Casting Sand: 6.4 Hemi HD Coolant Filter

[mrack]

So. I’m not the only one with crap in my coolant after flushing. I’m so happy to hear. As the gentleman before said. These so called experts that have been in the field for so long don’t know what we are talking about. Ok. How about this. The root cause is casting sand releasing from the block. My truck started about 130-140 k I’ve put 4 heater cores in it. A Radiator and water pump. ROOT cause need some way to seal the inside of block with some sort of liquid. Something similar to the way AMSOIL and Royal Purple does to the inside of the oil passages. It forms a coating of sorts and allows less friction???????? Any ideas ?? External filter won’t work because of flow and pressures. Not enough. ……..Thinking outside the box here. So ….. how about a another tank similar to the overflow tank that can have some screen in it that can be taken out and cleaned then replaces. It would almost have to be on return hose out of engine to radiator ????????! Maybe ??? Anyone else ??? NEED HELP. I have a 3/4 Ton paperweight that I can’t use in winter

This thread is literally proof that you can use a coolant filter, what is making you think you can’t.

 

[Mister Luck]

Most if not all casting sand rarities would be in the engine block skirts and not water passages if you let jiffy job or loopy lube or anyone unsupervised refill your coolant reservoir with anything but distilled water or coolant there is the source of contamination.
I’m pretty sure the bottom of a radiator would become a sediment catch can for the majority if not already removed by manufacturing process.

Although one of Chrysler’s corporate partners was guilty of this in both iron and aluminum foundries the process has become refined in both the raw materials and digital innovations.

Sand Casting the Engine Block

I thought some people might get a kick out of seeing how the sand casting process that we used to make our blocks and crankcases works. It combines a bunch of different manufacturing techniques fr…

motivengines.wordpress.com

 

[Dren2500]

MRACK. Thank you for asking. The filter setup they are talking about is for the Cummings motor. Total different animal. Pressure and flow rates are not even close. Water pumps are totally different. Water pumps shafts on Hemi 6.4 HD. are about the size of a #2 pencil I’ve already had one shear the shaft due to sediment in system. I’m hoping that somebody in this forum would prove me wrong. Also the water pumps have a phenolic vane that very flexible. Until it gets buildup in it and then the shaft shears Now. I agree the new processes that are suppose to be In place andUsed now are better…… but the fact remains it is still done in Mexico and who really knows how quality control works down there. If it is as they say it is then why are all of the people on this forum having the same issue with what appears to be casting sand in the system. Now. I have taken some of the crap I removed from the system and sent it off to a lab I have used in past for oil analysis and am hoping to get it back within 2-3 weeks. I just did it last Wednesday. I don’t know what else to think. I REALLY DO LOVE MY TRUCK It has worked hard for me and now I really want it to last. Sidebar……..MY LAST TRUCK WAS A 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 hemi. When I sold it, it had 396K miles on it. All original motor trans , transfer case and rear end. All #s matched. I take care of my stuff. It’s to expensive not to nowadays

 

[jake Brekkestran]

Come back to reply on my post. Radiator plugged tight from casting block sand. Engine overheated, Replaced radiator, water pump port plugged. Put prestone in it instead of the ram anti-freeze. Still plugging my inline filter because it is to small of a filter. Plugs right away. But when clean it heats like crazy, like when I bought it. Chrysler has a problem with these trucks and should fix the problem. Water pump was plugged on the top of the pump. The hose nipple that is on the top was plugged. Seemed like an air eliminator for the water pump. Couldn't stuff a wire thru it. Looked at the diameter of the hole and it is much smaller than the new water pump I put on. Dealership didn't even catch the plugged nipple for some reason. Gonna look to see if I can put a larger filter on it to keep the flow going thru it and catch some of the sand. Three heater cores, three thermostats, water pump. Can't believe they haven't put out a recall on this problem. It should of been new motors no questions asked. Over time this sand keeps working its way out of the block.

 

[nlambert182]

Changing over to the wrong coolant isn't going to solve your problem. Good luck with it.

 

[R.D.J.]

Add me to the list of poor heat.

Just finished flushing my heater core with air/water. I had intentions of trying to inspect what came out, but it didn't work out, and fell on the floor. Dang.

After flushing, my heat is as good as it was on day 1, so I don't think it was clogged that badly. Just poor heat on drivers side of the truck.

I did not have any other symptoms. It wasn't running hot at all. This is the first cooling system related repair my truck has had done since it was brand new. Its got 75,000kms on it.

 

[ScubaSteve178]

Has anyone ever figured this problem out? I have an awfully hard time believing the issue is casting sand, as it would stand to reason that would be a problem that presents itself very early on, not after roughly a hundred thousand miles. The debris that regularly shows up in pictures of people who have captured it or cut open old radiators/heater cores tends to look more like the sludge that forms from mixing incompatible coolants to me. Especially if folks have replaced most of their major components (heater core, radiator, and oil cooler- EGR cooler?) just to have them pack up again shortly after. And I believe this is the same issue that the Cummins trucks, and the 3.6 motors are experiencing. How can 3 different engines from three different foundries all be having issues with casting sand? I've even read a few forum posts regarding Alfa Romeo's having the same issues.

I'm currently experiencing no heat- have since last winter, but just neglected it. I've now got a failed thermostat and would like to one and done this thing without worrying about having the same problems next winter.

 

[Sherman Bird]

There are a number of Jeep owners who have plumbed these filters in-line to the heater supposedly. Seems like my continually clogged heater core is a pretty huge heating issue right now. If I could find a bowl type strainer that are rated for high heat that would be ideal.

Possible silicate that looks like sand? Cavitation issues come to mind. IF it were MY truck, I'd completely flush the cooling system and install OLD style Toyota Red (it has no silicates) in the cooling system, at least temporarily. I'd make damned sure I had a GOOD pressure cap on the system to alleviate cavitation. I'd contemplate installing a restrictor in the heater feed hose, again, at least temporarily.

Not that it really matters, I've been seeing silicate deposits on spark plugs, O2 sensors, and in ruined catalytic converters over the past 5-7 years. Just sharing thoughts.

 

[nlambert182]

Has anyone ever figured this problem out? I have an awfully hard time believing the issue is casting sand, as it would stand to reason that would be a problem that presents itself very early on, not after roughly a hundred thousand miles. The debris that regularly shows up in pictures of people who have captured it or cut open old radiators/heater cores tends to look more like the sludge that forms from mixing incompatible coolants to me. Especially if folks have replaced most of their major components (heater core, radiator, and oil cooler- EGR cooler?) just to have them pack up again shortly after. And I believe this is the same issue that the Cummins trucks, and the 3.6 motors are experiencing. How can 3 different engines from three different foundries all be having issues with casting sand? I've even read a few forum posts regarding Alfa Romeo's having the same issues.

I'm currently experiencing no heat- have since last winter, but just neglected it. I've now got a failed thermostat and would like to one and done this thing without worrying about having the same problems next winter.

Some present early, some do not. My truck made it to 120k before it started clogging.

I've posted earlier in either this thread or a similar one all of the different manufacturers that have had issues with this, to include the types of coolant that they recommend. Silicates "could" potentially be an issue but I'm not sold on it yet because it's happened on vehicles that use a different coolant. It isn't limited to the coolant in the Hemi, Pentastar, and Cummins.

The coolants aren't all the same, so it would reason that if different manufacturers are having similar issues and using different coolants that you'd need to find a common denominator. The only common denominator seems to be that either the blocks, or components on the block that touch the cooling system are sand cast. Heads, blocks, water pump housings, etc...

 

[Matt Luken]

Ive been having the same issues for the last 3 winters. I've flushed the heater core with air and water now 4 times. Heat comes back. What I'm seeing is sand. My mechanic agrees. His experience is its casting sand and he's seen it in several mopar brands. Now I'm getting ready to do it a fifth time. Its heating better but It cools off under 20F. I haven't messed with the thermostat yet. I do get sudden temp. drops at times but no overheating. I did find an inline heater core filter on Ebay. I did order it and will install when we flush. Its see through so I should be able to track this.
With this cost I still have less than 400 in it versus a heater core swap. And I'm glad I haven't done that. The filter for diesels wont work its a bypass style filter and only filters about 10% at a time. There is also a company that makes radiator hose filters too. Google search. I did talk to the vendor about the inline filter. They've sold thousands. So wish me luck and will update.

 

[nlambert182]

The problem is more that the sand trapped in the core mostly stays in the core. You’ll stir it up with a flush and may get some of it out but a lot of it will settle back into the core.

Good luck!

 

[Sherman Bird]

The problem is more that the sand trapped in the core mostly stays in the core. You’ll stir it up with a flush and may get some of it out but a lot of it will settle back into the core.

Good luck!

THE Craziest thing I EVER witnessed was when I last worked at a Chevy dealer in the 90's. A woman bought a newly designed Chevrolet Lumina Sedan. She was on her 5th heater core within the first 4000 miles of owning it.

She, rightfully so, was very disappointed in the car, and was on the verge of using the "Lemon Law" for relief.

GM had her bring the car to our dealer and sent a team from "STG" (Service Technology Group). These were mobile engineers who were THE best of the best of the best. (Consummate nerds)!

A team of 4 of them flew here to Houston, and converged on the car akin to a person being prodded by scientific brainiacs!
I watched them from across the aisle and curiously came over and asked questions. They were able to determine that electrolosis was the culprit, not by the coolant, but by the air going across the heater core being ionized by the blower motor! The company (vendor) was Siemens. The fix that day was to go to the home improvement store, buy a small amount of metal window screen material, cut it to the face profile of the new heater core, attach a wire to it ang ground the other end of the wire, and put the car back on the road again, and write a report and get it to Siemens' engineering department!

 

[Matt Luken]

Ive been having the same issues for the last 3 winters. I've flushed the heater core with air and water now 4 times. Heat comes back. What I'm seeing is sand. My mechanic agrees. His experience is its casting sand and he's seen it in several mopar brands. Now I'm getting ready to do it a fifth time. Its heating better but It cools off under 20F. I haven't messed with the thermostat yet. I do get sudden temp. drops at times but no overheating. I did find an inline heater core filter on Ebay. I did order it and will install when we flush. Its see through so I should be able to track this.
With this cost I still have less than 400 in it versus a heater core swap. And I'm glad I haven't done that. The filter for diesels wont work its a bypass style filter and only filters about 10% at a time. There is also a company that makes radiator hose filters too. Google search. I did talk to the vendor about the inline filter. They've sold thousands. So wish me luck and will update.

update- I backflushed the heater core (5th time) installed the filter that I bought on Ebay and within a week the filter was half full of SAND, yes not sludge or electrolosis or whatever. Mechanic has a Jeep with the same problem. Showed him where on EBay to get the filter and he plans on stocking this in his shop. Good news is I have heat. Plan on doing a complete flush and coolant replacement.
Of all the threads and Utube videos Ive come across it seemed that the most plausible explanation was the least accounted for. Which was sand. And the use of a filter designed for the heater core. Not a Jerry rigged Diesel one. Glad I didn't replace my heater core as that was the top recommendation or use some kind of Diesel filter that if you read up on was only a bypass type filter.

 

[Yardbird]

update- I backflushed the heater core (5th time) installed the filter that I bought on Ebay and within a week the filter was half full of SAND, yes not sludge or electrolosis or whatever. Mechanic has a Jeep with the same problem. Showed him where on EBay to get the filter and he plans on stocking this in his shop. Good news is I have heat. Plan on doing a complete flush and coolant replacement.
Of all the threads and Utube videos Ive come across it seemed that the most plausible explanation was the least accounted for. Which was sand. And the use of a filter designed for the heater core. Not a Jerry rigged Diesel one. Glad I didn't replace my heater core as that was the top recommendation or use some kind of Diesel filter that if you read up on was only a bypass type filter.

Will you post a link to the filter you bought? I think I need one on my truck.

My heat had been getting worse. I do mostly short drives. I went on a 2 hour each way, interstate drive, a couple of weeks ago. There are lots of hills where I went. After dropping to 5th and 6th a few times for fairly long, higher rpm pulls, the heat started putting out a good bit more.

I'm thinking the heavier stream of water broke some of the settled crud loose.

I'm hoping a flush and a filter will keep the problem away for a few more years.

 

[GeneM]

Will you post a link to the filter you bought? I think I need one on my truck.

My heat had been getting worse. I do mostly short drives. I went on a 2 hour each way, interstate drive, a couple of weeks ago. There are lots of hills where I went. After dropping to 5th and 6th a few times for fairly long, higher rpm pulls, the heat started putting out a good bit more.

I'm thinking the heavier stream of water broke some of the settled crud loose.

I'm hoping a flush and a filter will keep the problem away for a few more years.

You may want to PM Matt so he gets a message in his email or something and then please post the response to help out the community here!!

 

[Sherman Bird]

update- I backflushed the heater core (5th time) installed the filter that I bought on Ebay and within a week the filter was half full of SAND, yes not sludge or electrolosis or whatever. Mechanic has a Jeep with the same problem. Showed him where on EBay to get the filter and he plans on stocking this in his shop. Good news is I have heat. Plan on doing a complete flush and coolant replacement.
Of all the threads and Utube videos Ive come across it seemed that the most plausible explanation was the least accounted for. Which was sand. And the use of a filter designed for the heater core. Not a Jerry rigged Diesel one. Glad I didn't replace my heater core as that was the top recommendation or use some kind of Diesel filter that if you read up on was only a bypass type filter.

Was it "sand-colored" tan? Or was it gray and black particulate?

 

[dieselscout80]

Seems to me that if it was casting sand in the cooling system there would be lots of water pump issues.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Seems to me that if it was casting sand in the cooling system there would be lots of water pump issues.

It's not sand, likely. It's more likely to be silicon or debris from the casting of the engine due to several factors.

 

[Sherman Bird]

It's not sand, likely. It's more likely to be silicon or debris from the casting of the engine due to several factors.

The Grand Canyon. How deep is it? 6,000 feet. That's 800 feet more than a mile. And water did that! Dynamics of water hydraulics are amazing. Natural cavitation is very interesting. And it all has to do with tiny air bubbles in moving water's cavitation! Extremely powerful! Water vapor saturation is an interesting phenomena.

 

[Wild one]

Post #299 has good pic's of the residue in the block.

Noob needs help 6.4L possible lifter and cam

Damn it, I just took my son in laws friend out to my shop to look at that scratch and I realized I’m going to have to take the exhaust manifold off, either way to have it decked or to do it myself it’s going to have to come off. I was really trying to avoid that. Good time to surface them...

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