Towing without WDH, Timber Grove?

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FlyFisher99

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Looking for rear suspension anti droop solution that will have no negative impact when not towing. Leaning toward Timber Grove ASAM (SQ7724956), $428-. Looked at Air Lift (1000 and 5000) & Timbren; Timber Gove seems to get better reviews. Anything else I should be considering?

Truck is a new 2023 Ram 1500 Laramie Ecodiesel, no mods. 98% of it’s use will be non-towing road trips (thus, I want to maintain the good ride). I have an Aluma trailer/Jeep combination that is usually towed behind an RV. I might tow it behind the truck 2 times a year (a guess).

Trailer/Jeep combination weighs 5,600 – 5,800 lbs, tongue weight is 600 lbs (I can adjust that based on how I position jeep on trailer, 600 lbs works well for the RV). Truck payload is 1,600 lbs. 600 lbs on the tongue should not be a problem (will be sure to not fill up bed when towing).

Aluma says to not use WDH with their trailers. So, my plan is to counteract the expected rear droop with air bags and keep total payload weight (people and tongue weight) around 1,000 – 1,200 lbs.
 

tron67j

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If you aren't over your payload capacity and GVWR, don't need bags as the truck should handle the weight without sag. If you have sag, your hitch weight is way over 600 pounds. Plus, you say you will tow 1-2 times a year and that is a lot of expense and future repair for the effort.
 

mrack

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Aftermarket bump stops are never your best option. Get a good set of dual rate coil springs.
 

joesstripclub

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I don't think you need anything for your setup, just hook up and tow. I had a 2018 1500 hemi and I towed a 16 ft enclosed trailer with a side by side all over colorado, often loaded up with camping gear as well. I think the trailer and SxS was 4000 lbs, plus whatever gear we took camping, and the truck towed it with no issue. I think as long as you keep the tongue weight reasonable you should be fine.
 

2003F350

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The advice given above is sound.

You may well be just fine with the truck/trailer combo as it is, I'd say get a WeighSafe hitch so you know what your tongue weight actually is. Since it's a flatbed with a load, you can adjust the location of the load somewhat to keep your weights in line. For only a couple tows a year, this would be your most economical solution to keep your unloaded ride where it is.

If you DO want to modify something, a new set of rear springs would be your best bet. IIRC the new 1500s have progressive rate springs, so yes they sag more than most people expect but they aren't truly overloaded. Dual-rate or even just heavier duty springs with the same overall height will eliminate your sag, but again it costs money and could potentially void your warranty since it's a 2023. Air bags/bump stops could also void your warranty.

I don't understand why a trailer company would say not to use a WDH with their trailers - perhaps the GVW of the trailer is too low to need one? In which case you may already be overloading the trailer? I have a 7k car hauler, steel, I don't NEED a WDH for it (and therefore don't use one with it) but nowhere have I seen where the manufacturer says NOT to use a WDH hitch with it.

Personally? For two pulls a year, I wouldn't bother doing anything to the truck and just adjust where the Jeep sits if it's too much weight.
 
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FlyFisher99

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Thanks for the feedback. Will find an excuse to tow somewhere, tweak tongue weight by jeep position on trailer, and see how it handles. Won't rush out to buy air bags.
 

Jas34

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Thanks for the feedback. Will find an excuse to tow somewhere, tweak tongue weight by jeep position on trailer, and see how it handles. Won't rush out to buy air bags.
That sounds like the best option, especially with a new truck and progressive springs.

FWIW, on my 2017 (stock non-progressive spring), I have a set of Timbrens that a previous owner put on. I actually like them when it's heavily loaded. They control the sag and body roll, and beef up the suspension when needed, but have no effect when the truck isn't loaded.
 

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You don't need anything, suspension wise, for 600 lbs of tongue weight. Just use a WDH and call it a day.

Trucks have rake to accommodate for a little sag. This is by design.
 
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FlyFisher99

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WDH is not an option, per my trailer manufacturer.
 

ramffml

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I can't recommend the air lift 1000. They are not shocks, they are just bags they stuff in between the coils to make it harder for them to compress. You can't put more air in them and then lift the truck (for example), or remove air and have the truck squat.

I had them and found the unloaded ride quality to be more jarring even at the recommended min 5 psi. That may not matter to you, just depends on how much you want to keep that stock feel.

I'd also avoid Timbrens. We have reports of cracked frames right where the timbrens contact the frame, they basically transform a soft cushy suspension into something like a rock that hits your frame hard over and over again causing stress/fracture.

I'll never run any suspension helper on my truck again. If I can't fix my issue with a WDH then I'm in the wrong truck. However in your case, the timber grove asam might be the best option (or other true air shocks, not ones that sit in the coil like the air lift 1000).
 

Riccochet

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I can't recommend the air lift 1000. They are not shocks, they are just bags they stuff in between the coils to make it harder for them to compress. You can't put more air in them and then lift the truck (for example), or remove air and have the truck squat.

I had them and found the unloaded ride quality to be more jarring even at the recommended min 5 psi. That may not matter to you, just depends on how much you want to keep that stock feel.

I'd also avoid Timbrens. We have reports of cracked frames right where the timbrens contact the frame, they basically transform a soft cushy suspension into something like a rock that hits your frame hard over and over again causing stress/fracture.

I'll never run any suspension helper on my truck again. If I can't fix my issue with a WDH then I'm in the wrong truck. However in your case, the timber grove asam might be the best option (or other true air shocks, not ones that sit in the coil like the air lift 1000).
Had the 1000's in both of my 1500's. Never noticed a change in ride quality when they were aired down. They did help reduce sag and bounce while towing my travel trailer. Never had an issue with them. They're not load levelers. They're load helpers.
 

ramffml

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Had the 1000's in both of my 1500's. Never noticed a change in ride quality when they were aired down. They did help reduce sag and bounce while towing my travel trailer. Never had an issue with them. They're not load levelers. They're load helpers.

As I said, they definitely change the ride quality, whether you care about it is a different story. At 5 psi they're still doing something in the coil, at 3 psi or less they began to squeak and at that point its obvious that the coil was sliding over the bag instead of compressing the air inside it.
 

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The timber groove bags replace the bump stops- i go up to bout 6500lbs with my trailer and its nice to be able to adjust the bags for my preferred ride height. I have on board air so that's the only thing about bags that could be an issue- when not towing i just keep some air in them per there recommendations. My truck tends to see some random extremes so its good to always be able to adjust if needed. Never know when a pallet of blocks or a rental dump trailer may end up behind it. going on 5 years with no issues - i also use WDH so i have invested in a couple items to "not find out" or have any worries other than having enough gas in the quickly draining tank.
 

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I saw a test on YouTube that showed that lifting the rear of a tow vehicle w airbags and a trailer actually increased the rear axle load, while a proper WDH decreased it. I also don't understand why a trailer manufacturer would prohibit use of a WDH.
 

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I saw a test on YouTube that showed that lifting the rear of a tow vehicle w airbags and a trailer actually increased the rear axle load, while a proper WDH decreased it. I also don't understand why a trailer manufacturer would prohibit use of a WDH.
Some trailer frames, especially the smaller travel trailers, are not strong enough to take the torque/stress that a WDH puts on it.
 

turkeybird56

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Some trailer frames, especially the smaller travel trailers, are not strong enough to take the torque/stress that a WDH puts on it.
The all aluminum frames, like Alumna, are not strong enough to take the force, stress at the frame points they the WDH attached to. Now I have read of People re-enforcing the area and doing a WDH, that be a personal decision to do and also more research. I just have a 2,150 LB WW Stock. I do not use WDH because I don't carry a heavy load far and that trailer is an 06, all steel, but has only even been out of state once. Now just for haul hossie, pick up Big Stuff or get hay, all local runs.
 

Tulecreeper

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The all aluminum frames, like Alumna, are not strong enough to take the force, stress at the frame points they the WDH attached to. Now I have read of People re-enforcing the area and doing a WDH, that be a personal decision to do and also more research. I just have a 2,150 LB WW Stock. I do not use WDH because I don't carry a heavy load far and that trailer is an 06, all steel, but has only even been out of state once. Now just for haul hossie, pick up Big Stuff or get hay, all local runs.
Even some of the older steel frames are "C" channel instead of tubular and they are also not strong enough.
 

turkeybird56

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Even some of the older steel frames are "C" channel instead of tubular and they are also not strong enough.
My old 2006 is definitely strong enuf, weighs in empty at 2,150 lbs, argh. But alas, I do not own or even use since I only tow local.
 

Hardracer

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I saw a test on YouTube that showed that lifting the rear of a tow vehicle w airbags and a trailer actually increased the rear axle load, while a proper WDH decreased it. I also don't understand why a trailer manufacturer would prohibit use of a WDH.

I might have saw something close to the same.
Video said something about taking weight off the front with air bags and the WDH forced the front down if I remember right...
 
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2003F350

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I might have saw something close to the same.
Video said something about taking weight off the front with air bags and the WDH forced the front down if I remember right...
It's not so much that it takes weight off the front (it can, potentially) with bags, but it's that it doesn't return any of it to the front, or to the trailer. It keeps it over the rear axle, just lifts it higher. A WDH moves weight back to the front axle and back to the trailer axles, relieving the rear axle of some of its load. It doesn't really fight squat, but rather spreads the squat out so that (hopefully) the truck and trailer return to a level state, which is better for towing.
 
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