Do you guys think all Gen 3 5.7L Hemi engines are doomed for lifter/cam failure?

[Kamikazi82xx]

2011 ram 5.7 hemi 170,000 miles- currently replacing cam, lifters and deleting the pos MDS. Adding a hot cam, new lifters, Melling 10452HV oil pump that produces 20 percent more volume flow than oem and a tune. Hopefully this will take care of this stupid problem

 

[Wild one]

2011 ram 5.7 hemi 170,000 miles- currently replacing cam, lifters and deleting the pos MDS. Adding a hot cam, new lifters, Melling 10452HV oil pump that produces 20 percent more volume flow than oem and a tune. Hopefully this will take care of this stupid problem

Bump your idle up to at least 750 rpm,the cam lobes are oiled strictly by crank splash,they don't get any pressurized oil fed to them. Swap in you're original or the low pressure bypass spring if you're hung up on a high volume pump

 

[Biggfoot44]

. However, "prematurely" is a subjective term, to some it means 100K miles to others 200K and some ??? miles.

That's easy !

Premature to the rest of the engine .

If de facto engine death occured more or less equally from spun bearings , blown head gaskets , etc , as for lifter failures , it wouldn't be a limiting factor .

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

Ive been in a mopar, (dodge or ram) since 1987. Never done a cam or lifters yet, due to failure, could happen tomorrow but not so far.

Doesn't mean I haven't replaced one, for performance upgrades, but not because of failure.

I've destroyed more GM engines and Ford engines than mopar engines.

I'd drive it and not worry.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Ive been in a mopar, (dodge or ram) since 1987. Never done a cam or lifters yet, due to failure, could happen tomorrow but not so far.

Doesn't mean I haven't replaced one, for performance upgrades, but not because of failure.

I've destroyed more GM engines and Ford engines than mopar engines.

I'd drive it and not worry.

People act like these motors are paper mache. It's slightly better than 1hp per cubic inch in a *naturally aspirated* motor with a fat torque curve that routinely runs for 150k+ miles without being opened for anything and can knock around 20-ish mpg on the highway in a half ton truck. Oh no, what a **** design, what a horrible motor we've been saddled with...

Lay people gold eggs, they'll whine they are hard to stack.

 

[EdGs]

My '15 Hemi made it to 200k on oil changes according to oci since 28,684 miles, before a lifter ate the cam.

Cost a bunch to fix, but would've cost much more to get another similar truck with no guarantees as to condition.

Kept the MDS. Used mostly OE parts, and still get 20+mpg highway. Pretty damn good for a 395hp V8.

Gonna be doing different oci's now even though it's not a guarantee. Some have done 5K or less oci's and STILL had a lifter/cam failure. Any part can fail at any time. Parts are made by humans, and I believe that poor maufacturing on some parts bears alot of the blame, along with some design shortcomings.

Do your maintenance the best you can. Take care of her. Drive her. Enjoy her. Fix her if she breaks.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Metallurgists working for the Mother ship (GM, Ford, Chrysler) are specifically tasked to engineer parts to a planned failure. I was told that by a retired GM metallurgist/engineer in the mid 1980's.
He related that an axle, for instance was put onto a fixture and run for a specified numbers of rotations (in the millions); that the goal was to get the part(s) just past warranty.

I can only wonder if there are any parts in existence, in particular, roller lifters and cams, that would endure for a longer time than they currently do.

Also, given the relative narrow scope of this forum and it's participants, I wonder if the stories and experiences related TO cam/lifter failure skew real world numbers.

Besides, isn't that "new car smell" wonderful!?

 

[EdGs]

Metallurgists working for the Mother ship (GM, Ford, Chrysler) are specifically tasked to engineer parts to a planned failure. I was told that by a retired GM metallurgist/engineer in the mid 1980's.
He related that an axle, for instance was put onto a fixture and run for a specified numbers of rotations (in the millions); that the goal was to get the part(s) just past warranty.

I can only wonder if there are any parts in existence, in particular, roller lifters and cams, that would endure for a longer time than they currently do.

Also, given the relative narrow scope of this forum and it's participants, I wonder if the stories and experiences related TO cam/lifter failure skew real world numbers.

Besides, isn't that "new car smell" wonderful!?

Engineered to fail. Definately a thing, IMO.

When my lifter failed, the needles didn't wear, the pin they roll on did. If the needles stopped rolling first, I don't know.

Note: this is a lifter from a 2015 that was built in late 2014. It is an updated lifter, and is original to the truck, AFAIK. The 'update' to the lifters must've been done prior to this, and not in 2016. I would love the see a pic of a 2016, 2017, or 2018 known original failed lifter to see if there's a difference compared to this one.

That cam lobe (#5 intake) got destroyed.


However, I did have BOTH #8 lobes just worn through the heat treat at the tips of the lobes. The lifter rollers looked and seemed normal.

You can see the pitting where the wear is, makes me wonder if the casting and heat-treat processes weren't quite right. I'm familiar with heat-treating of steels, but not cast iron. Internal bubbles might be normal? I know the skin of the heat-treat is not very thick either.

A billet steel MDS cam would be much more durable, IMO.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Metallurgists working for the Mother ship (GM, Ford, Chrysler) are specifically tasked to engineer parts to a planned failure. I was told that by a retired GM metallurgist/engineer in the mid 1980's.
He related that an axle, for instance was put onto a fixture and run for a specified numbers of rotations (in the millions); that the goal was to get the part(s) just past warranty.

Everything is built with a lifespan in mind, that's common sense that you have to balance durability/longevity and cost concerns with the expected useful life of whatever you're building. You want longer life out of parts, detune the hemi to 200hp and see how long everything lasts. They'll sell dozens of them.

I can count on zero fingers how many axles I've seen die "just past the warranty", so that's nonsense.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Those cam lobes look JUST LIKE the ones on my old 1968 Chevy Impala with a 327. That was in about 78 or so.
Given the fact that the failures were/are pretty much identical, and the engine designs aren't, I'd lean towards the statement the old engineer/metallurgist told me as being accurate.

 

[Ken226]

My '15 Hemi made it to 200k on oil changes according to oci since 28,684 miles, before a lifter ate the cam.

Gonna be doing different oci's now even though it's not a guarantee.

I might have asked this before, back when you did your cam install, but if so, I don't remember.

What was your oil change intervals from that 28,864 up until the time your cam self destructed?

 

[EdGs]

I might have asked this before, back when you did your cam install, but if so, I don't remember.

What was your oil change intervals from that 28,864 up until the time your cam self destructed?

DId my first change at 33k, it had been changed where I got it, with a 5k sticker on windshield. Oil was clean. After that, basically 10k miles each, I did have a couple shorter ones mixed in there, too. Maybe 7 or 8k per interval.

I used the Lubegard Biotek 3 or 4 times along the way in the first 100k I put on her.

The first several changes were 5W-20 and Fram XG10060 filters, then started using 5W-30 (all PP and a couple with PUP, wasnt always stocked at my local WallyMart).Around 140k or so, I went to the XG2, then the FE2 as soon as I saw them in stock (4 changes or so before my failure).

Sorry, just going off memory, I had a spreadsheet going in my computer, til it took a sh*t.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Engineered to fail. Definately a thing, IMO.

When my lifter failed, the needles didn't wear, the pin they roll on did. If the needles stopped rolling first, I don't know.
View attachment 578582
Note: this is a lifter from a 2015 that was built in late 2014. It is an updated lifter, and is original to the truck, AFAIK. The 'update' to the lifters must've been done prior to this, and not in 2016. I would love the see a pic of a 2016, 2017, or 2018 known original failed lifter to see if there's a difference compared to this one.

That cam lobe (#5 intake) got destroyed.
View attachment 578583

However, I did have BOTH #8 lobes just worn through the heat treat at the tips of the lobes. The lifter rollers looked and seemed normal.

You can see the pitting where the wear is, makes me wonder if the casting and heat-treat processes weren't quite right. I'm familiar with heat-treating of steels, but not cast iron. Internal bubbles might be normal? I know the skin of the heat-treat is not very thick either.

A billet steel MDS cam would be much more durable, IMO.
View attachment 578584View attachment 578585

The extreme load point where the roller pin meets the shaft in the roller tip of the rocker, serves to lacerate or "churn" the oil out of viscosity. Ditto for timing chains, VVT actuators, and so forth.

The fact is, that 0W20 oil doesn't have a long service life at THOSE stress points, thus, lowering service life of the oil germane to viscosity stability.

Moving up to 5W30 helps, and, as recently published, GM has mandated 0W40 on the 6.2L engines for JUST THAT REASON!.... with the added bonus of the $hitty crankshaft finish!

Like the late Jackie Gleason said "How sweet it is!".

Uh, how much would it cost for me to keep my ancient vehicle which was made "back in the day"?
But, wait a minute! Back in the day, there were PLENTY of other seemingly life-altering foibles involved with cars!

 

[EdGs]

......The fact is, that 0W20 oil doesn't have a long service life at THOSE stress points, thus, lowering service life of the oil germane to viscosity stability.
.............Like the late Jackie Gleason said "How sweet it is!".

Jackie also said this.......lol


Sorry, when I read your post and then you quoted The Great One, I just had to post this.

Your post is spot on, btw.

That is alot of pressure at that tiny point at that moment. Combine that with subpar or "just good enough" manufacturing, and here we are.

Nothing you can do. Fix it, and move along.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Jackie also said this.......lol
View attachment 578680

Sorry, when I read your post and then you quoted The Great One, I just had to post this.

Your post is spot on, btw.

That is alot of pressure at that tiny point at that moment. Combine that with subpar or "just good enough" manufacturing, and here we are.

Nothing you can do. Fix it, and move along.

Smokey and the Bandit! a Classic and darned good flick!

 

[Gero]

No lifter failure on my 2017 yet and currently at 144xxxkm (89k mi). Steady diet of pup530, wix xp, and very minimal idling. Im down to under 11.1% of idling. Oci at 10,000km (6200mi). Will send another sample to Blackstone at 180000km mark.

 

[Biggfoot44]

People act like these motors are paper mache. It's slightly better than 1hp per cubic inch in a *naturally aspirated* motor with a fat torque curve that routinely runs for 150k+ miles without being opened for anything and can knock around 20-ish mpg on the highway in a half ton truck. Oh no, what a **** design, what a horrible motor we've been saddled with...

Lay people gold eggs, they'll whine they are hard to stack.

These days , 150k is premature. 250k is the new 150k .