Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.
Did I miss the part where you installed the higher capacity oil cooler ?
More power means more energy, which is more heat.
Heat transfer through the cooler is proportional to oil flow rate. As you are noticing lowish oil pressure, wouldn't a hellcat oil pump be the way to go? Bigger pump, higher oil flow pushing through those extra coolers and filters, more heat taken out of the system.
Not a 392 expert here, just an engineer thinking.
8So I've got a 2013 crew cab with 3.92 rear gears, 8HP70 swap, and 392 swap with MMX NSR cam, stock bottom end, ported manifold, etc. This oil (Redline 5w-40) runs HOT and we're not even into summer (I am in TX).
Little background - fall of 2020 my 165K stock 5.7 decided to tire out and with the cost of new trucks and what I had recently put into the truck, I decided to keep it and upgrade the engine. Then I spent the following 2 years dealing with weak transmission issues and ended up swapping to an 8HP70. I finally got everything buttoned up and have been daily driving the truck since last summer/fall. At that time, when cruising 90 down the highway, I noticed the oil would routinely get well over 240-250F and raise the coolant temp up to around 220F - I have a 185F coolant thermostat that actually works but the delta between the engine's fluids could only be so high. Even putting around, the oil would always get over 220F and would probably average around 230F with reasonable highway speeds (60-70MPH), the coolant could somewhat manage this delta and would lower a bit, maybe around 200F.
So late last fall I put on an oil cooler (34 row 59K BTU) with 185F thermostat in the filter sandwich adapter. One of the problems with this setup was I had to use the small oil filter due to the 1.75" thick sandwich adapter. I thought the oil pressure was down ~5 PSI but I think it may be closer to a 10 PSI drop with the large cooler, I foolishly wasn't recording oil pressure and temperature on my logs until recently. Well that cooler got me through winter (great temps, pressure not so much) but I never liked the small filter and stumbled across a low profile sandwich adapter that allowed me to use the large filter (RP 20-820) and I put this on around mid-January. I did not realize that this low profile adapter did not have a thermostat of any kind and was full flow to the cooler all the time. So I took that off after two weeks and removed the cooler entirely and have been running nothing for about a month now but this oil is HOT and our ambient temps are only around 80F in the evening when I drive home. The coolant gets up 200F with the oil well over 240F cruising at 90 MPH for around 15-20 miles. The coolant falls back down to 185-190F when cruising at reasonable highways speeds and the EOT falls to around 220-230F.
So without the cooler, for oil pressure I would have low 60s at cold start idle, high 60s into the 70s at cold cruising, high 50s/low 60s warm/hot cruising, and plummet to high 30s at idle (800 rpm for cam). So I adjusted my tune (HPT) to raise idle depending on oil temp and basically it is unaffected until around 176F I bump it up to 825 (800 base), 875 rpm at 212F, and 975 rpm @ 240F all scaling between and it keeps me in the high 40s oil pressure at warm-hot idle. I would prefer higher idle oil pressures but c'mon 975 rpm idle on a street engine with tiny NSR cam seems about the limit of reasonable.
So with that said, what are other 392 truck owner's experiencing? I know this engine has the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool and I am sure they are working which is heating the oil considerably more than the 5.7 but also lowering idle oil pressure. Any other engine I would be okay with that pressure but these engines, particularly the lifters and camshaft, don't like to idle with low oil pressure. What would you do in my shoes?
1. Run 5w-50 oil - I already have to keep this handy for the Roush-charged mustang so it would allow me to consolidate engine oils.
2. Remote dual filters (30-8A)
3. Run the large oil cooler I have with a remote dual filter setup, would be rather expensive in parts setup
4. Run a smaller oil cooler
5. Run a smaller oil cooler with remote filter(s)
6. Hellcat oil pump - last ditch effort, I don't really want to tear into this
7. Moroso High Cap oil pan - also don't really want to headache with this
8. Some fancy A2W setup - big $$$
9. Nothing, f'in send it!
10. Some combination of choices or other??
2019 bighorn runs 200 w. 215-220 oil alwaysSo I've got a 2013 crew cab with 3.92 rear gears, 8HP70 swap, and 392 swap with MMX NSR cam, stock bottom end, ported manifold, etc. This oil (Redline 5w-40) runs HOT and we're not even into summer (I am in TX).
Little background - fall of 2020 my 165K stock 5.7 decided to tire out and with the cost of new trucks and what I had recently put into the truck, I decided to keep it and upgrade the engine. Then I spent the following 2 years dealing with weak transmission issues and ended up swapping to an 8HP70. I finally got everything buttoned up and have been daily driving the truck since last summer/fall. At that time, when cruising 90 down the highway, I noticed the oil would routinely get well over 240-250F and raise the coolant temp up to around 220F - I have a 185F coolant thermostat that actually works but the delta between the engine's fluids could only be so high. Even putting around, the oil would always get over 220F and would probably average around 230F with reasonable highway speeds (60-70MPH), the coolant could somewhat manage this delta and would lower a bit, maybe around 200F.
So late last fall I put on an oil cooler (34 row 59K BTU) with 185F thermostat in the filter sandwich adapter. One of the problems with this setup was I had to use the small oil filter due to the 1.75" thick sandwich adapter. I thought the oil pressure was down ~5 PSI but I think it may be closer to a 10 PSI drop with the large cooler, I foolishly wasn't recording oil pressure and temperature on my logs until recently. Well that cooler got me through winter (great temps, pressure not so much) but I never liked the small filter and stumbled across a low profile sandwich adapter that allowed me to use the large filter (RP 20-820) and I put this on around mid-January. I did not realize that this low profile adapter did not have a thermostat of any kind and was full flow to the cooler all the time. So I took that off after two weeks and removed the cooler entirely and have been running nothing for about a month now but this oil is HOT and our ambient temps are only around 80F in the evening when I drive home. The coolant gets up 200F with the oil well over 240F cruising at 90 MPH for around 15-20 miles. The coolant falls back down to 185-190F when cruising at reasonable highways speeds and the EOT falls to around 220-230F.
So without the cooler, for oil pressure I would have low 60s at cold start idle, high 60s into the 70s at cold cruising, high 50s/low 60s warm/hot cruising, and plummet to high 30s at idle (800 rpm for cam). So I adjusted my tune (HPT) to raise idle depending on oil temp and basically it is unaffected until around 176F I bump it up to 825 (800 base), 875 rpm at 212F, and 975 rpm @ 240F all scaling between and it keeps me in the high 40s oil pressure at warm-hot idle. I would prefer higher idle oil pressures but c'mon 975 rpm idle on a street engine with tiny NSR cam seems about the limit of reasonable.
So with that said, what are other 392 truck owner's experiencing? I know this engine has the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool and I am sure they are working which is heating the oil considerably more than the 5.7 but also lowering idle oil pressure. Any other engine I would be okay with that pressure but these engines, particularly the lifters and camshaft, don't like to idle with low oil pressure. What would you do in my shoes?
1. Run 5w-50 oil - I already have to keep this handy for the Roush-charged mustang so it would allow me to consolidate engine oils.
2. Remote dual filters (30-8A)
3. Run the large oil cooler I have with a remote dual filter setup, would be rather expensive in parts setup
4. Run a smaller oil cooler
5. Run a smaller oil cooler with remote filter(s)
6. Hellcat oil pump - last ditch effort, I don't really want to tear into this
7. Moroso High Cap oil pan - also don't really want to headache with this
8. Some fancy A2W setup - big $$$
9. Nothing, f'in send it!
10. Some combination of choices or other??
I see that you installed a 185 thermostat. Did you reprogram the fan cycle duty for the lower temp stat? I have the 185 thermostat and my Hemi runs 192 on the highway and 190 around town. Are you sure the radiator shutters are opening? Those temps seem high.
I installed the Mellings high volume oil pump 3 years ago and idle pressure, hot, is 45 psi and 70 at 1600 RPM, hot, on the highway. Oil temps stay below 200 unless towing, then maybe 210. I think Mellings makes the Hellcat oil pump for Mopar.
Trick i learned along time ago ,lol. I'm back,but i do have a few questions for my good buddy maddog,lolThat's smart to ziptie both ends. I just usually wrap the **** ouda it with electrical tape.
Ps. How's free speech prison? Pretty sad eh!
Welcome back buddy. Not the same around here without you my friendTrick i learned along time ago ,lol. I'm back,but i do have a few questions for my good buddy maddog,lol
Condition (Ambient 60-80F) | Oil Temperature w/out Cooler (F) | Oil Pressure w/out Cooler (PSIG) | Coolant Temperature w/out Cooler (F) | Oil Temperature w/Cooler (F) | Oil Pressure w/Cooler (PSIG) | Coolant Temperature w/Cooler (F) |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cold Idle | Ambient | 67 | Ambient | Ambient | 63 | Ambient |
Cold Cruise | <140 | 65 | <185 | <140 | 59 | <185 |
Warm Idle | 185 | 55 | 185 | 185 | 49 | 185 |
Warm Cruise | 185-215 | 62 | 185-200 | 185-200 | 53 | 185 |
Warm WOT | 185-215 | 75 | 185 | 185-200 | 67 | 185 |
Hot Idle | 240-250 | 45 | 195-205 | 220-230 | 45 | 185-190 |
Hot Cruise | 240-250 | 59 | 195-205 | 220-230 | 52 | 185-190 |
Hot WOT | 240-250 | 72 | 200+ | 235 | 60-62 | 185-190 |
Man, I love a good data table.
I'd lean towards the oil pressure drop being more related to the undersized oil filter rather than the cooler install. Most folks who run the RP filters are running the 20-500 if they have the room, or the 20-820 if not. If I remember right, that Fram XG10060 is the same size as the RP 10-48 which is the smaller size (as you noted) and generally not recommended here. No way to get the RP filter on with the cooler adapter?
The cooler looks to be doing it's job pretty well for oil and coolant temps, my vote would probably be to live with the pressure drop and gain the cooler until you can get the remote set up in for the best of cooling and filtering worlds.
What RPM are you calling Cruise?
I guess I'm not following why a remote filter adapter/mount would not be a permanent solution even once the Hellcat pump is installed?Unfortunately to use the 20-820, I would need to either use the low profile sandwich adapter that doesn't have a thermostat (that I already own) OR purchase the improved racing low profile sandwich adapter that does have the thermostat. Brandon-w claims it fits with the large filter, and would be 0.35" thinner (1.75 vs 1.40) but would be around $275 for a temporary solution until I could get the hellcat pump installed. I do know when I tried the Fram XG2 when the 20-820s were on backorder last summer, there was definitely a couple pound pressure drop, so I think you have some truth to that. I definitely cannot fit the 20-500, I have some that my mustang uses and it is nowhere near do-able, unfortunately.
It's a PITA to set the proper oil level with the oil cooler draining back into the pan, evidenced by me possibly cavitating the pump, but I may need to leave it as we're not anywhere near the high ambient temps yet, I've still got 20+ degrees of ambient I need to accommodate so I may need to run the improved racing adapter, unhook the cooler to below the filter mount, re-mark the proper oil level, and run it until I can set it up correctly.
My cruise RPM for these tables is in the 2,000-2,500 RPM range, which affects the pressure +/- 2 PSI from the table.
I know many would accuse me overthinking, myself included, but it is exhausting - I just can't turn it off though.
I guess I'm not following why a remote filter adapter/mount would not be a permanent solution even once the Hellcat pump is installed?
Single remote filter with thermostat still gets my vote, halves the fittings and simplifies plumbing. Any local hose/offroad shops that can do AN lines?The remote filter mount would be permanent but a much more involved job due to the crazy amount of fittings required to plumb that up, plus my bench vise & bench is deep in storage. The easier temporary solution to utilize a larger filter involved using the thinner Improved Racing sandwich plate so that I could run the larger RP 20-820, as a temporary solution. Hell, maybe I just bite the bullet and go with a single remote setup with the integrated thermostat and pre-pay for a couple of AN lines, which would also be quick and easy.
Single remote filter with thermostat still gets my vote, halves the fittings and simplifies plumbing. Any local hose/offroad shops that can do AN lines?
I run the -10AN and I think @crazykid1994 runs -10 also.Probably but they'd probably charge a similar fee to Improved Racing, which is $25/line. I currently have -8AN hose, the take off and remote housing can handle -10AN, I am thinking about upsizing as well.
Why not run the low profile sandwich with an in line thermostat like what I did for my transmission. Piece of cake. And yea. Any bigger than -10 an I think is larger than the oil ports in the block.