How effective is your air con on new 2500's?

[RubberFrog]

I

could you take a picture of the hose you are going to clamp? So I know exactly which one to clamp. This would be a great help to me.

I did this in a third gen. Eventually (post warranty), I installed a valve. It made a significant difference in the temp.

 

[onedoubles]

Owner of a brand new 2020 Ram 2500 HD, very exciting....except for the super weak A/C. My wife thought I was crazy when I complained about it, now I know I'm not the only one. My 2016 Tundra would get much colder within 5 mins

 

[Sherman Bird]

Owner of a brand new 2020 Ram 2500 HD, very exciting....except for the super weak A/C. My wife thought I was crazy when I complained about it, now I know I'm not the only one. My 2016 Tundra would get much colder within 5 mins

I'm dealing with a very nicely kept 2006 Expedition. This vehicle has done very well the prior 13 years of its life, HVAC wise. This year, however, the extra brutal Texas heat has made it a different story. I know it's not an FCA product, but the concept is identical.

My 2002 Sequoia is what I call the "Toyota" version of the expedition. I know they share the exact same U-joints and the same running board lights. I do not know if they share any other pieces, but the vehicles are at least half siblings.

My Toyota is equipped with an auxiliary cooling fan on the driver's side of the condenser. When high side (head) pressure reaches about 250 PSI, that fan comes on. The summer of 2015 was brutal in August, and I noticed the A/C was Cool at the vents, but not cold like they had been, and the interior wasn't comfortable. Sound familiar? I observed that the auxiliary fan on the condenser wasn't working... so I did trouble shooting and determined it was bad. Toyota was VERY proud of just the little motor at near 300 dollars! I bit the bullet and bought it and installed it and WOW!, what a difference!

I tender the idea that FCA might should have installed this auxiliary pusher fan in front of the condenser. If these trucks aren't equipped with a condenser pusher fan, I'd think adding one would really help drop head pressure, thus getting a colder vent temperature. I'm retro fitting a 14" Hayden onto this 2006 Expedition because I get freezing cold mid 40's outlet temps in the shade at morning or late evening with 228 PSI head pressure. but it shoots up to mid 60's in the sun loaded 3:00 PM brutal heat with head pressures shooting up to 400 PSI. I can spritz the condenser with a water bottle through the grille and get head pressure down to 230. This Expedition has a new fan clutch and thermostat and radiator cap, the condenser and radiator have been back flushed through the cores using Purple Power and a garden hose pressure wand.

I'm going to use compressor clutch power for a relay pick to cycle this fan and wire the power side of the relay directly to B+ using an inline 30A mini fuse holder.

 

[Sandevino]

I installed the clamp and the air temps were colder by 7 degrees on average. The driver and passenger left vents were colder and the respective right vents were a few degrees warmer. This likely has something to do with the duct layout, but I’ve not torn into the dash to verify.

I drove a 30 mile circuit and noticed the the coolant temps were 10 degrees hotter than normal. The temps rose from 208-212 to 218-222 at highway speed and near the 230 range at idle. Coincidence, maybe... I pulled the clamp off, ran the same loop and the temps were back to their normal range of 208-212 on the highway and at idle.

From looking at the design of the cooling system, the water pump has a dedicated loop out and back in to the pump supplying coolant to the heater core. The inlet and outlet tubing to the core are the same diameter so theoretically, clamping the outlet will add pressure to the pump, resulting in lower efficiency which resulted in higher temps.

The solution to resolve both the air conditioning temp issue and retain proper engine cooling efficiency is to install a three way valve on both the inlet and outlet lines and an isolation valve between the three way valve and the core on the inlet side.

This is the setup on my tractor which has much higher cooling demands than the Hemi. I’m not going to do this until the warranty drops or it irritates me enough.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I installed the clamp and the air temps were colder by 7 degrees on average. The driver and passenger left vents were colder and the respective right vents were a few degrees warmer. This likely has something to do with the duct layout, but I’ve not torn into the dash to verify.

I drove a 30 mile circuit and noticed the the coolant temps were 10 degrees hotter than normal. The temps rose from 208-212 to 218-222 at highway speed and near the 230 range at idle. Coincidence, maybe... I pulled the clamp off, ran the same loop and the temps were back to their normal range of 208-212 on the highway and at idle.

From looking at the design of the cooling system, the water pump has a dedicated loop out and back in to the pump supplying coolant to the heater core. The inlet and outlet tubing to the core are the same diameter so theoretically, clamping the outlet will add pressure to the pump, resulting in lower efficiency which resulted in higher temps.

The solution to resolve both the air conditioning temp issue and retain proper engine cooling efficiency is to install a three way valve on both the inlet and outlet lines and an isolation valve between the three way valve and the core on the inlet side.

This is the setup on my tractor which has much higher cooling demands than the Hemi. I’m not going to do this until the warranty drops or it irritates me enough.

View attachment 219427

Blocking the coolant flow on many modern systems can lead to overheating in spots such as the vulnerable rear corners of the block right under the heads. The solution is to put the kind of valve on which provides bypass when the heater core is excluded from the circuit. Dorman makes one, as well as others.

I realize that your improvement to the heat and ventilation is a valid one, and I'd recommend it. I do not know yet of a way to make it automated when "A/C" is chosen, BUT, the temp cannot be blended during more mild weather conditions. I'd think maybe a manual switch or cable outside of automated operation would insure the blend function when the outdoor temperatures aren't so blasted hot!

My Aux fan idea is a definite way to insure lower head pressures, thus keeping the compressor alive much longer. My Sequoia has the original system untouched for the 18 years of its life. The Expedition had a new compressor replaced 3 years ago this month to address a leaky front seal. I wonder if 400 PSI head pressures as opposed to 250-260 PSI had anything to do with it? I think so.

 

[Sandevino]

Aux fans have their place but I’d investigate for blockages before adding a fan.

The head pressure on my 2020 2500 was 220.

I have no doubt the 400psi head pressure didn’t help the life of your compressor.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Aux fans have their place but I’d investigate for blockages before adding a fan.

The head pressure on my 2020 2500 was 220.

I have no doubt the 400psi head pressure didn’t help the life of your compressor.

No blockages.... the low side coincides in linear fashion; a blockage would result in low side going into suction. No, this is just brisket cooking fuggin hot!

The proof besides the correct corresponding low side pressures is the fact that I can reduce head pressure with a water bottle and spritzing the condenser, and get mid 40's outlet temps once again. THAT would not happen if I were dealing with a blockage!

 

[Sandevino]

I meant a blockage in the cooling fins. I’ve seen bugs fins their way into places they shouldn’t be in Texas.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I meant a blockage in the cooling fins. I’ve seen bugs fins their way into places they shouldn’t be in Texas.

Yes, And I stated that I'd power washed the fins backwards on both the radiator and condenser.... got a modest amount of dirt/bugs, but not as bad as I've seen before!

 

[RandomRam]

So I misread my gauge. My AC is only pushing 62f at the center vent with it on max. I checked it again today after another interesting experience. I was driving with the windows down and fan only on fresh air and was getting blasted with hot air. Ambient temp was 88-90, very comfortable here due to how dry it is. Air coming out of the vents read 105-110f. I am going to make an appointment, definitely should not be getting hot air with the AC off and temp set to cold.

62f feels good when it’s 90f. Doesn’t feel like it’s doing anything at 66f ambient temps, makes sense now.

 

[RandomRam]

Got an appointment in two weeks. Vacation is getting in the way. Service advisor initially told me the 62f AC was normal for R1234YF, had to remind him a 2500 has R134a. Also told him about the hot air from the vents and they think it may be a blend door issue.

I did test drive a couple 2020s and both had nicer AC than mine. Kind of frustrating since I love this truck other than that.

 

[Sherman Bird]

No blockages.... the low side coincides in linear fashion; a blockage would result in low side going into suction. No, this is just brisket cooking fuggin hot!

The proof besides the correct corresponding low side pressures is the fact that I can reduce head pressure with a water bottle and spritzing the condenser, and get mid 40's outlet temps once again. THAT would not happen if I were dealing with a blockage!

UPDATE: I installed a 14 inch Hayden fan as an auxiliary fan on the A/C condenser and wired a relay to engage the fan when the compressor cycles on. Head came down to just under 200 PSI (A huge improvement) and outlet temps dropped 12 degrees!

 

[crazykid1994]

We’ve been getting 95° days with real feel up to 106° here in south Florida. 85% humidity or higher. My ac has been cutting out sometimes in this weather and it’s super annoying getting that humid smell and warm air from the vents. I took some tubing insulation like what’s used for hot water lines or ac lines and insulated the vacuum line in the engine bay to reduce heat absorption into the compressor. My ac has yet to cut off again since I’ve done that and it feels like at my vents the air comes out 3-4° cooler than before as well. I used to be able to go under the hood and the vacuum line was warm or even hot from the engine bay with the ac on. Now that it’s insulated the vacuum line is cool and almost cold all the way to the compressor. The pressure line doesn’t feel as hot either coming from the compressor. All that relates to more efficient cooling. Yes I purchased closed cell foam tube insulation and made sure it was heat rated and also fire retardant as well. It’s been installed for 2 weeks so far and have no signs of any issues.

 

[RubberFrog]

UPDATE: I installed a 14 inch Hayden fan as an auxiliary fan on the A/C condenser and wired a relay to engage the fan when the compressor cycles on. Head came down to just under 200 PSI (A huge improvement) and outlet temps dropped 12 degrees!

We need a parts list, and some pictures.

 

[Sherman Bird]

We need a parts list, and some pictures.

Customer took his Expedition home... so .... no pictures. I bought a Hayden 14 inch cooling fan and mounted it as a pusher to the front of the condenser on the driver's side of the hood support. This was opposite the gas and liquid feeds to the condenser for more efficient cooling effect. I found a solid state BMW cooling fan relay in my vast array of goodies, and wired the fan feed from the battery + at the external starter solenoid. I chose to ground the low side of the relay pick circuit and use Compressor positive to pick the relay on the high side. This compressor circuit had a nice hefty diode to prevent feedback, making it a suitable location to pick the relay and not interfere with PCM/ECM operation. It works beautifully.

 

[RandomRam]

Ambient temp 65, vent temp with AC off but fan on high was almost 80 degrees. It’s pretty apparent to me this is a blend door issue. Seems vent temp is 15 to 20 degrees above ambient when the AC is off. No wonder I only needed the heat on when it was below 40.


I love my truck and won’t get rid of it over this because it’s tolerable.... I just wish it was better. Funny thing is I drove a 2018 recently and it was a little better but not significantly. My wife’s Subaru will straight freeze you out and it’s got R1234YF in it.

 

[RandomRam]

My dealer is pretty awesome. They evac’d the system, checked for leaks, and performed a blend door calibration. Issue wasn’t solved, they submitted a star case. FCA advised they are aware there is an issue and are still working on a fix. My service advisor said I’ll be contacted when that happens.

 

[Ricks Ram]

My dealer is pretty awesome. They evac’d the system, checked for leaks, and performed a blend door calibration. Issue wasn’t solved, they submitted a star case. FCA advised they are aware there is an issue and are still working on a fix. My service advisor said I’ll be contacted when that happens.

It's nice when a dealer will actually try to resolve your problem and admit there is one instead of their usuall go to which is (could not duplicate issue) and just blow you off when they know this is an issue with these trucks. Hopefully FCA will address it and come up with a fix. It won't cost a lot in parts but since they need to pull the dash to remove the HVAC system it will definitely be a little bit more labor.

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[RandomRam]

It's nice when a dealer will actually try to resolve your problem and admit there is one instead of their usuall go to which is (could not duplicate issue) and just blow you off when they know this is an issue with these trucks. Hopefully FCA will address it and come up with a fix. It won't cost a lot in parts but since they need to pull the dash to remove the HVAC system it will definitely be a little bit more labor.

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They did all this with zero prodding by me. My dealer is why I bought a Ram over a Ford, both are solid trucks. Our local Ford dealer is the absolute worst I have ever dealt with. The Ram dealer really takes care of customers.

 

[2015HD]

Glad to see this thread and that FCA is working on this topic. My 2015 2500 AC was MUCH cooler than my 2019 and it seemed apparent to me that the system was blending warm in.