Watch Idle Hours & Change Oil every 3k Miles to Avoid Engine Failure!!

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kurek

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Nearly all modern cars won't rev over 4k in neutral but they run up to higher rpm in gear when you're accelerating.

Hemis are just coming into power at 4k.

Unlike my old 5.0 Mustang that's about done by 4k.. well it was anyway we'll see how it runs with the new goodies once the snow melts
 
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David_Jacobs

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The lack of lube on the roller bearings is a well documented shortcoming of the current OHV design, failures resulted when they raised the camshaft and didn't allow sufficient lubrication on the cam-roller interface.

I've got about 250 idle hours and 60kkm's, i inspected my roller bearings when I pulled the cam at 55k km's and they seemed fine, but I changed the rollers as cheap insurance. It's really hit and miss with these hemi's.

PS There no such thing as a "hellcat lifter", the part numbers are all the same.
 

HEMIMANN

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The lack of lube on the roller bearings is a well documented shortcoming of the current OHV design, failures resulted when they raised the camshaft and didn't allow sufficient lubrication on the cam-roller interface.

I've got about 250 idle hours and 60kkm's, i inspected my roller bearings when I pulled the cam at 55k km's and they seemed fine, but I changed the rollers as cheap insurance. It's really hit and miss with these hemi's.

PS There no such thing as a "hellcat lifter", the part numbers are all the same.

Do you happen to know whether the first two Hemi generations were solid lifters?
 

flinkpoyd01

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Curious if someone will provide a mechanical explanation of why disabling MDS will have a positive impact on cam/lifter failure. I’m seeing a lot of anecdotal input related to it but I can’t seem to find the mechanical reasoning behind it. Thanks.
 

2012RAM1500RT

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Curious if someone will provide a mechanical explanation of why disabling MDS will have a positive impact on cam/lifter failure. I’m seeing a lot of anecdotal input related to it but I can’t seem to find the mechanical reasoning behind it. Thanks.
I didn't do it for that reason myself, I did it because of the sound I didn't like and it did nothing for my fuel mileage that I could tell. Also something else that doen't have to work and go bad. There's a lot of things that came on my truck I don't need or use so I'd get rid of them also if I could.
 

alex6666

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I heard recently that there has been a class action lawsuit filed in the united states of america against bm for similar lifter/cam problems. Probably the only redress that will prompt a change.
 

kurek

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Curious if someone will provide a mechanical explanation of why disabling MDS will have a positive impact on cam/lifter failure. I’m seeing a lot of anecdotal input related to it but I can’t seem to find the mechanical reasoning behind it. Thanks.

That should be interesting... especially since non-MDS versions of the engine seem just as likely to experience this failure.
 

HEMIMANN

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Didn't @Hemi395 say his tick went away when he turned MDS back on?
We speculated repressurizing the lifter bore with oil during MDS activation helped lubricate those lifters.
No one knew what happens with non MDS lifters, but the oil galley is likely drilled through the entire block - including non MDS lifters.
This would mean only MDS lifters are starved of oil when MDS is off.
 

Hemi395

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Yep that was me. This is the video that prompted me to turn MDS back on. It shows how the lifters get pressurized oil while in MDS.

 

dgarber12771

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"Hellcat Lifters" are already in every Hemi made, post 2015.

If this was a design flaw, it would have cropped up in the 2003-2008 pre-Eagle engines. Since those engines are not known for eating cams/lifters, it must be that one (or more) of the changes made, post-2008, has to be the cause:

1) Something related to VVT affecting oil flow
2) A change in parts vendors
3) A change in idle speed

Since the 6.1 never got VVT, but yet after 2008 also is susceptible to cam/lifter failures, I'm still leaning towards the change in vendors, and/or a change in PCM idle speed.

Does anyone know if PCM programming specs changed, post 08? Did they drop idle speeds?

This just wasn't an issue (and still isn't) with the pre-Eagle stuff. Those engines dropped valve seats, but they did not have this cam/lifter issue.
 

2012RAM1500RT

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I've seen and heard the discussion that the camshaft is further away from the crankshaft which keeps the oil from the crankshaft that slings oil while it is spinning. If I understand correctly there is a windage tray or is built in with the oil pan that keeps the crank out of the oil to help with a little HP. I know that's what we use to do with the one's that didn't come from the factory like the High performance engine did with a windage tray, I/we added them. So I'm not sure the lack of oil from the crankshaft spinning is the problem or not. Anybody know different?
 

HEMIMANN

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Full oil levels shouldn't be above the counterweight, should they? That would lead to foaming. Only a vertical Briggs and Stratton has an oil dipper.
 

Chas0218

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If these engines are needing higher zinc and moly why are people not running diesel or break in oil full time?
 

Chas0218

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In addition to reducing idle hours, and frequent OCIs, one of the no cost things I implemented was raising my idle speed from 550 to 650.

Can not really tell the difference between the two speeds and oil pressure is 42 at idle vs 38.

If you are tuned, this cost nothing and is reversible.
So i saw the other day when the hd trucks are in park you can turn on the cruise hit set then use the plus and minus to bring up the idle rpm. Can anyone verify this?
 

HEMIMANN

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If these engines are needing higher zinc and moly why are people not running diesel or break in oil full time?

Diesel engine oil is totally inappropriate for gasoline engines. I has lower quality base stock oil and extreme levels of detergent dispersant to hold the blowby soot in solution. Diesel oils typically don't contain moly, and they have cut way back on zinc because it poisons the exhaust catalysts required on all modern diesel engines.
 

2020PW

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So i saw the other day when the hd trucks are in park you can turn on the cruise hit set then use the plus and minus to bring up the idle rpm. Can anyone verify this?
You can adjust idle using crusie control buttons on certain 6.4 chassis cabs and all Cummins
 

HEMIMANN

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You can adjust idle using crusie control buttons on certain 6.4 chassis cabs and all Cummins

It's the gas engines that need the idle bumped up, and few go into chassis cans. So this is basically zero help.
 

tron67j

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Yep that was me. This is the video that prompted me to turn MDS back on. It shows how the lifters get pressurized oil while in MDS.

This is another interesting angle of the hemi engine and oil circulation. The hypothesis of replacing lifters and keeping MDS all the time may lead to some real world testing. But I now wonder if the failures (he mentioned 5%) are a mix of construction failures and people either turning off MDS without replacing the lifters (not sure why that would be a problem) or just using wrong/not properly maintaining the oil. If the pressurization is the key to preventing damage (that not caused by unpreventable failure) and MDS all the time is a good thing, how would this work? Is it possible to pressurize but not deactivate 1/2 the cylinders and not cause a new problem?
 

18GSMRam

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This is another interesting angle of the hemi engine and oil circulation. The hypothesis of replacing lifters and keeping MDS all the time may lead to some real world testing. But I now wonder if the failures (he mentioned 5%) are a mix of construction failures and people either turning off MDS without replacing the lifters (not sure why that would be a problem) or just using wrong/not properly maintaining the oil. If the pressurization is the key to preventing damage (that not caused by unpreventable failure) and MDS all the time is a good thing, how would this work? Is it possible to pressurize but not deactivate 1/2 the cylinders and not cause a new problem?
All good points in that video but If MDS all the time is actually the key for pressurization why in the ef would the engineers not keep eco/mds on at idle which is arguably the most critical time of proper lube, not to mention save fuel at the same time, win-win.

Same could be said for tow/haul mode. Also doesn't make sense they would give everyone a way to defeat it by going into manual shift mode
 
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