1500's are really this useless? - Hit the CAT scale today - Disgusted

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D A

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Wow! I thought I was going to be the first to question tow and payload numbers today after I just weighed my 2013 Laramie 1500 CC loaded 4x4 to the tune of 6220 lbs with only myself (175lbs) and a full tank of gas! All my thunder is gone!!! Anyway I did this as we were starting to get serious about travel trailers but don't see that possible if my GVWR is only 6800 (white door sticker) and the little yellow door tire sticker says max wt 855 lbs! Two observations, one, if Ram intentionally misleads us then why spend more with them on the 2500? Two, do the other truck guys play the numbers the same way? After today's weigh in, I am totally lost about what to do with my truck now (or glorified family car as long as no one is over 200lbs).
 

69GWC

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It is really sad what they have done to them in the name of great ride quality.
Its a truck not a car or suv so its fine if it rides alittle rough, but for some reason going for best in class ride is more important that going for best in class hauling and towing.

TTC-1211S, Timber Grove air bags and a Hellwig sway bar make a huge difference in the truck not to even bring up getting a LT tire on it rather than car tires.
 
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Thorvald

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Wow! I thought I was going to be the first to question tow and payload numbers today after I just weighed my 2013 Laramie 1500 CC loaded 4x4 to the tune of 6220 lbs with only myself (175lbs) and a full tank of gas! All my thunder is gone!!! Anyway I did this as we were starting to get serious about travel trailers but don't see that possible if my GVWR is only 6800 (white door sticker) and the little yellow door tire sticker says max wt 855 lbs! Two observations, one, if Ram intentionally misleads us then why spend more with them on the 2500? Two, do the other truck guys play the numbers the same way? After today's weigh in, I am totally lost about what to do with my truck now (or glorified family car as long as no one is over 200lbs).

Lovely isn't it. My Jeep Unlimited Rubicon (4 door) has a sticker that shows 850lbs carry capacity on it... ****** jeep can carry more than some pickups. Crazy

My new name for my truck (as I posted in another thread) is "Minivan with a bedliner".... lol.

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Shop around, you will see that the Ford F150 offer crazy capacity (close to 3K) with the right options but honestly screw the 1500's, it still doesn't have the rest of the "muscle" to handle larger trailers. Go straight to a 2500, just be sure to check the door stickers as once again, you can get "3/4 ton soccer mom trucks".

I love the look of the Ram and the interior but man it will be a hard choice when I move to the 2500/3500. Going to spreadsheet the crap outa them before I make any choices and check stickers first.

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On a side note, we pickup our new Travel Trailer tomorrow so we'll see just how "bad" my truck is with a good sized trailer.

Cheers
Tim
 

GsRAM

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Lovely isn't it. My Jeep Unlimited Rubicon (4 door) has a sticker that shows 850lbs carry capacity on it... ****** jeep can carry more than some pickups. Crazy

My new name for my truck (as I posted in another thread) is "Minivan with a bedliner".... lol.

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Shop around, you will see that the Ford F150 offer crazy capacity (close to 3K) with the right options but honestly screw the 1500's, it still doesn't have the rest of the "muscle" to handle larger trailers. Go straight to a 2500, just be sure to check the door stickers as once again, you can get "3/4 ton soccer mom trucks".

I love the look of the Ram and the interior but man it will be a hard choice when I move to the 2500/3500. Going to spreadsheet the crap outa them before I make any choices and check stickers first.

---

On a side note, we pickup our new Travel Trailer tomorrow so we'll see just how "bad" my truck is with a good sized trailer.

Cheers
Tim

Good deal. Good luck Tim. I think when your research is concluded, you'll like the ram hd best as i did, overall. The soccer mom 3\4s you reference are typically diesel 2500s, but remember, 2500s are derated intentionally by the OEMs to keep them 10k gvw gross. Or just buy a 3500 srw and be done, but they are basically the same truck these days
 

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We will have to wait and see what Ram does with the next gen 1500. Hopefully they found a way to fix the payload issues but still retain a nice riding truck. But i suspect they prioritize ride over payload because most buyers do care more about the ride than the payload. A lot of people now are buying pickups and not towing or hauling with them, which there's nothing wrong with IMO. Just sucks when you realize the 1500 wont do what you want it to. Which is what happened to me.
 

Rzrman328

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A lot of people now are buying pickups and not towing or hauling with them, which there's nothing wrong with IMO.

I more so fall into this category.

I like having the offroad capability when needed. The bed is great for when I need to throw crap in the back like wood or my quad. Then when I occasionally have to pull my 16ft trailer it's good to know I have the capability for that as well.

But ya, 99% of the time it's a grocery getter and I could careless what my payload is tbh lol plus, I just think every family should have a truck in the stable if possible.
 

mohemipar

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I more so fall into this category.

I like having the offroad capability when needed. The bed is great for when I need to throw crap in the back like wood or my quad. Then when I occasionally have to pull my 16ft trailer it's good to know I have the capability for that as well.

But ya, 99% of the time it's a grocery getter and I could careless what my payload is tbh lol plus, I just think every family should have a truck in the stable if possible.

I need the capability of an HD around 4 times a year or so. And other than that its my daily driver and go anywhere do anything vehicle. Obviously not the best when it comes to fuel economy but i knew it going in and dont care. Also bought it because it is just more "business like" and no nonsense from a technical standpoint over the 1500 which i enjoy. I am more of a function over form kind of person. And its just great being in a big tall and comfy vehicle every day. You can see easily and I have noticed people don’t try to run you off the road or drive like assholes as much around you in this truck.

Its none of my business why people buy what they buy. If someone buys an HD truck to use once a week to go the store I could care less. Its no different than those who buy a ZR1 or a Porsche or even a Hellcat and don’t take it to the track or drag strip. How many Camaro or Corvette owners take their car to a track but the huge selling point of the car is its handling lol..
 

mtofell

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But i suspect they prioritize ride over payload

Most shoppers don't know enough to even look until AFTER they buy the truck. The ride can't be ignored on the test drive. Maybe I have a cynical view but it wouldn't surprise me.

Reading the threads in here ever spring is more predictable than the sunrise. Everybody wants a 35' 3 slide trailer with their 1500 and can't understand what the problem could be. In many cases they've already bought the trailer and can't get the headlights to stop pointing at the sky.
 

D A

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I guess I'm lucky that my primary reason for my 13 Laramie wasn't to pull a 50 foot fifth wheel, I just wanted to be able to haul stuff back and forth to my country lot. I also wanted to be able to haul a car/car trailer from time to time. The travel trailer idea just came up in the last couple of months and I'm glad I haven't purchased yet. Having said this, I would realistically be interested in just how many modern 1500 owners are currently towing 5-7 thousand pound travel trailers without issues or if most eventually felt safer moving to a more HD vehicle.

Don
2013 Ram 1500 Laramie Hemi 4X4 Crew Cab
 

VernDiesel

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It's not that Ram 1/2 tons are less capable. I suspect it's the cya lawyers. Here again is standard axle 1/2 tons ranked by combined axle.

Mfg-GVWR-steer-drive- combined

Toyota 7,200 4,000 4,150 8,150
GM. 7,200. 3,950 3,950 7,900
Ram. 6,950. 3,900 3,900 7,800
Ford. 7,000. 3,600 3,800 7,400
Nissan 7,100. 3,500 3,800 7,300

If Nissan can get away with the GVWR of 7100 on a combined axle of 7300 Ram should be able to raise their's. Would bumping the GVWR make the truck more capable? No it would only help with the payload sticker that offends people & riles the payload police.

Taking the time to scale your TV & wet TT and learning weight distribution and WDH adjustment is the only actual way to find out what meets specks and will be safe & stable.

Here is a guy we recently helped;
baseline, him and truck
Steer 3,120
Drive. 2,680
Total. 5,800

Axle weights with TT & WDH as set up by the "pros" at the RV dealership.
Steer 3,000
Drive 3,980
TT. 6,400

Same Ecodiesel TT & WDH after adjustments
Steer 3,340
Drive 3,540
TT. 6,520

At CVWR of 14,000 and with his existing hitch. He meets all specs. His TW is at the top of the range at 15.6 percent meaning going as low as 10 percent he can free up more of his GVWR or payload if he needs to.
 

spoon059

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If you are stopped for whatever reason, they only care about what is registered weight. Meaning, your vehicle registration. For example- I register my 2500 to 11340Kgs (25000lbs) which is more that Rams rated GCWR, and WAY more than the GVWR of 10000lbs. I do that for cushion and would be completely legal on any road (unless the roads weight was otherwise specified by the Ministry of highways) in Sask, door stickers and manufacturer ratings be damned, at that weight as long as my tire ratings weren't exceeded.


Things are a bit different in the U.S.

Good info for Canadian members though.

State Troopers and DOT service vehicles on interstates in the U.S. do carry plate scales in their vehicles. My neighbor got ass ***** in fines and his insurance dropped him when he rear ended another vehicle while being over weight.
Riccochet, things are the exact same in the United States. If we are talking LEGALITY, in other words, what a police officer could stop you and write you a citation for, there are 2 things that matter. The first is your paid registration. The second is federal bridge regulations for tire ratings.

#1 is paid registration. My prior truck was a 2010 Tundra. It had a GVWR of 7200 lbs. In Maryland you can register a vehicle for 7000 lbs or 10,000 lbs. If I registered for 7000 lbs, I would have "lost" 200 lbs of payload on a vehicle that already has a low payload. Instead I paid for the 10,000 lbs registration, which cost me about $20 a year more. Assuming that I had sufficient tires, I just legally raised my payload by 2800 lbs... tripling what Toyota wrote on my sticker. There is nothing any police officer could have done about it, as it would have been perfectly legal.

#2 is tire rating regulations. I'm not as familiar with these, since these really only affect commercial motor vehicles. I believe that the weight limit is something like 20,000 lbs per axle. In other words, if I have a 2 axle truck like a pickup, federal bridge regulations state that I can not load either axle to over 20,000 lbs. That means that theoretically I could load my Ford Ranger to 39,999 lbs (if I paid my registration and had a CDL) and there is NOTHING a cop could do to stop me... assuming that I could get 39,999 lbs moving with a Ford Ranger.

The numbers on your truck's sticker are a WARRANTY RATING, nothing more.
My Ram 2500 has AAM axles that are rated for 10,000 lbs by AAM. In theory, with the correct suspension upgrades and tire upgrades, I could load 20,000 lbs on my Ram and be within manufacturer (AAM) specs.
My 2500's tires are rated to 3700 lbs (give or take) each. In theory, I can load 7400 lbs per axle, or 14,800 lbs total in my Ram and be within manufacturer (Nitto tire) specs.

These numbers are the starting point for "negotiations" in a civil lawsuit trial if you were ever to get into a collision with your vehicle. The plaintiffs would argue that the GVWR is the maximum weight you can carry, causing you as the responded to present data as to why your vehicle was safe to carry whatever weight you loaded. For this reason, and this reason alone, it makes it easier to purchase a 1 ton truck instead of a 3/4 ton truck. The specs are the EXACT SAME between both vehicles, but the 3/4 ton truck is artificially de-rated to give a 10,000 lbs weight rating to keep it below an arbitrary weight rating... but the vehicles are exactly the same.

When it comes to these half ton trucks in question, Ram clearly built them with comfort as the priority. Ability to haul weight was much further down the list. The OP could go through his truck and determine what is the weak link and make upgrades there, if he likes. I would assume tires and suspension are the weakest link, as those have the biggest impact on ride quality.

Figure out your tire's weight carrying capacity at the PSI recommended on your placard. Add those 4 weights up and I bet its pretty close to what Ram states is your GVWR. Simply swapping out tires to a heavier load range would give your truck more capability. Timbrens or airbags that stiffen up the soft suspension will give your truck more capability. The problem with half tons usually comes down to the FRAME, WEIGHT and BRAKES. You need enough frame keep your truck together, you need enough weight to safely anchor your truck as a towing vehicle and you need enough brakes to safely stop the truck.
 

spoon059

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I will take that challenge.

Florida. If you cause an injury accident and you are found to be over your weight ratings, you can be charged with a felony. I believe Texas is another state with similar laws but I'm getting this second hand from an RV forum. I can't make sense of the postings about California laws but my takeaway is they have strict laws for private towing.

Before Farmers would insure my RV (through Foremost) they wanted to know the VIN (which they also insure) of the tow vehicle to be assured of its capabilities. This isn't a law but their requirement which does yield a lower premium rate.
BossHogg, can you post the section of law that pertains to that? I have never been a cop in Florida, so I can't speak from experience, but I have never heard of this and my best friend is a Sergeant in Tampa and isn't aware of any law like this.

In regards to insurance... it covers your liability if you are a drunk driver and in a wreck, so there is no way that they can deny you coverage for being overweight...
 

spoon059

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I more so fall into this category.

I like having the offroad capability when needed. The bed is great for when I need to throw crap in the back like wood or my quad. Then when I occasionally have to pull my 16ft trailer it's good to know I have the capability for that as well.

But ya, 99% of the time it's a grocery getter and I could careless what my payload is tbh lol plus, I just think every family should have a truck in the stable if possible.

Before I bought a travel trailer, I was in the exact same boat. I had several half ton trucks and they were fantastic for a homeowner. I can go to the the hardware store and buy some big items and transport them home myself... I can take stuff to the dump for free rather than pay for an oversize item pickup... I can buy mulch for the wife's flowerbed... Even though I didn't haul heavy, it was so much easier to have a pickup truck for household projects. That is the intent of most half ton pickup trucks... to be a light utility vehicle when needed and to be a relatively comfortable vehicle the rest of the time. I don't see Ram substantially beefing up the half ton truck... that's why they sell 3/4 and 1 ton trucks!
 

spoon059

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Having said this, I would realistically be interested in just how many modern 1500 owners are currently towing 5-7 thousand pound travel trailers without issues or if most eventually felt safer moving to a more HD vehicle.

Don
2013 Ram 1500 Laramie Hemi 4X4 Crew Cab
5-7000 lbs should be okay with a half ton truck. I towed 6500 lbs with my half ton and it was fine. Much more than that and a 3/4 ton or heavier is just a better vehicle for towing. When you consider 13-15% tongue weight, firewood, toys for the kids, bikes, etc... its quite easy to exceed payload ratings in a half ton truck.
 
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Thorvald

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Awesome info guys, love the Axle rating table of the various manufacturers. If you look at it that way I guess I'm not so bad off "payload wise":

3900 lbs Steering
3900 lbs Drive
7800 lbs Max total on axles
5880 lbs Wet Curb Weight

Leaves 2000lbs of capacity before exceeding the axle ratings.

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By the way, we picked up the trailer yesterday (32 foot Grand Design 2800BH, 28 foot body).

38499538151_3d9eca0c43_c.jpg

With no cargo but battery/LP tanks full etc the tongue weight on my Sherline scale was just shy of the 700 mark (680-690). Hooked it up with the Husky Centerline TS and after an hour drive home on normal roads and highways with lots of hills she towed like a dream.

37784444234_fcf41bc9c4_c.jpg

Gas mileage was nothing impressive (Hemi Gas...) but came out to average 24L/100Km when done (roughly 10L more per 100K). So that should get me just over 400km on a tank (96L tank). Not great but not as bad as the Jeep was.

However what WAS impressive was the POWER. Good god, even with the 6300 lbs or so on the back I had tons of pedal and rpm left at all times. Really not used to that, the Jeep was struggling up hills with the old trailer (however put it in 4 wheel low and I was able to unstick anything short of a fully loaded semi lol). Most of the time I forgot the trailer was there and gave it a “little too much gas” at a light and she just pulled like a train without issue.

Only thing that drive me nuts was the “Tow Haul” feature turns off when you shut off the truck for gas or anything. Have to keep pressing the button to turn it back on but no big deal. I did like how the rear park sense automatically disabled when a trailer was connected.

I’ll wait till the spring (she’s going into storage soon) and load er’ up with cargo, kids, etc and then see how I feel but so far happy (never got the chance to have a nice semi pass me at highway speed to see if she was pulled in badly).

Diesel 3500 will be the next truck in a few years though, those all black Grand Design Momentum toy haulers are too nice to pass up lol.

Cheers
Tim
 

spoon059

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Nice camper, that is on the longer side, but the weight is right in the sweet spot for that truck. Looks like you are sitting level and the tires aren't bulging. When you tow, I would air up to your max pressure to give a little more beef to the tires. If you feel squirmy or squishy when you are loaded up, you might want to invest $1000 and get some load range D or E tires and that will make your truck very solid!

Have fun and drive safe!
 

mtofell

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In regards to insurance... it covers your liability if you are a drunk driver and in a wreck, so there is no way that they can deny you coverage for being overweight...

X2

In my work with houses I often hear people claim they wouldn't have coverage if someone were to do non-permitted work or things like that. Just like loading up a truck far beyond the max and plowing into a school bus, the insurance company must cover you.

If it weren't for people doing dumb things there really wouldn't be much need for insurance.
 

Sweetee

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I know I'm getting in late, but have been following this since it began. Had a '12 RC Express with a HEMI that served us well. Always wanted to step up to a Laramie and finally started looking this summer. After going forth and back for a while, I decided to go with the Pentastar. So far, I have been super happy with the features, mileage and comfort. I too am disappointed with the payload, but can work with it. We only tow occasionally using an enclosed cargo trailer that is licensed at 6000 lbs. If I'm alone in my truck and I have 600-750 lbs on the tongue, I'm below the GVWR.

The problem comes in that most everyone I know who has a 1/2 ton truck here in WI registers their truck with a "B" plate that is good for 6000 lb. I took my truck to our local cooperative and weighed it yesterday. Mind you, I have a BedMat and Leer topper on my Laramie. With a full tank of fuel, "Big Red" weighed in at 5800 lbs! The problem comes in that if I get in my truck, I'm over my registered weight. Needless to say, I promptly sent in a request to convert my "B" plate to a "C" plate which gives me 8000 lbs. to play with.

The difference in cost is $22 per year, but that is a small price to pay for being legal in the eyes of the DOT! :) 95% of the time I'm by myself, but having that cushion is a relief. With my truck alone weighing 5800 lbs, I have a 1000 payload of people and "stuff" according to the sticker and what RAM says. None-the-less, averaging 20+mpg is a great trade-off for a little more towing capacity for what I need.

My final comment is I'd rather be legal in the "eyes of the law" and be out an additional $22.00! :)
 
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69GWC

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Its funny how the states do so much different.
Mine has "under 12m" tags like every other 1 ton and under truck in Kansas..
 

VernDiesel

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28' floorplan is still comfortable for the 1500 with good setup per the scales. See my examples of the dealer set up and after our adjustments. What can I say about the fuel consumption. My ED would average 14 mpg with that towing at 65.
 
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