4x4 problem Ram 2013+ 8-speed 44-44 transfer case

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black14sport

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I haven't done a 180. The only evidence anyone in this thread has shown it dodsn't lock is two people at idle without the tires spinning. I've shown two at idle with them spinning. That's not thick.. that's facts? We already came to the conclusion ( not sure who said it, but i accepted that as acceptable ), as to WHY some might work, and some might not. I left it alone, then some idiot asked where I was, so.. here I am. Did you not see that part of the thread? you're asking about me reading... but it appears you're not....?!?!?

As for you getting stuck, that's extremely disappointing, and i'm sorry that happened. However, you're one of the very, very few that happens to. As i said before, user error, bad tires, exceptional conditions? Take your pick. Nothing you, or anyone can change the fact that the case is working as designed. 4LOCK merely means the axle locks when engaged. This definition can be modified based on who's giving you the definition. I'll spell this out for you guys since you're confused.

4LOCK means it locks the REAR, and FRONT axles , all the wheels spin.. that's EXACTLY what happens when it's engaged. It's a marketing gimmick... 4 lock is 4hi, hell 4lock can be 4 auto, essentially, by definition, ALL 4x4 systems lock in that regard. What the hell is so confusing about that? Because you're using a generalized term of what 4lock means? All that says is you spend WAY to much time reading forums, and less time learning about how they work.
Kudos to you. You are a premier driver and glorified engineer and we are all high school punks driving our dad's $60k trucks. Congratulations on your success.

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Hemi395

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I guess one advantage of the 44-44 is you can't destroy the front end by running it in 4lock on dry pavement. But if you're dumb enough to do that anyway you shouldn't be driving a 4wd.

Nevermind that's not an advantage. That's just making 4wd idiot proof.
 

yillbs

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There is no published information, I've said that repeatedly. What I was talking about was the conversation I had over the phone with a man named Don Hughes who was the engineer I had spoken to on 8/14/2014. I can show emails back and forth between me and 3 high ups in Ram talking about this whole thing, and the information was posted here around that time, so if you want that information you can contact ram and speak to him, or just speak to ram customer care, they said the same thing.
You didn't answer my question. Above t he old system that 4 auto, above the GM system with 4 auto, provide one advantage over those systems, the advantages of a system adding 4 auto are numerous, the advantages of this particular transfer case over those transfer cases don't exist.
Here is the email that I got from a case manager that halfway explains it.f134ad66b57987ad12c83cd7ffeec3a8.png

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Your email shows us what we already knew... torque is pushed to the front wheels of the ram based on need. Which is why some people can get spinning front tires at a stop and some can't. Putting it in 4lock on a slippery surface, letting it idle, will spin front, and back. What you've shown us is nothing short of Ram telling us how amazingly advanced the system is ( thanks ram ).

As far as what's better, the entire system is better, in every way. From the way it engages, the time in which it engages, how utterly useful it is. This is a light duty truck, with a light duty transfer case bro, what are you wanting exactly. This truck will out perform thousands of trucks off road, literally thousands. Going into the engineering marvels that were pulled off here is silly, we already know what they are.

Bottom line is, if you're getting stuck, THEN turning on 4wd, you need to learn to wheel. If you leave traction control enabled, turn on 4lock, and drive, your front,a nd rear axles will lock at the same speed, just as designed. That's ALL that matters here, the ins and outs of exactly how they do that are moot. What you're expecting, and from what i gather, many of you expect, is when you put it into 4lock, you expect to be able to WOT the thing, and all 4 wheels start spinning to pull you and push you through whatever you've managed to put yourself in.

That... DOES Happen. If you're sitting in 18 inches of snow, just spinning tires, then you NEED TO GET A DIFFERENT TRUCK. It'll overheat with a chain drive too. You can tell me about how your 1999 bronco, or whatever car you had before doesn't, that's all well and dandy. Times cahnge, things change, THIS has changed. I knew -exactly- how my truck would perform offroad. I looked for the bw44-44, i wanted the 4auto. It's a superior tcase over the lower trimmed bw44-45. It's just the way it is. It's superior due to 4auto, just because you don't need it, don't like it, or think it's stupid, doesn't mean it's changing. It has more functionality, costs more to make, and does more. With that said, you haven't the slightest idea what the torque management system on those clutches are, you will google, and you will come up empty handed, but you have no idea. i suggest you accept that what you have is what you have, and learn to use it to your advantage.

On a serious, no douche note. Watch some youtube videos of higher trim trucks off road, the tcase DOES perform well, it just does man. I have to use the same opinions on myself. Just because I THINK it does good, doesn't change the fact it won't for some others. But looking through some of the replies ( no offense to you ), you have people talking about spinning tires and etc etc etc, the system is deisgned to be used with traction control on, just bceause it's more FUN, and gives you more control with it off, doesn't mean that's how it's designed. You won't get wheel spin with fresh powder in 4wd, EVEN rear wheel spin.

I'll leave it on this note, because that's just all facts, I'm sorry we don't see eye to eye, I get your passionate, and you are pissed off. Just because I feel a certain way, doesn't negate your anger, in any way shape or form. I really am sorry you have something you don't like, that's a **** load of money to spend, research or not, you spent it, and now you're stuck with it. From one human to another human, that's just wrong, even if nothing Is wrong :love51:
 

yillbs

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Kudos to you. You are a premier driver and glorified engineer and we are all high school punks driving our dad's $60k trucks. Congratulations on your success.

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What? I'm not a premier driver.. I drive it like it should be driven. 4lock means it locks the axles to the same speed, this Tcase does exactly that... Are you on a mission to be angry, or do you legitimately not understand what's being said?
 

loveracing1988

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Your email shows us what we already knew... torque is pushed to the front wheels of the ram based on need. Which is why some people can get spinning front tires at a stop and some can't. Putting it in 4lock on a slippery surface, letting it idle, will spin front, and back. What you've shown us is nothing short of Ram telling us how amazingly advanced the system is ( thanks ram ).

As far as what's better, the entire system is better, in every way. From the way it engages, the time in which it engages, how utterly useful it is. This is a light duty truck, with a light duty transfer case bro, what are you wanting exactly. This truck will out perform thousands of trucks off road, literally thousands. Going into the engineering marvels that were pulled off here is silly, we already know what they are.

Bottom line is, if you're getting stuck, THEN turning on 4wd, you need to learn to wheel. If you leave traction control enabled, turn on 4lock, and drive, your front,a nd rear axles will lock at the same speed, just as designed. That's ALL that matters here, the ins and outs of exactly how they do that are moot. What you're expecting, and from what i gather, many of you expect, is when you put it into 4lock, you expect to be able to WOT the thing, and all 4 wheels start spinning to pull you and push you through whatever you've managed to put yourself in.

That... DOES Happen. If you're sitting in 18 inches of snow, just spinning tires, then you NEED TO GET A DIFFERENT TRUCK. It'll overheat with a chain drive too. You can tell me about how your 1999 bronco, or whatever car you had before doesn't, that's all well and dandy. Times cahnge, things change, THIS has changed. I knew -exactly- how my truck would perform offroad. I looked for the bw44-44, i wanted the 4auto. It's a superior tcase over the lower trimmed bw44-45. It's just the way it is. It's superior due to 4auto, just because you don't need it, don't like it, or think it's stupid, doesn't mean it's changing. It has more functionality, costs more to make, and does more. With that said, you haven't the slightest idea what the torque management system on those clutches are, you will google, and you will come up empty handed, but you have no idea. i suggest you accept that what you have is what you have, and learn to use it to your advantage.

On a serious, no douche note. Watch some youtube videos of higher trim trucks off road, the tcase DOES perform well, it just does man. I have to use the same opinions on myself. Just because I THINK it does good, doesn't change the fact it won't for some others. But looking through some of the replies ( no offense to you ), you have people talking about spinning tires and etc etc etc, the system is deisgned to be used with traction control on, just bceause it's more FUN, and gives you more control with it off, doesn't mean that's how it's designed. You won't get wheel spin with fresh powder in 4wd, EVEN rear wheel spin.

I'll leave it on this note, because that's just all facts, I'm sorry we don't see eye to eye, I get your passionate, and you are pissed off. Just because I feel a certain way, doesn't negate your anger, in any way shape or form. I really am sorry you have something you don't like, that's a **** load of money to spend, research or not, you spent it, and now you're stuck with it. From one human to another human, that's just wrong, even if nothing Is wrong :love51:
Ok... So in 4 lock off road you would rather have a computer dictate when torque goes to the front axle than just being split? What advantage does that have? I've had my two trucks in identical situations, my 1500 overheated the transfer case because the clutch slipped, my 2500 had no issues whatsoever in the same spot with actually a little more snow with the horrible Firestone tires vs the silent armors that came on my outdoorsman that were amazing in the snow. Anything with a clutch can slip, you bring up your Durango, my wife has a grand cherokee. In normal everyday driving they are identical, but in that jeep when it goes into 4 low the front and rear are mechanically locked, the clutch gets bypassed. If ram would have used that I would be fine, because it at least allows you to keep moving and no have any slippage.
I can see shopping for 4 auto, it was a very useful feature, but they never had any issues with the NV transfer cases with 4 auto, it functioned both ways and never had any issues.

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7777xm

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4 lock maximizes torque, gets split front to back, 50/50. 4 auto varies.

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Gump

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It's incredibly entertaining how there's 3 threads I know of bickering about the 44-44. I don't even know who's on what side anymore. I do know I used 4 lock yesterday on a snow covered iced hill from a dead stop, and it left bare ice spots under all four tires with no hesitation. Then again one of the best winter cars I owned was an 05 Subaru STI with Blizzaks (and that's including 9 other 4wd trucks I've had). That thing had the "dreaded" variable center diff that I would put up against any other 4x4 in up to 18" of snow.

I think the perception of having clutches in the t-case instead of a mechanical lock is the worst thing here, but I also don't think Ram thought people would be hardcore wheeling a Big Horn or Laramie.
 

loveracing1988

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The updated manual.

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The explanation straight from engineering is a lot more precise than they will tell the general public. Stuff gets misprinted all the time in manuals and sometimes gets corrected and sometimes doesn't.

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Ricks Ram

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The 44-44 isn't a better transfer case than the 44-45. It's a different transfer case and everyone has the right to chose the one they prefer. I personally have no problem ingaging my 44-45 when I need it. I have no need for 4x4 Auto. I also personally don't care to have the 44-44. I prefer a transfer case that locks in 4x4 when I engage it and has less moving parts and is obviously more efficient when it's in 4x4 lock. The Outdoorsman and Rebel both have the Lower Trim level transfer cases as you call them and they have them for a reason. They are better in more offroad situations. It just so happens that the Express and Tradesman have the same transfer case. I do agree with the point that the 4x4 auto is a nice feature for some but maybe not for others like myself. I think Ram's best bet would be to allow customers to make there own choice which transfer case they would prefer and order it on there trucks.
 

loveracing1988

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It's incredibly entertaining how there's 3 threads I know of bickering about the 44-44. I don't even know who's on what side anymore. I do know I used 4 lock yesterday on a snow covered iced hill from a dead stop, and it left bare ice spots under all four tires with no hesitation. Then again one of the best winter cars I owned was an 05 Subaru STI with Blizzaks (and that's including 9 other 4wd trucks I've had). That thing had the "dreaded" variable center diff that I would put up against any other 4x4 in up to 18" of snow.

I think the perception of having clutches in the t-case instead of a mechanical lock is the worst thing here, but I also don't think Ram thought people would be hardcore wheeling a Big Horn or Laramie.
It's not really a perception as experience for me. I've never seen a torn down subaru center diff before, but I test Audi diffs at work and they are helical gears transferring the torque just like in the rear axle in the HD's, there are no clutches involved so nothing to really "slip" or wear out.

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loveracing1988

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I know when I drive in 4 lock, I can definitely feel the difference from 4 auto.

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My truck there was no difference. In those videos there was no difference. Either way on a dry parking lot there isn't any binding in any mode.

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7777xm

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The explanation straight from engineering is a lot more precise than they will tell the general public. Stuff gets misprinted all the time in manuals and sometimes gets corrected and sometimes doesn't.

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The engineer explained the general functionally. He didn't go into detail about the different modes, such as 4 auto vs 4 lock.

I know there is a definite difference between the two modes as I use them often. If both were the same, they would also perform the same.

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yillbs

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The engineer explained the general functionally. He didn't go into detail about the different modes, such as 4 auto vs 4 lock.

I know there is a definite difference between the two modes as I use them often. If both were the same, they would also perform the same.

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I think you misunderstand. These warriors are saying they are al the same because it requires wheel spin before ANY of the modes kick in. That's all they focus on, because it 's the only thing TO focus on, outside of that one drawback ( which isn't even real ), the tcase is sound. They know this, so they focus on the most silly portion of it possible. I.E, the " they all function the same " , which is why you keep hearing that.
 

cak446

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I think you misunderstand. These warriors are saying they are al the same because it requires wheel spin before ANY of the modes kick in. That's all they focus on, because it 's the only thing TO focus on, outside of that one drawback ( which isn't even real ), the tcase is sound. They know this, so they focus on the most silly portion of it possible. I.E, the " they all function the same " , which is why you keep hearing that.

Ok, this post makes it obvious you don't understand the issue we have with this transfercase. You dismiss the fact that the t-case needs to see slip before engaging the front axle as a drawback which isn't even real. Nothing can be further from the truth for anyone who uses their trucks in low traction situations. The BW 44-44 t-case is fine for bombing though mud, snow and any other situation, where momentum and a bit of wheelspin is desired.

It's when you try and take off from a rest in low traction situations, the shortcomings of this t-case are unacceptable. In these situations, a bit of finesse, gentle throttle inputs, with no wheelspin is required. This is due to the fact the static coefficient of friction of our tires, is higher than the sliding coefficient of friction.

During the winter, the delayed engagement of the front axle is something that annoys me every time I drive my truck. I'll list a few examples.

Deep Snow: When you try and take off from rest in deep snow, you don't want your wheels to spin, as it will just dig you down further. With our t-case, the back tires will spin first, dig down slightly, then the front end will abruptly engage, which will often result in the front tires spinning as well, which just digs a person in deeper. I have yet to be stuck in the deep snow, but it's only a matter of time, before I do, or break something in the front end due to the harsh engagement.

Icy unlevel surfaces: This is another situation where no wheelspin is desired. As part of my job, I travel to remote oil well drilling locations. A person often meets semis hauling wide loads on these bush roads. When meeting these trucks, I'm required to pull over to the side of the road and stop, in order to give as much room as possible. Once the load has passed, Ill try to pull back onto the road, but having the rear tires slip, causes the whole back end of the truck to slide towards the ditch, and has the potential to suck the whole truck into the ditch. It has already happened to me once, but luckily it was early in the winter, and I was able to drive out of the ditch after taking a couple runs at it.

Towing a trailer, and especially backing it up: One of my favorite wintertime pastimes is snowmobiling. This often requires pulling a trailer down unplowed roads, and parking in areas with significant snow cover. The two drawbacks I listed above, become even more serious when a trailer is involved. Backing up is especially tricky. Once again since the rear wheels need to slip, before the front axle kicks in, this slipping can cause the back end of the truck to slide sideways, which could lead to jack knifing the trailer while backing up.

The above are just three situations, that I routinely encounter during the winter, I can list many more, but I think I have demonstrated my point.

I'm well aware that some trucks require less slippage before engaging the front end, but even if you have a "tight" truck now, it will get worse as the truck ages. I know mine sure has.

If Dodge would just simply program the clutches in the t-case to actually lock up in 4wd lock, none of the above situations would be an issue. If they didn't mislead us by lying about the 4wd Lock and 4wd Low settings, I would have never even considered buying a Ram with the BW 44-44 t-case. This blatant misrepresentation of the 4wd system is why so many of us are pissed off at Ram, and our trucks.
 

Gump

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Allow me to throw out that a truck with a locker will throw the rear end towards a ditch when accelerating from a dead stop on an icy road, therefore a locker must be a factory mechanical defect. Correct? But we all salivate over our trucks having a locker or even a limited slip diff. What if Ram knows that proper application of torque keeps stupid people on the road instead of in the ditch so they made a deal with Borg Warner for this transfer case that works with clutches (like every auto transmission ever) to apply power to the front differential when needed in rough conditions because most people don't know when to actually use 4wd. So Ram is at fault for putting an intelligent all wheel drive (FOUR WHEEL DRIVE) system in a truck that some people think takes the place of a Jeep or heavy duty truck (POWER WAGON) when in reality it's only doing what a regular half ton will do: get by. Half ton trucks are not meant to be beat on. They never have been. Sure, we can pull 10,000 lbs now, but not through the beaches of Maryland or the rock of Moab. You guys have stories of crappy 98 GMCs doing that work, but my 88 W100 out-wheeled a Rubicon Jeep when I was told it wasn't possible. So why don't you naysayers sell your 44-44 equipped Rams, buy Ford Escapes(looking at you roadshow), and leave us Ram fans alone. I hear gmtruckclub.com LOVES new members.
 

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