Premature failure - 2018 RAM 1500 (3.6 Penstar) — Coolant Intrusion into Cylinder #2, another Penstar problem.... Christmas Special!

[Hootbro]

Appreciate the input but the vet card is who I am and I won't be changing that anytime soon. I added since I am new here.

That is great, it is part of your identity and I take nothing from that. The point is that in this situation, it has no bearing to weigh in or tip the scales on what or any obligation Stellantis has to rectify the situation for you for which they really have no obligation here.

 

[rvance]

I am a 20 year U.S. active duty veteran with a disability rating. I have owned Mopar products since January 2007 and have been a loyal fan of the brand ever since (2 Jeeps and this RAM). I’m proud of that loyalty—but I want to be clear; I expect fair treatment, accountability and ownership of failures.

Vehicle & Maintenance
2018 RAM 1500 Crew Cab 4WD, 3.6 Penstar with ~112,400 miles
Regularly serviced at required intervals; receipts available upon request
Purchase in spring 2020 at ~49k miles, no major issues other than:
A periodic/phantom EVAP style fuel vapor leak (brief CEL that clears)
Occasional fueling back pressure that prematurely shuts the pump nozzle

Recent Events (Just Before the Holidays)
Before Thanksgiving, I used 2 Lucas fuel treatment (correctly) across three tanks. CEL appeared (again), and parts store confirmed #2 cylinder misfire. I replaced spark plugs (they were due) and swapped coils (#2 ↔ #4) to isolate ignition coil to see if problem would replicate on right bank — light cleared and truck ran normally.
Drove Spring/Conroe → Corpus Christi and around town: no CEL.
Then CEL returned; take it to the auto parts store and it reads as #2 misfire; it cleared next morning by itself… weird
On return trip, I saw coolant temps up to ~235°F at my lunch stop (my normal is ~190–225°F) with the fan running hard. Stopped vehicle at restaurant and popped the hood.. smelled that sweet dreadful smell… coolant. Further investigation yields a split seam in the plastic. I take it to a shop and have it pressure tested and confirmed a split plastic seam on the radiator. Radiator was replaced by shop; engine ran to operating temp and system purged; drove home.
On Black Friday, temp again crept to ~235°F at idle; a second auto shop confirmed compression held and purged air; temp returned to ~190°F—but CEL returned.
Given the sequence of events, I suspected injectors and took the truck to the RAM dealer to confirm root cause.

Dealer Findings & Charges
Dealer charged $250 for diagnostics (Even after I already explicitly told them it was a #2 misfire on intake)..
After several hours, they report… #2 misfire…. Thanks Captain Obvious…
They then requested another ~$500 to pull the plenum/intake for additional testing.
I authorized a pressure test & leak down with borescope: coolant entering cylinder #2 was observed.
Dealer stated the head gasket “cannot be replaced” and that the truck requires a new engine ~$13,000 quoted.

I attempted to resolve this through private channels, however resolution could not be reached. Nor could I further escalate without reaching a rude representative at your call center (1-866-726-4636) which is unacceptable when your trying to resolve.

Thanks @RamCares … just what everyone needs before Christmas…

A head gasket failure at ~112k miles on a well maintained Pentastar should not happen. There is no maintenance item I ignored or could have performed that would have prevented coolant intrusion into a cylinder. This points squarely to design/engineering—not neglect.

Being told that a head gasket is not serviceable and that the only path forward is a full engine replacement is an additional engineering/serviceability failure. If true, this design choice imposes disproportionate cost on owners for a failure that should be repairable.

This is all unfolding right before the holidays. As a veteran, I should not have to fight this hard for a basic, reasonable remedy on a vehicle I’ve maintained and trusted. Stand behind your product and make it right.

Receipts and service records are organized and ready to share along with full case number. So feel free to DM me
I have supported Mopar for nearly two decades. I am asking RAM/Mopar to stand behind this vehicle and do right by a veteran who has upheld his end of ownership. Please escalate and contact me to resolve this quickly and fairly.
Thank you,
Nathan Franklin — U.S. Veteran (20 years AD)
Mopar owner since 2007 | Houston–Spring/Conroe, TX

I used the dealer in Humble after a couple of bad experiences with the North Freeway one. These things change, but it's worth talking to them.
For long out of warranty card, we used this guy.
Vt Auto RepairAuto repair
Phone281) 999-6444
Closed now

• Sat8:00 AM - 6:30 PM

243 Blue Bell RdHouston, TX 77037

 

[BenchTest]

I don't understand the concern about the V6 running up around 225. Today as I was driving around I was watching temps, and when the analog needle is around midway at normal, the gauge reads about 221 to 223 when in traffic, then it would go down to 195 198 or so at speed. And that's in about 60° weather on level ground. I think these engines are designed to run a little bit hotter. Vintage engines usually ran a little bit cooler, but I think modern ones run hotter for emissions reasons, and it also helps keep moisture out of the oil.

Did you see my earlier post on the subject?

 

[tap4154]

Did you see my earlier post on the subject?

The one where you mentioned you put a rocker switch to turn the fan on earlier? I saw that one. I don't see why there's a reason to do that. I think they have the fan engineered to come on when they think it should. I don't know your age, but we older folks are sure used to engines running a bit cooler, but as I said, I think this is just typical for modern engines.

 

[BenchTest]

The one where you mentioned you put a rocker switch to turn the fan on earlier? I saw that one. I don't see why there's a reason to do that. I think they have the fan engineered to come on when they think it should. I don't know your age, but we older folks are sure used to engines running a bit cooler, but as I said, I think this is just typical for modern engines.

I'm not turning on the factory/OEM fan early, I have wired in an aux. cooling fan that runs completely independent of that. The factory fan is PWM and won't run off just a 12V switch. The reason is low speed/idle allows the engine to heat soak and run all the way up to max temp before the fan comes on briefly and pulls it down a couple of degrees below the threshold and shut back off. It's the same thought process for those who have removed the AGS - stabilize your temps going down the road and not fluctuate it up and down based on shutter position. Consistent temps are better than 30 degree swings every few seconds or minute.

 

[7091ram]

I bought in 2020 and have had zero issues other than silly fuel vapor EVAP CELs. No records before either, however I've got every single oil change, air filter, brakes, tires and everything in between since 2020.

I only reached 235 degrees and that was brief. I think they said new engine cause they could at least give me some extra life out of it. I don't have 13k though..

You think I'm crazy not to just change head gaskets???

My main concern is it being warped, but I never let it go above 235...

I don't know, I'm in a tight spot and not quite sure what to do atm.

Even if he's is warped a machine shop can check it for that and also for cracks and surface it if it is warped.

 

[Steverino31]

There are several lessons to be learned. 1: The truck is off warranty. I received notice yesterday, that my 2022 Ram 2500 Cummins is off warranty at 14,000 miles that i ordered out new made in Saltillo, Mexico. They want me to buy an extended warranty. I passed and will take my chances.
2. Nobody feels sorry for you. Ford is just as bad with their eco boost.
3. Having owned many Chrysler products and having worked with several ex Mopar mechanics i can assure you that the head gasket is leaking. A common problem for Chrysler 4cyl. And v6 engines for at least 40 years.
4: Proper repair is to pull the cylinder heads and do a valve job are resurface the mating surfaces. Reinstall using Felpro gaskets and new ARP head bolts. Head bolts should be torqued down ONLY ONCE. Don't reuse. A little tip.
Ben there, with a k-car Reliant with a 4cyl with 165,000 miles.
Prevention: Use Valvoline full synthtic motor oil 5w-30 or thicker, use a quality oil filter, change oil and filter every 3,000 miles. Keep coolent to full mark. Keep motor oil to full mark.

 

[BenchTest]

There are several lessons to be learned. 1: The truck is off warranty. I received notice yesterday, that my 2022 Ram 2500 Cummins is off warranty at 14,000 miles that i ordered out new made in Saltillo, Mexico. They want me to buy an extended warranty. I passed and will take my chances.
2. Nobody feels sorry for you. Ford is just as bad with their eco boost.
3. Having owned many Chrysler products and having worked with several ex Mopar mechanics i can assure you that the head gasket is leaking. A common problem for Chrysler 4cyl. And v6 engines for at least 40 years.
4: Proper repair is to pull the cylinder heads and do a valve job are resurface the mating surfaces. Reinstall using Felpro gaskets and new ARP head bolts. Head bolts should be torqued down ONLY ONCE. Don't reuse. A little tip.
Ben there, with a k-car Reliant with a 4cyl with 165,000 miles.
Prevention: Use Valvoline full synthtic motor oil 5w-30 or thicker, use a quality oil filter, change oil and filter every 3,000 miles. Keep coolent to full mark. Keep motor oil to full mark.

This is a clown a$$ bunch of statements. I'm guessing you're in the comedy business?

You can assure him the head gasket is leaking over the internet? Solid.
Going to lump sum all Chrysler 4/6 cylinders in the last 40 years into one statement? Oh yeah.
Must be Felpro gaskets? Got it.
Better use ARP bolts or else, huh? Laugh.
Referencing a K-Car to this thread is ROLL ON THE FLOOR laughable.
SO, what happens if you DON'T use exactly 5W-30 or "thicker" Valvoline? Do the spiked-hair purple monkeys start running around the crankcase with hammers knocking parts off? ****.
CLOWN

 

[tap4154]

There are several lessons to be learned. 1: The truck is off warranty. I received notice yesterday, that my 2022 Ram 2500 Cummins is off warranty at 14,000 miles that i ordered out new made in Saltillo, Mexico. They want me to buy an extended warranty. I passed and will take my chances.
2. Nobody feels sorry for you. Ford is just as bad with their eco boost.
3. Having owned many Chrysler products and having worked with several ex Mopar mechanics i can assure you that the head gasket is leaking. A common problem for Chrysler 4cyl. And v6 engines for at least 40 years.
4: Proper repair is to pull the cylinder heads and do a valve job are resurface the mating surfaces. Reinstall using Felpro gaskets and new ARP head bolts. Head bolts should be torqued down ONLY ONCE. Don't reuse. A little tip.
Ben there, with a k-car Reliant with a 4cyl with 165,000 miles.
Prevention: Use Valvoline full synthtic motor oil 5w-30 or thicker, use a quality oil filter, change oil and filter every 3,000 miles. Keep coolent to full mark. Keep motor oil to full mark.

Head gaskets are not a common problem with the 3.6 V6, except for a couple years, and when you say you should change your oil and filter every 3,000 miles, are you a former Jiffy Lube employee?

 

[Grams]

Sorry I failed to properly establish my history….when making my first post…. Hope it’s not too late…. I’m an Eagle Scout and Deacon of my church and as a taxpayer I’ve helped pay for Veterans benefits, and my family has several members who are Veterans who risked their lives for our mutual benefits, and I’ve worked as a volunteer at the Houston VA Hospital and saved a Vet’s life once when he tried to die on me while I was flying the airplane taking him to the ER… and I paid my way thru flight school as a Toyota mech….. I hope that gets me special treatment at a Ram Dealer if I ever have a problem with my Used Ram Truck.

Otherwise, I’d mention that 1: sand from block casting 5 years and 112K miles after manufacture is unlikely to be the cause of overheating, 2: Low coolant which the operator failed to notice from the previously acknowledged coolant leak (and from the #2 misfire cause that was overlooked) is a more likely suspect, 3: Overheating is not the responsibility of the OEM ..not even under warranty if it was ignored and allowed to occur multiple times, 4: The Ram Dealer who recommended a replacement engine probably mentioned it that such engine would come with a nice warranty which a gasket-replacement would not (but the jar-heads I worked with wouldn’t have had the attention-span to remember that comment), and 5: no one owes you anything other than the same respect any other citizen who worked in public service deserves, and lastly, 6: No one can “guarantee” the 112K mile tranny, rear axle, wheel-hubs, muffler, radio or heated mirrors will work a single-minute longer than the necessary repair this former public employee should pay for to fix his overheated engine.

Hope that helps clarify things, even if it pizzes folks off at me personally, but that’s how I feel about people who think something is “owed’ them because they simply did the job for which they volunteered and was paid for.

Merry Christmas to All.

 

[tap4154]

Sorry I failed to properly establish my history….when making my first post…. Hope it’s not too late…. I’m an Eagle Scout and Deacon of my church and as a taxpayer I’ve helped pay for Veterans benefits, and my family has several members who are Veterans who risked their lives for our mutual benefits, and I’ve worked as a volunteer at the Houston VA Hospital and saved a Vet’s life once when he tried to die on me while I was flying the airplane taking him to the ER… and I paid my way thru flight school as a Toyota mech….. I hope that gets me special treatment at a Ram Dealer if I ever have a problem with my Used Ram Truck.

Otherwise, I’d mention that 1: sand from block casting 5 years and 112K miles after manufacture is unlikely to be the cause of overheating, 2: Low coolant which the operator failed to notice from the previously acknowledged coolant leak (and from the #2 misfire cause that was overlooked) is a more likely suspect, 3: Overheating is not the responsibility of the OEM ..not even under warranty if it was ignored and allowed to occur multiple times, 4: The Ram Dealer who recommended a replacement engine probably mentioned it that such engine would come with a nice warranty which a gasket-replacement would not (but the jar-heads I worked with wouldn’t have had the attention-span to remember that comment), and 5: no one owes you anything other than the same respect any other citizen who worked in public service deserves, and lastly, 6: No one can “guarantee” the 112K mile tranny, rear axle, wheel-hubs, muffler, radio or heated mirrors will work a single-minute longer than the necessary repair this former public employee should pay for to fix his overheated engine.

Hope that helps clarify things, even if it pizzes folks off at me personally, but that’s how I feel about people who think something is “owed’ them because they simply did the job for which they volunteered and was paid for.

Merry Christmas to All.

When you listed your biography, you forgot to mention that someone peed in your Cheerios this morning.

I'm not a vet, the Vietnam War was ending about the time my draft number was up, but I have a lot of respect for those that did serve. I think they are owed something, other than just respect. It is a large part of their life, especially if they suffered a disability because of their service. So to demean them, and especially call them names, is especially vile in my opinion. Maybe you never heard the saying, "if you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything at all?"

 

[Grams]

When you listed your biography, you forgot to mention that someone peed in your Cheerios this morning.

I'm not a vet, the Vietnam War was ending about the time my draft number was up, but I have a lot of respect for those that did serve. I think they are owed something, other than just respect. It is a large part of their life, especially if they suffered a disability because of their service. So to demean them, and especially call them names, is especially vile in my opinion. Maybe you never heard the saying, "if you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything at all?"

I never eat Cheerios, (which has more RoundUp residue than Any Other oat product on the market.)

I did have several nice things to say. If you read my post you’ll understand the root-message is: Be observant of engine malfunctions. Fix them promptly before they escalate into bigger problems. Don’t expect something-for-nothing just because you once did a job also done by millions before you for which you volunteered and were paid.

 

[tap4154]

I guess you also didn't hear the old saying, "when in hole, stop digging".

 

[pacofortacos]

When you lost coolant is when the head gasket failed - it doesn't take long for that to happen on the Pentastar.
Plan on replacing the head, if not both. When mine went it also warped the cam bores so it needed head and cam on the one side.
By the time you noticed that it was hot and noticed the leak the damage was already done. Not that the engine is that fragile but rather I think either that the aluminum displaces heat quickly or the location/water circulation of the sensor.
Mine went hot (about the same temp as yours), then back to normal less than 1-2 minutes later, then fluctuated a bit as I drove the few miles to the dealer - damage done.

 

[Grams]

This reminds me of when I was buying a Ram 1500 in Jan ‘13…. the dealers were pushing me to buy that Pentastar engine.
As an old mechanic…I didn’t want a new type installation (despite that engine having previously been in other vehicles for a few years..I saw it as a “new” type.) So I went with the long-established 4.7L …and it did everything I asked it to for 220K miles with nothing more than oil, filters, and spark plugs.
Then it was totaled in a wreck.
So, when I went to buy a replacement…they tried to sell me the introductory “Hurricane” engine.
Nope. Not interested.

I made the mistake of buying an introductory version of a 2000 Saturn LS1 once. I learned that lesson well when it lived in the shop for Six months waiting for new parts while the wife drove a rental.

Never buy a new model or version in its Introductory Model year.

(Despite comments read in these forums claiming no issues… the Hurricane is proving a nightmare over it’s catalytic-converter and electrical issues.)

 

[Docwagon1776]

(Despite comments read in these forums claiming no issues… the Hurricane is proving a nightmare over it’s catalytic-converter and electrical issues.)

The electrical issues are not Hurricane specific, they are largely due to the switch to Atlantis electrical infrastructure and cost cutting on the physical harnesses. Stellantis is screwing the pooch across the board, from the new Daytona to Ram to self-igniting Jeeps. Post-COVID, no way I'd buy a half ton from Ram regardless of motor. They will screw up the HDs soon enough, probably.

 

[GeauxinUp]

Crazy thought...why not look into a 5.7 or even 6.4 swap?? Not sure how involved it is, going from the v6 though...

 

[CalifPhil]

My guess is the split radiator is what made the head gasket blow, there is no way Ram should help you with a repair that is 70,000 miles out of warranty. Have someone pull the head and replace the gasket, fill it with stop leak and trade it in, buy a new or used truck with an extended warranty, but I am with Ram, there is no way they owe you anything. I do thank you for your service and hope you come out of this without too much expense.

 

[Hardracer]

Not in defense of any stealership(and I just searched what kind of motor this pentastar is so I never knew....says overhead cams with an alum.block...is that correct? )I'm just spitballin here guys bear with me.
Here at work I do valve jobs on mostly outboards(and a few auto heads every so often)with overhead cams and a surface/milling if needed ....On some of these"bowed/twisted" heads those cams are locked up and require bolting and heating that head on a pretty thick plate to bring it back to free up those cams(we dont do that)....before a surfacing to true it and have those cams spin freely before being bolted back on the block...
If not one could surface the head and those cams are still bound up on the top side leading to the saddles galling eventually and shrapnel particles falling to the oil sump.Had one the other day..Intake cam was in 2 pieces and Ex. was in 3. Also a straight edge on the block especially if its aluminum should be done to make sure it isn't the "opposite" bow really throwing things out of whack when you bolt on a nice flat head..ours are allowed .004 bow(out of flatness)before a surfacing should be done(pretty much a blown head gasket at that pount).The block check is rarely ever done here as I never see the block side unless its a total rebuild.....but we've refused to surface a seriously overheated(its always an overheat)warped/twisted head to where the cams are locked up solid......I've seen them past .020.Theres more to these heads than just milling them and having them be back bolt-on perfect.
Only thing I could think of for a stealership to recommend a ridiculous diagnosis(and I really doubt this is the reason)of changing the motor without getting into it with a straightedge at least to see what's needed.
I say check the cams if they spin ok have it surfaced..if not try the junk yard and do the same or just get a new head and go with it......
Dam,that was a long one...sorry guys.

 

[MarineTanker2018]

Crazy thought...why not look into a 5.7 or even 6.4 swap?? Not sure how involved it is, going from the v6 though...

Im gonna get a rebuilt engine installed and hopefully get two more years or so out of it. Thought about that but will cost even more.

Will see where RAM is then, if all the bugs or most of the bugs are out of the Hurricane I will go for that I think.