Hemi-tick Update

[DrGrass]

I just wanted to share the following since I’ve received so much valuable information from this forum. I have a 2015 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn. I’ve had major problems with the truck since I bought it in November 2020 with approximately 85K miles on it.

Nov 2021 after a few weeks the air suspension went out on it. I took it to the dealer where I purchased it and they replaced the air suspension control module. The truck came with a limited warranty and they replaced it at no charge. A month later and out of warranty, same problem. The truck would bottom out while driving and not go back up when it was cold outside. I decided to do the air delete and went with the Monroe solution. Problem solved and I loved the new ride quality. Fast forward to July 2022 and the the following happens:

July 2022 - CEL came on. I had a cylinder 2 misfire (P0302)

• Swapped cylinder 2 spark plug - still misfire
• Swapped cylinder 2 coil - still misfire
• Changed all spark plugs - still misfire
• Changed cylinder 2 coil - still misfire
• Changed cylinder 2 and 4 lifters - cylinder 2 lifter was seized. Now only get misfire on hard acceleration. Lack of power on steep inclines. Truck runs fine besides the tick and the lack of acceleration on inclines

12/10/22 - Upgraded suspension from Monroe air-delete suspension to Eibach PRO-LIFT-KIT Springs (Front & Rear Springs) from Nick. I also got new tires Falken Wildpeak A/T3W (35/11.5r20). The truck ride is amazing. Thanks Nick!!!!

12/17/22 - I got the oil changed Saturday morning with RL 5w-30 and a RP 20-500 oil filter. After the oil change I immediately noticed a difference in how the truck ran. The tick was gone upon startup and I noticed more power during acceleration. Cam lobe may be damaged. Will take note of any engine changes while trying to decide to replace cam/lifter with OEM replacements or go performance cam/lifters/tune rabbit hole. Thank you all!!!!

 

[Flip-er]

Keep us posted please

 

[Burla]

I just wanted to share the following since I’ve received so much valuable information from this forum. I have a 2015 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn. I’ve had major problems with the truck since I bought it in November 2020 with approximately 85K miles on it.

Nov 2021 after a few weeks the air suspension went out on it. I took it to the dealer where I purchased it and they replaced the air suspension control module. The truck came with a limited warranty and they replaced it at no charge. A month later and out of warranty, same problem. The truck would bottom out while driving and not go back up when it was cold outside. I decided to do the air delete and went with the Monroe solution. Problem solved and I loved the new ride quality. Fast forward to July 2022 and the the following happens:

July 2022 - CEL came on. I had a cylinder 2 misfire (P0302)

• Swapped cylinder 2 spark plug - still misfire
• Swapped cylinder 2 coil - still misfire
• Changed all spark plugs - still misfire
• Changed cylinder 2 coil - still misfire
• Changed cylinder 2 and 4 lifters - cylinder 2 lifter was seized. Now only get misfire on hard acceleration. Lack of power on steep inclines. Truck runs fine besides the tick and the lack of acceleration on inclines

12/10/22 - Upgraded suspension from Monroe air-delete suspension to Eibach PRO-LIFT-KIT Springs (Front & Rear Springs) from Nick. I also got new tires Falken Wildpeak A/T3W (35/11.5r20). The truck ride is amazing. Thanks Nick!!!!

12/17/22 - I got the oil changed Saturday morning with RL 5w-30 and a RP 20-500 oil filter. After the oil change I immediately noticed a difference in how the truck ran. The tick was gone upon startup and I noticed more power during acceleration. Cam lobe may be damaged. Will take note of any engine changes while trying to decide to replace cam/lifter with OEM replacements or go performance cam/lifters/tune rabbit hole. Thank you all!!!!

I'd probably still be a little nervous, if the lob was blasted, the thick film could have given you a little more fluid friction to help move that lifter, but it likely wont last. The good news is you have found something that when fixed might prevent the next lob from getting wiped. Id however hope I am wrong and somehow this will work for a good long time. You never know what came first, the lifter roller siezed or the cam lob wiped, many people believe the rollers cause the lssue of which I have seen no proof and personally believe that to be but a few causes for these cam fails. The fact you already got a mis fire it is very likely the cam is worn to the nub. However, the new lifter might have more travel, as in the siezed lifter might have lost a hair more of the contact point on the cam. In summary, it is possible you have more contact on the cam lob from fluid friction and the new lifter, and perhaps that will buy you some time, but I'd be careful planning a long trip in that thing, and towing would be out of the question if it were me.

On some weekend if you felt motivated you can check the oil control valve for metal shavings, plenty of youtubes on that, if no metal then it makes sense to replace the cam at some point. If there is metal there, that is what the dealer determines to need a replacement engine. It sounds like you have some mechanic skills, so in that case of you try the cam replacement yourself, it might be worth the risk even if you see metal there.

 

[Sillygoose]

Did you/ your mechanic look at the cam lobes thru the bore when the lifters were changed?

 

[DrGrass]

I'd probably still be a little nervous, if the lob was blasted, the thick film could have given you a little more fluid friction to help move that lifter, but it likely wont last. The good news is you have found something that when fixed might prevent the next lob from getting wiped. Id however hope I am wrong and somehow this will work for a good long time. You never know what came first, the lifter roller siezed or the cam lob wiped, many people believe the rollers cause the lssue of which I have seen no proof and personally believe that to be but a few causes for these cam fails. The fact you already got a mis fire it is very likely the cam is worn to the nub. However, the new lifter might have more travel, as in the siezed lifter might have lost a hair more of the contact point on the cam. In summary, it is possible you have more contact on the cam lob from fluid friction and the new lifter, and perhaps that will buy you some time, but I'd be careful planning a long trip in that thing, and towing would be out of the question if it were me.

On some weekend if you felt motivated you can check the oil control valve for metal shavings, plenty of youtubes on that, if no metal then it makes sense to replace the cam at some point. If there is metal there, that is what the dealer determines to need a replacement engine. It sounds like you have some mechanic skills, so in that case of you try the cam replacement yourself, it might be worth the risk even if you see metal there.

Thanks for the info. If the cam was worn to the nub wouldn't I get a misfire? I do not have a misfire now, unless I do a hard acceleration. I do not have the skill or the time to swap a cam. I've got a mechanic that takes care of everything for me. I'm planning on swapping the cam and lifters this winter. I'm in no rush really. If the motor locks up before then, I'll have an excuse to get a new motor. I have no plans on making any road trips until the truck is fixed. I like renting vehicles! I've towed my trailer and lawn equipment towards the end of the summer with no problem. Again, I was taking it easy and no hard accelerations. What do you think is the reason why we are having these lifter/cam issues?

 

[Burla]

Thanks for the info. If the cam was worn to the nub wouldn't I get a misfire? I do not have a misfire now, unless I do a hard acceleration. I do not have the skill or the time to swap a cam. I've got a mechanic that takes care of everything for me. I'm planning on swapping the cam and lifters this winter. I'm in no rush really. If the motor locks up before then, I'll have an excuse to get a new motor. I have no plans on making any road trips until the truck is fixed. I like renting vehicles! I've towed my trailer and lawn equipment towards the end of the summer with no problem. Again, I was taking it easy and no hard accelerations. What do you think is the reason why we are having these lifter/cam issues?

This guy was correct with one exception, he developed this strategy based on his experience with flat tappet cams that use AW additives to survive, we now know rather then AW additives in hemi's it is EP additives that make this condition better. Proven buy FCA's srt oil having over 200ppm moly. AW or anti wear additives wipe off easily and repopulate easily, EP or extreme pressure additives form a plating effect that are harder to wipe off. Makes you wonder if they considered high moly as a better strategy with flat tappets because those challenges seam similar with what we have going on with hemi's, but that is not really here and there because we are talking hemi tick. Personally, if my thicking is correct they didnt have MoDTC back with flat tappets which is super moly, the type everyone uses these days. Maybe flat tappet owners should try that, dunno. We know zddp isnt the answer in hemi's from forum testing, but high moly has at a minimum provided 50% success at killing hemi tick, if you use better products up to 80% success.

 

[DrGrass]

This guy was correct with one exception, he developed this strategy based on his experience with flat tappet cams that use AW additives to survive, we now know rather then AW additives in hemi's it is EP additives that make this condition better. Proven buy FCA's srt oil having over 200ppm moly. AW or anti wear additives wipe off easily and repopulate easily, EP or extreme pressure additives form a plating effect that are harder to wipe off. Makes you wonder if they considered high moly as a better strategy with flat tappets because those challenges seam similar with what we have going on with hemi's, but that is not really here and there because we are talking hemi tick. Personally, if my thicking is correct they didnt have MoDTC back with flat tappets which is super moly, the type everyone uses these days. Maybe flat tappet owners should try that, dunno. We know zddp isnt the answer in hemi's from forum testing, but high moly has at a minimum provided 50% success at killing hemi tick, if you use better products up to 80% success.

I read this letter in one of your earlier posts. Thanks for sharing that info again. So what do you think? Do you think its a design issue, oil issue, etc.? I definitely hear and feel a difference switching over to RL. We'll see what happens after a few thousand miles. Thanks again for all the good info and the quick response. It has helped me tremendously.

 

[DrGrass]

Did you/ your mechanic look at the cam lobes thru the bore when the lifters were changed?

He said the cam looked fine. Not sure how much of an examination it was though.

 

[Burla]

My tick started on a brand new 2010 truck 3500 miles new, sounded like a broke sewing machine. Tried some stuff, nothing worked, put in redline and with the exception of a couple mis moves in viscosity and filter, the truck has been tick free since using redline, now year 11 or so don't remember the exact date. So what would you think if this was you? I think it is clear as daylight, this is a lubrication issue and that includes design but also includes the right type pf oil. People who own flat tappet cams just understand they need high zinc, people that own hemi's at some point will know they need heavy additives. I would bet some flat tappets also can go for 300k miles on shelf oil, which is the elephant in the room with hemi's because so many guys don't need a lubrication strategy. It used to be redline was just a little more then shelf oil, well those days are over. So the pricing really hurts this in many budget seeking folks, of which I was born and raised that way so I am empathitic. But the good news is many shelf oils are now heavy moly which is a new thing, so guys can go heavy moly the latest being Valvoline EP but there are others and they come and go. Or the easy way toss on lubegard biotech to any oil, boost the moly. That is what I think, for my truck all I needed was a high performance oil. I had talked to the guys business partner who made that paper and he kept saying zinc in our conversation, but maybe the actual guy would have appreciated the EP angle, since I didnt talk to him dunno on that. At a minimum guys should run a high moly oil choices are likely the same price as non moly oils, so no downside. Next level is chose a moly oil could be cheap as kirkland and add biotech. Next level is use a High Performance oil such as Redline or now HPL. No matter what hemi you have level one is no extra cost, so no reason to not run moly.

My thought on the lifter design and function without knowing the minutia of the design is something is preventing the lifter from lifting easily as in most other applications. Everything I have seen still leads me to this thought to this day. Add the correct additive and all of a sudden that lifter has no more obstacle in lifting. There is a percentage of guys who still have an issue even after trying a HP oil, clearly in some hemi's the lubrication is really bad and they cant overcome that. It would have to be an individual diagnose to figure those out, above my pay grade.