thats just life. if you have a couple grand tied to a warranty, then that is the route you should probably go. esp if you have no tic.

I wish I knew if they would or not. It’s interesting that a Phord dealer required it but quite a few Ram owners here said that they wouldn’t even be considered.


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[tjfdesmo]

PUP is great oil. If your engine is quiet with it I'd stay with it. That was my original plan, but my 6.4 didn't agree.

 

[corneileous]

PUP is great oil. If your engine is quiet with it I'd stay with it. That was my original plan, but my 6.4 didn't agree.

I know your 392 is a different bear from my 345 but what was it about the PUP yours didn’t like, and how far along did yours not like it?


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[tjfdesmo]

It amazes me that OEMs supposedly recognize oil analysis now. I had two junk Fords with J-U-N-K 6.9 In-trash-national cornbinder diesels that had horrendous oil consumption issues. I sent out for UOA, and the iron content was so high that Blackstone called me on the phone to ask if the engine was still in service before mailing the report. Ford told me they did not recognize UOA as a valid means of diagnosis. I got into a knock down drag out argument with some ******* at the Ford district office over it.

 

[tjfdesmo]

I know your 392 is a different bear from my 345 but what was it about the PUP yours didn’t like, and how far along did yours not like it?


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They are not very different in the valvetrain department. Same lifters, same ******** MDS. It didn't take long to get startup clatter, and eventually serious hot tick.

 

[corneileous]

It amazes me that OEMs supposedly recognize oil analysis now. I had two junk Fords with J-U-N-K 6.9 In-trash-national cornbinder diesels that had horrendous oil consumption issues. I sent out for UOA, and the iron content was so high that Blackstone called me on the phone to ask if the engine was still in service before mailing the report. Ford told me they did not recognize UOA as a valid means of diagnosis. I got into a knock down drag out argument with some ******* at the Ford district office over it.

See, it’s stuff like this that just makes me wanna just keep using PUP and keep doing UOA’s every time I do a maintenance. But then again, the dealer and FCA can tell me all day long those oil analysis reports would be considered up until something comes up.


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[corneileous]

They are not very different in the valvetrain department. Same lifters, same ******** MDS. It didn't take long to get startup clatter, and eventually serious hot tick.

So, the startup tic is what’s mainly contributed to the exhaust manifold tick, but the dreaded Hemi tick is when it makes that noise at idle once its long been warmed up?

My old 08 Hemi Ram had a slight intermittent tick at first start and warm up but once it warmed up, it went away.


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[SyN]

Delete: Not worth it!

 

[tjfdesmo]

So, the startup tic is what’s mainly contributed to the exhaust manifold tick, but the dreaded Hemi tick is when it makes that noise at idle once its long been warmed up?

My old 08 Hemi Ram had a slight intermittent tick at first start and warm up but once it warmed up, it went away.


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No, startup clatter is not manifold bolts, it is lifters clattering to beat the band, and can last for a few seconds, or much longer.

To me there are three categories of Hemi internal noise:
1. General noisiness
2. Startup clatter
3. Hot tick-this can range from a tick to a mallet knock

 

[corneileous]

Delete: Not worth it!

Whatever, you did recommend running what FCA says to. The only reason I used all them exclamation points was from yours but you know, no harm, no foul.

And I wasn’t saying you were comparing me to your neighbor. I was just simply stating that I wouldn’t ever be that guy- not to be confused with thinking I was thinking you were!


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[corneileous]

No, startup clatter is not manifold bolts, it is lifters clattering to beat the band, and can last for a few seconds, or much longer.

To me there are three categories of Hemi internal noise:
1. General noisiness
2. Startup clatter
3. Hot tick-this can range from a tick to a mallet knock

Well, maybe that old truck did have the dreaded hemi tick then. I figured it was just the manifold bolts. But it was just kind of a light, ramping up tick like, it would be very quiet, then it would ramp up louder for a few ticks then it would quieten down. But once it warmed up, it was fine.


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