Will Ram use the Titan v8?

[Kickboxer]

Yes I put like a 3% chance on something like this happening while that arrogant fool is still CEO. However I do think outsourcing a v8 is the most likely option, if they do decide to put in a v8 again.

They can't resurrect the hemi, that tooling has been reworked for the hurricane. Hemi is permanently dead and buried.

The article mentions two other options, a pentastar v8 that was once in development (but would have too little displacement/power for a truck), and a hurricane v8 which would cost lots of money and be a big risk due to possible election results again in 4 years. Outsourcing an existing v8 makes the most sense, as it is cheapest for small runs like this, and quickest to get off the ground.

As for how to market the v8, that's the least of their issues. See Ford for how it can be done very successfully.

Ford blows the sparkplugs out the holes......so much for that.

 

[nlambert182]

Say what you want, but I've ran 87 in it and it causes knock. I can run at least 91 in it and that goes away. Around here, 93 is more prevalent than 91. Move along.

 

[tjfdesmo]

The 6.4 Hemi is still in production, so I doubt the tooling went to the scrap yard.

 

[ramffml]

Ford blows the sparkplugs out the holes......so much for that.

The 5.0 is probably the most reliable v8 in a half ton at this point. It's not the v8 that keeps me from buying an f150, that's about the only attraction for me to that truck.

 

[ramffml]

That engine will do just fine on 87 octane, so don't give us that
excuse. 91 is all most states have.

Not true. Guys here on this forum and other charger/challenger forums have data logged their hemis on 87 and it's not healthy at all to run 87. Keep in mind that knock sensors are reactive, the knock occurs first (because it really wants the higher octane, that's what its tuned for and gravitates towards), it hears the knock using what are basically specialized microphones, then ******* timing. Knock/ping is not healthy.

Just another one of those FCA things, they tell you one thing (87 is "ok") but you should definitely ignore them.

I was caught out in some small rural town once a few years ago and needed to fuel up with 87 while towing my trailer home, hour later I was going up and down some good grades and the pinging I heard was terrible, like a scurry of squirrels up front shaking their marbles. Never again.

 

[ramffml]

The 6.4 Hemi is still in production, so I doubt the tooling went to the scrap yard.

From the article, the "them" refers to the 5.7 and 6.4 SRT

There is a big obstacle to either of them: the machinery is being used for the Hurricane Six, and their more unique tooling may not be usable or available.

I don't think anyone knows for sure what is what, but the hurricane is being produced in the same plant that used to produce the 5.7 down in mexico, probably some factory space/lines are repurposed, that's not that hard to imagine. The hurricane is a global engine, they need to use that engine everywhere now so a small run of 5.7s or whatever, I doubt it's possible even if they didn't scrap anything. Could just be as simple as not having the floor space.

 

[JHoward]

The 5.0 is probably the most reliable v8 in a half ton at this point. It's not the v8 that keeps me from buying an f150, that's about the only attraction for me to that truck.

Yep, and currently an v-8 can be ordered for an f-150 half ton regular can short bed ... who offers that anymore?

I'm not a FORD person, but I like a regular short bed with v-8 power and so this appeals to me.

 

[nlambert182]

The 6.4 Hemi is still in production, so I doubt the tooling went to the scrap yard.

Scrap yard... probably not. If they can modify tooling and save on the cost that's what any manufacturing plant I've ever worked in will do. It's the very first consideration for the plant manager. Bean counters have to evaluate up front the cost to change over and then work to reduce that cost.

The 5.7 and 6.4 are produced in the same plant. While they may be able to use some of the tooling interchangeably, if there is no need for the tooling (since they already have it for the 6.4 line) it is likely to have been swapped over for the Hurricane.

 

[nlambert182]

Yep, and currently an v-8 can be ordered for an f-150 half ton regular can short bed ... who offers that anymore?

I'm not a FORD person, but I like a regular short bed with v-8 power and so this appeals to me.

Same here. I was a Ford fan for decades. The 10 speed ruined that for me. If they had a more reliable transmission behind it I'd still consider an F150 with a 5.0 if I needed a gas burner.

 

[nlambert182]

Ford blows the sparkplugs out the holes......so much for that.

That hasn't been an issue since 2003 and the 5.4 2 valve engine.

Ford solved that in 2004 with the 5.4 3 valve and then moved over to snapping plugs off in the head. The 5.4L went away in 2010, and that hasn't been an issue at all on the 5.0 Coyote.

To add.... I've personally owned 7 5.4 Triton engines and never had an issue with any of them. Kinda like the Hemi lifter issue. It isn't quite as common as some made it to be.

 

[turkeybird56]

The 5.0 is probably the most reliable v8 in a half ton at this point. It's not the v8 that keeps me from buying an f150, that's about the only attraction for me to that truck.

The junkola tranny and inferior interior keeps me away. I would run a F 150 if the Interior was decent and did not have to worry about the tranny going to chit. IMHO, the 8sp 8HP75 bout the best tranny out there these days.

 

[nlambert182]

Truth there.... Our last 2019 Expedition Limited model had the cheapest feeling interior known to man. Both our Armada and my Ram interiors blow it out of the water.

Ram really has a lot going for it, despite some shortcomings (as they all have).

There used to be a day where I desperately wanted an F350 with a 6.7 Cummins and an Allison transmission. Nowadays, I've learned that Ram pretty much nailed it for the most part. I would not be upset at all with seeing Ram drop a 5.6 Endurance engine in it, if they're not bringing back the Hemi. Guarantee that if they can get the two to play nice and stick the ZF8 behind it that it would be quite the combo.

 

[turkeybird56]

Truth there.... Our last 2019 Expedition Limited model had the cheapest feeling interior known to man. Both our Armada and my Ram interiors blow it out of the water.

Ram really has a lot going for it, despite some shortcomings (as they all have).

There used to be a day where I desperately wanted an F350 with a 6.7 Cummins and an Allison transmission. Nowadays, I've learned that Ram pretty much nailed it for the most part. I would not be upset at all with seeing Ram drop a 5.6 Endurance engine in it, if they're not bringing back the Hemi. Guarantee that if they can get the two to play nice and stick the ZF8 behind it that it would be quite the combo.

Be worth buying not to have MDS

 

[Burla]

Maybe, maybe not. A lot of guys like me just want a simple/reliable v8, I'm not particularly attached to the hemi.

The options in this scenario for Ram owners wouldn't be "hemi vs titan", it's "any v8 vs turbos/ev" and you may be surprised how many would take the v8. It has a good reputation on truck forums, certainly not worse than the hemi has been.

Amen, I wouldn't mind a 351 Windsor with my ram for that matter. I think for this to happen, we would need an agreement between the leader of this country and the manu's that give them license to leave CAFE, which I would say it possible now. we will see. But my real guess since ram was the first to go all in with the hurricane type di engines with their entire lineup with the exception of the 700hp model, I serious doubt they will go back. If they did, it would probably be the hemi, but yeah I think most guys would actually want a simple v8 as their engines, not saying a huge % more, but more of us then not. If somehow CAFE went away and they built something like a Windsor v8, that would literally be the only way I would buy a new ram, and in fact I would buy a new ram. Even if our president suspends CAFE which I believe he said he would, I doubt any manu will have the guts to do it, and my guess is stellantis would be the last to even think about doing it.

 

[turkeybird56]

If they just Ford upped the interior and upgraded and fixed tranny geez

I would luv to have a ram with a Titan 5.6 unda the hood. Buy in a second to get rid of mds. But the RAM mds seems to be better than GMs DFM cluster junk.

 

[mikeru]

Amen, I wouldn't mind a 351 Windsor with my ram for that matter. I think for this to happen, we would need an agreement between the leader of this country and the manu's that give them license to leave CAFE, which I would say it possible now. we will see. But my real guess since ram was the first to go all in with the hurricane type di engines with their entire lineup with the exception of the 700hp model, I serious doubt they will go back. If they did, it would probably be the hemi, but yeah I think most guys would actually want a simple v8 as their engines, not saying a huge % more, but more of us then not. If somehow CAFE went away and they built something like a Windsor v8, that would literally be the only way I would buy a new ram, and in fact I would buy a new ram. Even if our president suspends CAFE which I believe he said he would, I doubt any manu will have the guts to do it, and my guess is stellantis would be the last to even think about doing it.

Not sure what you mean by "simple V8". Given current emissions and fuel economy standards I don't think there is anything simple about any modern engine compared with engines from even 20 years ago. If you're talking about a V8 without cylinder deactivation or any kind of mild hybrid system then I agree completely. I don't see it happening, but I'd buy one as well.

The results of the last election will likely only delay the march to ZEV's. Auto companies are somewhat used to responding to the political changes that can happen every four years, and are forced to make decisions based on long term trends. In the end there is a very real chance than anything that happens in the next four years will be reversed anyway. So I don't see them investing a lot into bringing back a V8 option. I really hope I'm wrong about that.

 

[nlambert182]

I'm not so sure that the ZEV march will continue at it's current pace long term. Ford, Toyota, and Volvo are already scaling down their EV lines and keeping the gas burners in place.

The military also has a ZEV mandate in place that they can't meet now. I can tell you that the Army is nowhere near getting the support infrastructure in place to support EV. Last year the Army Climate Strategy for non-tactical EVs was set for 2028 and it has recently shifted to 2035. I suspect it will shift to >2040 by this time in 2026.

They're having difficulty getting working charging stations. In some places where they were able to get charging stations they've since found that the infrastructure required to run the stations isn't sufficient as-is to power any reasonable number of chargers. So... they're having to upgrade facility infrastructure to handle the added loads. All of that takes a lot of time, and even more money.

I attended the FY24 Energy Exchange in Pittsburg this past March and it was discussed in depth. No one really knows or thinks that this is going to continue on forever.

 

[bgenlvtex]

There is no world where integrating an engine completely foreign to all other aspects of the vehicle is more cost effective than keeping what they have. Just integrating parts alone into the system would be monumentally expensive.

On the personal level, I absolutely would not buy a Ram with a Nissan engine

 

[rzr6-4]

Not true. Guys here on this forum and other charger/challenger forums have data logged their hemis on 87 and it's not healthy at all to run 87. Keep in mind that knock sensors are reactive, the knock occurs first (because it really wants the higher octane, that's what its tuned for and gravitates towards), it hears the knock using what are basically specialized microphones, then ******* timing. Knock/ping is not healthy.

Just another one of those FCA things, they tell you one thing (87 is "ok") but you should definitely ignore them.

I was caught out in some small rural town once a few years ago and needed to fuel up with 87 while towing my trailer home, hour later I was going up and down some good grades and the pinging I heard was terrible, like a scurry of squirrels up front shaking their marbles. Never again.

It's strange that you've had so much trouble with 87. I think I've ran one tank of 91, with no discernable difference. I've run 87, 88, 89, and on several occasions E30 (94) and I've never had any knock or noticeable difference in power. I don't tow super often but when I do it's usually kind of heavy, as I've been in the 20k pound neighborhood a number of times and even then, never an issue with 87. My brother's ram has the 6.4, tows all the time, and I know for a fact he only runs 87.

 

[nlambert182]

There is no world where integrating an engine completely foreign to all other aspects of the vehicle is more cost effective than keeping what they have. Just integrating parts alone into the system would be monumentally expensive.

On the personal level, I absolutely would not buy a Ram with a Nissan engine

If they still had the line set up for the 5.7 Hemi, it would make sense to keep it. Otherwise, outsourcing could be lucrative. Less overhead for the engine being #1. Employees, mfg space, mfg tooling, ordering raw materials, etc..

You're right though.... outsourcing the engine has never been done.

Cummins/Nissan
Cummins/Ram
Cummins/Isuzu (overseas)

Navistar/Ford
Isuzu(Duramax)/GM
Renault/Nissan & Mercedes
Alfa Romeo Giulia/Ferrari
PSA/BMW
Pagani/Mercedes
Aston-Martin/Mercedes
Lamborghini/Audi
Lotus Evora/Toyota