Hemi carnage - All 8 intake valves bent after cam swap

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dixiebandit69

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Facts: 2013 5.7L Hemi, with MDS and VVT.
Bad lifters killed some cam lobes, so I replaced cam and lifters with factory replacements. No fun cam upgrades.

All timing marks were verified, actually pretty simple.

I got it started Monday afternoon. Sounded good. I let it warm up completely, and shut it off.

First thing this morning, I retightened the exhaust manifold bolts, started it up, and test drove it for about ten miles.
Everything was good.
Then a few blocks from the shop, I was pulling away from a stop sign, and the engine died.
No noise, no fireworks, just dead.

Towed it back to the shop, and I've got a "cam/ crank correlation error" code.
(Side note: The starter chose this exact moment to crap-out. 180K mile original.)
When I got a new starter on it, the engine was spinning really fast and would not start.
I pulled a spark plug, put a compression gauge on it, and no compression.

Pissed and confused, I took off the timing cover (in record time, too) and rechecked the timing marks: they were dead-nuts accurate.
So I pulled a valve cover, and immediately saw that all of the intake pushrods were bent into boomerangs.

I've got the driver side head off, and Number 1 cylinder is at TDC, and the cam timing marks are dead on, so there is no chance that the timing chain was installed incorrectly.

This engine has MDS (Multiple Displacement System), and YES, all of the new lifters are installed in the correct locations.

I reused the original timing chain tensioner, as it was still in good condition, and there is no damage to it.

If the cam was so far out of time that it would bend the valves, it would never have started in the first place.
The only thing I can think of is that the Variable Valve Timing phaser (camshaft sprocket) has some sort of problem, but it doesn't make any sense: if that phaser fails, it defaults to the fully advanced position, WHICH IS THE POSITION IT IS IN WHEN SETTING THE CAM TIMING.

I really don't know what to think.

Any help is appreciated.
 
OP
OP
D

dixiebandit69

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happens all the time, the most common error, did you read dyi cam thread?

No, I did not read that thread, but I did read a Mitchell service manual, and I followed the steps to the letter.

For the record, there are a lot of unnecessary steps in that cam-swap thread.
(Ex: you do not need to remove the grille or evacuate the A/C system to remove the cam.)

I appreciate your help by giving me the link to that thread, but I didn't install limiters on the phaser, so I don't understand how this happened.

I can post pictures if you like.
 

GRN69CHV

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Are you sure the push rods weren't swapped position? I've seen bent pushrods, bent valves over the years due to cam phasing, severe valve float and incorrect pushrods.
 

1SloRam

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Pushrods installed incorrectly? That phaser is a ***** so I’ve heard. This scares me to do a cam swap instead of engine swap. Sucks you even went back OEM and still have issues.
 
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dixiebandit69

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Are you sure the push rods weren't swapped position? I've seen bent pushrods, bent valves over the years due to cam phasing, severe valve float and incorrect pushrods.

Yes, very sure. You can't mix up the pushrods, the difference in length is too great.
 

Tray Burge

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Look on the bright side, you get a new engine with that fun cam upgrade!
There's always a silver lining.
 

crackerjack1957

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I don't see it running with the wrong push rods installed on 1st crank
 

PoMansRam

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Having it run perfectly and for 10 miles and then have this happen doesn't make sense to me. Although I may have missed it in the 3 day long cam swap thread.
 

chri5k

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It seems like the cam and crank are not in time. Only way I can think to bend all 8 valves. Seems like something with the phaser perhaps. You did transfer the dowel pin from the old cam to the new right? Dowel pin sheared? Key on the crank sheared?
 

indept

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If valves are bent then pistons must have some damage. Did you take any pictures?
 

James OBrien

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It seems like the cam and crank are not in time. Only way I can think to bend all 8 valves. Seems like something with the phaser perhaps. You did transfer the dowel pin from the old cam to the new right? Dowel pin sheared? Key on the crank sheared?

This is the only thing that makes sense to me too.
 

HEMIMANN

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I've wondered how much benefit all this VVT craziness really provides. I know manufacturers are pulling out all the stops to get any incremental fuel efficiency gains, but at some point the pain can't be worth the infinitesimal gain any longer.

This seems just nuts to me. Looks like OP has himself a 180k engine.
 

Daw14

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Op never said valves were bent, he said bent pushrods. Focus .
 

yoda

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It seems like the cam and crank are not in time. Only way I can think to bend all 8 valves. Seems like something with the phaser perhaps. You did transfer the dowel pin from the old cam to the new right? Dowel pin sheared? Key on the crank sheared?

This. Or did you forget to torque the cam bolt? Sheared the pin?
 
OP
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dixiebandit69

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Okay guys, I'm home and I have pictures.

But in response to some of your questions:

New cam (Melling) came with its own dowel pin - no issue there.

Cam gear/ phaser was torqued to 72 lb/ft.

Here's the engine with cylinder 1 at Top Dead Center. (Circled for clarity.)
Hemi - TDC.jpg
Here is the cam timing mark, which is supposed to be at 12-O'clock, and between those two marked links (really, it doesn't have to be between these particular links, as long as it's at exactly 12-O'clock. If you turn the engine over two revolutions, the marks will have moved down the chain, but the mark on the gear should return to 12-O'clock.
Hemi - Timing mark.jpg
Here is a service manual picture of what I'm talking about.
Before anyone asks about the mark on the crank gear, it's impossible to see that with the oil pump installed, but the fact that cylinder one is at TDC is all you need to know. You would not have been able to get these marks to line up unless you had a severely worn timing set (which I would not have reused.).
Hemi - timing marks.jpg
This picture proves that the tensioner is in good condition.

Hemi - Tensioner.jpg


Last of all, here's the carnage. See how the intake valves are open, even though there's nothing pressing them open? That **** ain't right...
They're ******.
Or as they say in Spanish, "el ******-o."
Hemi - Valves.jpg
 

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