Transmission Service Comments

[Wild one]

thank you, I don't have a lot of digital pics but will take some when I get caught up on other

I think there's a few of us,who'd really enjoy some pics and write up on it. Any idea what you've got into the car money wise?

 

[TJP440]

I think there's a few of us,who'd really enjoy some pics and write up on it. Any idea what you've got into the car money wise?

hard to guess as it's been a lot of years since I built it. I finished it in 92 or 3. I'd estimate ~ 30K back then. In todays money ~ 65K. That was with my doing all the labor on the entire car including body and paint. The only thing I farmed out was ~ 80% of the upholstery. I machined the air cleaner and a lot of other parts. The dash insert has 13 separate pieces to the assembly.
Also machined the Air cleaner, center caps for the wheels with Pentastars milled into them, battery hold down, spacers as needed and made the Tri-Y headers. I covered the dash and window frames with 1 piece on vinyl each. No seams, Some said it can't be done without seaming. NEVER tell a Polock he can't do something.
lot's more to the story and build but enough for now.
Almost forgot, A LOT of BUD LIGHT was consumed while doing so but that stopped along with smoking 8.5 years ago

 

[TJP440]

Take some pics of your setup, please.

Pic's on the "setup" are still coming, have other "LIFE" things consuming my time

Also for those that have interest in the pre 80 vehicles, there's a lot of pic's on my website. There are several pages accessible just under the banner at the top.
The main pic's should rotate but clicking on the black dot's underneath will go to the next picture.
On the individual pages clicking on a picture SHOULD open it for better viewing.

For those with a sense of humor make sure to check out "Bubba's Shop" You will find a SMALL sample of things we've encountered over the years.
HMM, Feel like I just wrote the transmission service procedure
Should probably change some things but I'll likely be taking the site down soon.
OOPS!!!
HMM, might help to include the link
LINK TO SITE
I'll blame it on the mental stress from the trans service

 

[EdGs]

Pic's on the "setup" are still coming, have other "LIFE" things consuming my time

Also for those that have interest in the pre 80 vehicles, there's a lot of pic's on my website. There are several pages accessible just under the banner at the top.
The main pic's should rotate but clicking on the black dot's underneath will go to the next picture.
On the individual pages clicking on a picture SHOULD open it for better viewing.

For those with a sense of humor make sure to check out "Bubba's Shop" You will find a SMALL sample of things we've encountered over the years.
HMM, Feel like I just wrote the transmission service procedure
Would probably changes some things but I'll likely be taking the site down soon

Understand about life's things. Living that one myself, in the middle of a teardown on my ride ATM.

Having a way to check the fluid level in the ZF without having to close 1 eye, turn around, scratch your butt....would be nice.

 

[TJP440]

here are the promised pic's .
if I were to do this again I would try to eliminate the 90 degree elbow or move the What I think was the A/C drain hose that prevented me from removing the assembled adapter. I forgot to mention how nice it was to have what I thought was fluid dripping while checking the level. Could've just turned the A/C off as well but that would have been to easy in the heat of battle.
Topping of the fluid with just the hose worked well, but I wasn't putting in 7 qts. Having the the hose attached made pumping the sprayer much easier. The sprayers are cheap, possibly cheaper on AMZ ?
Pinching the hose shut is recommended while refilling the sprayer etc.
I would love to pump a 55 gallon drum of ZF fluid up the J/O's backside that "concockted" this abolition

 

[Sherman Bird]

EDITED
I would love to converse or slap the out of the idiot that thought the 8H70 did not need a dipstick and the other one that proceeded to put it in the chassis at the angle they did.
I am almost through with the service having the 15 step pick your nose, scratch your butt crack. Now smell /eat what you found on your finger after the previous steps but only do so in temperatures between 86 and 100 F or your nose and butt may cease to function.
OK enough sarcasm / humor.

I did go with the PPE 1 quart over pan getting it for ~$270 with shipping on my Atech (wholesale account.)
Also bought a new OEM gasket off AMZ for ~ 24.00.
I know they say one can reuse the gasket but not worth 24.00 to go through the first paragraph scenario. Went with Maxlife fluid from Wally World @ 22.00 a gallon x 2.

Didn't know which way the gasket went on but figured out the "nibs" hold it into the machined groove on the pan.
Installed the new gasket on the pan, some attention to the alignment of the holes and making sure the gasket seats properly is required. Haven't seen these two mentioned anywhere so I thought I'd throw them in. I assume the raised rib on the top of the gasket slips just inside the case/housing. In hindsight, I would've wiped a film of fluid to help it do so. Maybe next time Locating the filter was not too bad but it does require firm pressure upwards on the bottom to get the filter tube in, again a little fluid may have helped.
Once in place with 2 screws holding it the remaining ones were installed finger tight. The remaining ones followed. Once all were in, following the torque pattern they were slowly tightened a few times until all were snug.
I believe the above step is critical to align the top gasket rib with the case as well as not tweaking the pan or damaging the gasket.

Again using the pattern, they were then torqued to 72 in lbs. Based on another's experience, I did remove the drain plug and found a DRY O-ring with a few small pieces of aluminum. I cleaned everything, removed and inspected the O-ring. Reinstalled with a bit of fluid on the O-ring and recess it goes into.
Next, how to get the fluid in the easily accessible opening. I found that by peeling the carpet back and drilling a 1 inch hole in the floor pan (gotta love Uni bits ) I was able to use a funnel with a hose. but then I found if I poured the fluid to fast it would splash back and make a mess. Refer to first paragraph.
OK forget the last paragraph
I bought an extra fill /drain plug Dorman # 090-167 (18-1.5mm). Drilled and tapped it for 1/8 NPT. Using a 5/16 barbed elbow with a clear vinyl hose I now had a secure way to get the fluid in without making a flipping mess. I attached the other end of the hose to an extra 2 qt garden sprayer I had (~10.00 at wallyworld). Filled it with fluid and pumped 6.5 qts. in without spilling a drop.
Tomorrow is first paragraph day and should be done
Hopefully some of this will be helpful to another

Ford had the same setup you employed on their 5R55E/W transmissions. The drain plug was within a larger drain fitting such as the dorman unit. Then they made a special standpipe hollow tube which one screws into the drain fitting, which has an extension that sticks up about 1.25 inches into the pan. Filling the unit from the bottom with a bit too much fluid, a guy warms up the vehicle, and allows the excess to drain down to the level of that extension.... easy-peazy!

 

[Sherman Bird]

I've always felt the same way: Why not put a dipstick on the tranny??

I rented an Audi once which didn't have an engine dipstick. I didn't know it until the low-oil warning went off. There was a 5-step process to go in via the LCD screen menu's to see what the oil level was. I didn't think there were as many bars on the graph as there could have been ...to really give a good sense of the oil level. But it was definitely low. It took 2 quarts (diesel).

My favorite one are how everything you'd normally control in a car/truck are all done via the touch-screen in a Tesla. Except the directional ...there's a micro-toggle for that. A carload of people were burned alive locally b/c they couldn't get the (electric) doors opened in an emergency (I know some of the emergency responders). My point is, there's still a place for old-school dipsticks/button & switches ...and manual door pulls.

That's one of several reasons I'm hanging onto my 2012 Ram.

I agree with you. The new cars that slam on the brakes and throw the trans into park when you open your door while backing up is galactically STUPID! Sometimes, one NEEDS to open the door to peek backwards to make a tight maneuver!
I guess our govmint thinks we need a Nanny/ butt wiper!

 

[TJP440]

Ford had the same setup you employed on their 5R55E/W transmissions. The drain plug was within a larger drain fitting such as the dorman unit. Then they made a special standpipe hollow tube which one screws into the drain fitting, which has an extension that sticks up about 1.25 inches into the pan. Filling the unit from the bottom with a bit too much fluid, a guy warms up the vehicle, and allows the excess to drain down to the level of that extension.... easy-peazy!

good idea but I'm not sure it would work on a RAM As the hole to check the level is substantially above the pan rail.
I'm also not sure how much room is between the inside bottom of the pan and the valve body?
It does get one to thinking about filling from the bottom though. Only way I can see to do it is with a valve as you'd lose X amount when putting the plug back in the bottom.
leaving the valve in place would not be a good idea either.

 

[chrisbh17]

here are the promised pic's .
if I were to do this again I would try to eliminate the 90 degree elbow or move the What I think was the A/C drain hose that prevented me from removing the assembled adapter. I forgot to mention how nice it was to have what I thought was fluid dripping while checking the level. Could've just turned the A/C off as well but that would have been to easy in the heat of battle.
Topping of the fluid with just the hose worked well, but I wasn't putting in 7 qts. Having the the hose attached made pumping the sprayer much easier. The sprayers are cheap, possibly cheaper on AMZ ?
Pinching the hose shut is recommended while refilling the sprayer etc.
I would love to pump a 55 gallon drum of ZF fluid up the J/O's backside that "concockted" this abolition

Nice setup! My 2011 G37 is similar...no dip stick, you need to fill from the oddly-thread-size plug. Nissan sells an adapter that does what you did, another aftermarket brand makes one but it aint cheap ($40+). Im going to do similar to what you did and find the right thread size/pitch to adapt it myself.

For future reference you can get a 18mm-1.5 thread to barb adapter, so directly into the fill plug threads and out to a barb that you can put the hose onto. Ebay has em cheap.

 

[Sherman Bird]

good idea but I'm not sure it would work on a RAM As the hole to check the level is substantially above the pan rail.
I'm also not sure how much room is between the inside bottom of the pan and the valve body?
It does get one to thinking about filling from the bottom though. Only way I can see to do it is with a valve as you'd lose X amount when putting the plug back in the bottom.
leaving the valve in place would not be a good idea either.

You've obviously never seen the Ford set up. The drain fitting has a standpipe made on it, integrally. It sticks up above the floor of the pan about 1.25 inches or so. THIS IS FROM THE FACTORY.
There is a small 1/8 NPT plug in the far bottom of said fitting on the very bottom... AKA "Drainplug".
Ford Rotunda makes a special tool to screw into the 1/8 NPT from under the bottom of the vehicle, and pump fluid into the transmission.

Here comes the messy part.... One removes the pump and hose, then unscrews the fitting, all the while getting rained on by ATF.
Then once the 1/8* NPT plug is put back and a precursory wipe off of the general are is done, one hooks up the scanner and runs the engine until the TOT (Transmission Oil Temperature) reading is at 140 degrees, IIRC.

THEN, one removes the 1/8 NPT plug to allow the excess fluid to run out until there is a slight drip. The level inside the trans is now at the top of the standpipe. JOB DONE... well after soap and water cleanup.

One of Ford's other transmissions has it's fill plug on the upper passenger side of the tail of the transmission housing, and it is a NIGHTMARE to get at.

All this in order to keep folks from adding too much fluid to the transmission!

 

[chrisbh17]

You've obviously never seen the Ford set up. The drain fitting has a standpipe made on it, integrally. It sticks up above the floor of the pan about 1.25 inches or so. THIS IS FROM THE FACTORY.
There is a small 1/8 NPT plug in the far bottom of said fitting on the very bottom... AKA "Drainplug".
Ford Rotunda makes a special tool to screw into the 1/8 NPT from under the bottom of the vehicle, and pump fluid into the transmission.

Here comes the messy part.... One removes the pump and hose, then unscrews the fitting, all the while getting rained on by ATF.
Then once the 1/8* NPT plug is put back and a precursory wipe off of the general are is done, one hooks up the scanner and runs the engine until the TOT (Transmission Oil Temperature) reading is at 140 degrees, IIRC.

THEN, one removes the 1/8 NPT plug to allow the excess fluid to run out until there is a slight drip. The level inside the trans is now at the top of the standpipe. JOB DONE... well after soap and water cleanup.

One of Ford's other transmissions has it's fill plug on the upper passenger side of the tail of the transmission housing, and it is a NIGHTMARE to get at.

All this in order to keep folks from adding too much fluid to the transmission!

Toyota is similar, except the 'standpipe' is removable (molded in hex opening). You remove it to drain the pan to replace it, reinstall the pan, plug and standpipe, then fill until it comes out the stand pipe. Close the drain, bring it up to temp (like the Ford procedure), then open the drain and once stuff stops coming out of the standpipe, yer done.

Ford was...that close...to making it a somewhat easy, clean affair.

One of the most important parts is making sure the transmission is parallel to the ground otherwise the fluid gets to the standpipe before the level is correct.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Toyota is similar, except the 'standpipe' is removable (molded in hex opening). You remove it to drain the pan to replace it, reinstall the pan, plug and standpipe, then fill until it comes out the stand pipe. Close the drain, bring it up to temp (like the Ford procedure), then open the drain and once stuff stops coming out of the standpipe, yer done.

Ford was...that close...to making it a somewhat easy, clean affair.

One of the most important parts is making sure the transmission is parallel to the ground otherwise the fluid gets to the standpipe before the level is correct.

When I do a drain and fill on a unit I've worked on before and KNOW the level is correct, I merely drain the transmission and put the drained fluid in a graduated bucket. Then I match the drained amount plus a few ounces extra and pour away. Never had any problems doing it that way.

 

[chrisbh17]

When I do a drain and fill on a unit I've worked on before and KNOW the level is correct, I merely drain the transmission and put the drained fluid in a graduated bucket. Then I match the drained amount plus a few ounces extra and pour away. Never had any problems doing it that way.

Yep I need to (finally) get around to doing our G37 and Lexus. Initial time will drop the pan, clean the magnet(s), change the filter(s), then refill.

After that Im just going to drain/refill...what comes out goes back in.

To be honest I feel like getting all that initial crap out with the first fluid change is most likely all that is ever needed for the life of the trans. No combustion inside, the fluid should stay pretty stable as long as you use good fluid and aren't towing (does not really apply to our trucks, but should apply to our family sedans)

 

[Wild one]

Yep I need to (finally) get around to doing our G37 and Lexus. Initial time will drop the pan, clean the magnet(s), change the filter(s), then refill.

After that Im just going to drain/refill...what comes out goes back in.

To be honest I feel like getting all that initial crap out with the first fluid change is most likely all that is ever needed for the life of the trans. No combustion inside, the fluid should stay pretty stable as long as you use good fluid and aren't towing (does not really apply to our trucks, but should apply to our family sedans)

Clutches wear and create debris,and transmission fluid does deteriorate over time even sitting on a shelf in a bottle.
Even if you don't drive the truck,ZF reconmends changing the fluid every 8 years

 

[TJP440]

Nice setup! My 2011 G37 is similar...no dip stick, you need to fill from the oddly-thread-size plug. Nissan sells an adapter that does what you did, another aftermarket brand makes one but it aint cheap ($40+). Im going to do similar to what you did and find the right thread size/pitch to adapt it myself.

For future reference you can get a 18mm-1.5 thread to barb adapter, so directly into the fill plug threads and out to a barb that you can put the hose onto. Ebay has em cheap.

didn't even think to look for a 18 x 1.5 mm barbed fitting, but the dorman plug I drilled and tapped was only 2.00 and I had the fitting on hand. Being a tightass I went that way. If one had to buy the fittings it would make the e-bay offerings more attractive. Another way I've thought of is for those with the PPE pans, to use the 1/8 NPT temp probe opening with a fitting, standpipe (1/8" NPT ?), barbed fitting on the top of the stand pipe and pressurized pump (garden sprayer).

Fill the pan using the circle jerk method. Put the fill plug back in.
Start motor and perform the pick your nose scratch your butt smell your finger routine until temp is reached.
Bur arms and remove Plug, fill until fluid comes out. Reinstall fill plug burning arms / hands again. Remove barb fitting from standoff pipe and cap with 1/8 NPT cap.
This would save about 1/2 the aggravation of the DA process.
Not really sure it would be worthwhile unless one does a lot of these or changes their fluid a lot.

 

[QwikKota]

Drilling a hole in the cab floor? NOT putting the gasket rib in the groove in the PPE pan? Surely this is some kind of tease?

 

[TJP440]

Drilling a hole in the cab floor? NOT putting the gasket rib in the groove in the PPE pan? Surely this is some kind of tease?

As for the gasket, i was referring to the nibs that are likely there to hold it in the groove. They don't always like to push in flush so a little KY probably would've helped.
And hey the floor pan hole worked great.
A 1" cap plug with preparation H as a sealant was used to plug the hole. I recommend to then follow up with roofing tar. Make sure it sets up before laying the carpet back down or the poor SOB that attempts this will curse you. FYI A heat gun will speed the process.

 

[QwikKota]

Please stop giving any and all recommendations. Some people will take you seriously.

 

[TJP440]

Please stop giving any and all recommendations.
Some people will take you seriously.

They do walk amongst us .

But I thought the hole in the floor pan was a great idea and Uni- Bits are perfect for doing so
I've always said a Sawzall is a hack's tool of choice, but the Uni-bits are not bad either

 

[Sherman Bird]

Someone has been watching Reruns of the Red Green Series!