Ram 1500 transmission

[Wild one]

In thinking more about some of this, especially Wild one's post, it puzzles me why you can't just drain the fluid, re-install the pan w/ new gasket, and add new fluid. I can kind of understand how raising the rear of the vehicle would aid in getting the fluid level right. The gear change part of the procedure (reverse, drive, 2000rpm for 5s, etc.) is a bit confounding.
For comparison, in the Dakota, I used to simply warm the engine, drop the pan (very messy), clean it & the filter, re-install it with a new gasket, and add new fluid. (BTW, on the first change, I bored a hole in the pan and welded a threaded boss to the bottom of the pan - added a drain plug - so the fluid could be easily change next time.)

As stated above by Joe,the engine running level will probably be less at the fill plug then the engine off level will be at the fill plug. Remember the old 727's,you used to check them hot while idling in neutral,it's not like having the engine running,or going through the gears is anything new,as the only way you were getting the old 3 speeds up to temp to check their level was to drive them first

 

[EdGs]

Many threads on this debating whether to leave it alone or change the fluid. I'm leaning toward leaving it alone, especially in light of the fact that I don't tow or off road with my truck.

Here's what new fluid next to my 108,000 mile 'sealed for life' fluid looked like on Jan 1, of this year.



Got the truck with 28,600 on the odometer. NO towing and NO hauling by me. The truck has no ball or hitch.

I got about 4-1/2 qts. out on the drain, and the fill took 5-1/4 qts. No evidence of leaks prior to the service.

My truck wasn't shifting terrible, but I did have the 2-1 bump periodically. Since the fluid change, it feels smoother, and the 'bump' happens alot less.

I plan on doing a drain and refill in about 2k more miles, just to get more of the old fluid out.

 

[tap4154]

Here' what new fluid next to my 108,000 mile 'sealed for life' fluid looked like on Jan 1, of this year.

View attachment 238368

Got the truck with 28,600 on the odometer. NO towing and NO hauling by me. The truck has no ball or hitch.

I got about 4-1/2 qts. out on the drain, and the fill took 5-1/4 qts. No evidence of leaks prior to the service.

My truck wasn't shifting terrible, but I did have the 2-1 bump periodically. Since the fluid change, it feels smoother, and the 'bump' happens alot less.

I plan on doing a drain and refill in about 2k more miles, just to get more of the old fluid out.

Maybe the previous owner was drag racing it?

Just kidding, those are good pictures, I'll take it into advisement. I definitely would not change until around a hundred thousand though, unless it was acting up.

 

[EdGs]

Maybe the previous owner was drag racing it?

Just kidding, those are good pictures, I'll take it into advisement. I definitely would not change until around a hundred thousand though, unless it was acting up.

I really don't know. I do believe it may have been a rental, but not sure.

Like I said, it feels smoother to me, so I believe that I did it good by doing the service.

I have no clue why the unit was ~ 3/4 qt. low.

ZF recommends a service at 80 - 120 km I believe. Of course, Chrysler says sealed for life. I guess most people trade their vehicles off before 100,000 miles.

 

[pacofortacos]

To the eye, that is a drastic change in that fluid.

Does the drain plug come out with the pan on and exhaust in place?

If so, I wonder if it would be worth while for me to just a couple of fluid changes - not as good as a filter/fluid change but better than nothing.
Or just do nothing and let Mopar service contract eat it - ugh that is so hard to do when you are used to good maintenance schedules lol.

 

[EdGs]

The filter is part of the OE pan, about $170 @RockAuto. OE pan comes with gasket, pan bolts, and a new fill plug.

Quite a few members here use aftermarket pans with replaceable filters and compatible fluids with apparently good results. I chose OE for pan and fluid (about $330 shipped for pan and 7 qts. Mopar 8+9 speed atf).

The drain plug didn't come all the way out. At least, I did not turn it all the way out.

I had a 10mm hex key that I cut the short side down on. When you loosen the drain plug, it feels clicky as you loosen it.

Once I loosened the plug, fluid started running out. The drain is right over the exhaust pipe, and about a 3 inch wide section got wet. I just let it drain and tightened the plug just tight enough to close it. I think the torque spec. is ~ 6 ft-lbs. - very low.

I had some oil-dri sheets underneath my drain pain to catch the small drips off the valve body after the pan is removed. But, there really wasn't much excess drippage. Some brakleen on a rag cleaned the fluid from the exhaust pipe after the replacement pan was in place.

I am planning on buying a few more quarts of fluid and doing just a drain and fill to get a bit more fresh fluid in since the trans holds about 9 qts. and I got 5-1/4 put in on the first go-round.

 

[EdGs]

To the eye, that is a drastic change in that fluid.

Yeah, it looked a bit dark.

That said, I have seen a couple posts where the darkening is normal for the ZF fluid. I did not have an analysis done.

But at least I have new fluid in and I know how I drive and what I put my truck through, so we will see.

When I did the 2nd level check after taking her out and getting her full hot, and cooling off, the mix of old fluid and new was still fairly dark. But at least I know there's 5-1/4 qts. of fresh juice in there.

As far as how clogged the original filter was, I dont know. Here's my thread from my fluid change:

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/my-8hp70-fluid-change.171643/

 

[pacofortacos]

Thank you, I have often looked at that plug and wondered how easily it was loosened or removed.

My dilemma is the Mopar lifetime warranty, so I don't dare change to an aftermarket pan and even doing a trans service with the Mopar parts is questionable. However, just a few fluid changes should be undetectable.

I didn't get the service contract to ignore maint. and just destroy stuff, I bought it as a bit of protection since I will keep the truck for a long time, a lot of stuff is stupid expensive, I am not getting any younger, and I just don't enjoy doing certain repairs any more. haha
I tend to only use the truck either towing long distances at high speed or usually fairly loaded if not towing. So it does get used under some stress conditions.

And I don't want to jeopardize that coverage because we know if they can deny a claim most insurance companies don't hesitate to do so.

 

[RLJ10X]

Hey FCA, We know your transmission gets really hot, has lots of moving parts. Fluids, regardless of how high Tec you claim, have a finite life span. A new truck is a HUGE investment for us. For crying out loud, can you redesign that pan/filter set-up so people can properly maintain their equipment without it costing them so much money, and having to learn a bunch of magic tricks? News Flash: We own/drive our vehicles beyond 60,000 miles.

While you're at it; Stop welding the carrier on the front end of these trucks. What do a few bolts cost, $5, maybe? Leave off the shutters (really, shutters on a truck?!) and we'llall be happier.

Stupid **** drives me crazy. Ok, I'll shut up now.

 

[Nick14]

I would have to agree with you paco. I have been burned by warranties twice. I bought a new bike in 1980, starter went out in 3 months, 'electrical not covered'. My x bought a new Firebird in 1984, V8/5sp., clutch went out 6 months. 'clutch assy. not covered'. And NO, it wasn't me, I was not authorized nor did I have permission to even start that car. The dilemma is what manufacture do you follow. It looks like you have the Mopar lifetime, Mopar states lifetime fluid. I would get a thick magnifying glass and read the disclosures. I don't purchase these types of warranties so I following ZF's recommendations. Nick

 

[pacofortacos]

Mopar is usually pretty good about covering things.
I think my big hangup is that I don't see a severe duty service schedule in my owner manual.
That and calling them was useless lol.

 

[tap4154]

Has anyone sent their old transmission fluid in for analysis? Would be interesting to see how that dark fluid would come out.

 

[MRFREEZE57]

The filter is part of the OE pan, about $170 @RockAuto. OE pan comes with gasket, pan bolts, and a new fill plug.

Quite a few members here use aftermarket pans with replaceable filters and compatible fluids with apparently good results. I chose OE for pan and fluid (about $330 shipped for pan and 7 qts. Mopar 8+9 speed atf).

The drain plug didn't come all the way out. At least, I did not turn it all the way out.

I had a 10mm hex key that I cut the short side down on. When you loosen the drain plug, it feels clicky as you loosen it.

Once I loosened the plug, fluid started running out. The drain is right over the exhaust pipe, and about a 3 inch wide section got wet. I just let it drain and tightened the plug just tight enough to close it. I think the torque spec. is ~ 6 ft-lbs. - very low.

I had some oil-dri sheets underneath my drain pain to catch the small drips off the valve body after the pan is removed. But, there really wasn't much excess drippage. Some brakleen on a rag cleaned the fluid from the exhaust pipe after the replacement pan was in place.

I am planning on buying a few more quarts of fluid and doing just a drain and fill to get a bit more fresh fluid in since the trans holds about 9 qts. and I got 5-1/4 put in on the first go-round.

I replaced the oem pan with the PPE, the drain plug on the PPE pan is easily accessible, not blocked by the exhaust cross over. have done 2 drain and fills so far, plan on doing a final drain and fill soon to get most of the old fluid out.

 

[Wild one]

Hey FCA, We know your transmission gets really hot, has lots of moving parts. Fluids, regardless of how high Tec you claim, have a finite life span. A new truck is a HUGE investment for us. For crying out loud, can you redesign that pan/filter set-up so people can properly maintain their equipment without it costing them so much money, and having to learn a bunch of magic tricks? News Flash: We own/drive our vehicles beyond 60,000 miles.

While you're at it; Stop welding the carrier on the front end of these trucks. What do a few bolts cost, $5, maybe? Leave off the shutters (really, shutters on a truck?!) and we'llall be happier.

Stupid **** drives me crazy. Ok, I'll shut up now.

The issue isn't FCA so much,it's the jobbers they're contracting out the trannies/diffs etc to,although i'm sure if FCA told ZF they wanted a bolt-in ring gear in the front ZF diff,ZF would accomodate their request,same with the 8 speeds integrated tranny pan/filter,FCA could request it as a servicable filter set-up.Alot of it has to do with FCA/Stellentis grinding their jobbers for the cheapest cost on jobber supplied parts

 

[EdGs]

Thank you, I have often looked at that plug and wondered how easily it was loosened or removed.

My dilemma is the Mopar lifetime warranty, so I don't dare change to an aftermarket pan and even doing a trans service with the Mopar parts is questionable. However, just a few fluid changes should be undetectable.

I didn't get the service contract to ignore maint. and just destroy stuff, I bought it as a bit of protection since I will keep the truck for a long time, a lot of stuff is stupid expensive, I am not getting any younger, and I just don't enjoy doing certain repairs any more. haha
I tend to only use the truck either towing long distances at high speed or usually fairly loaded if not towing. So it does get used under some stress conditions.

And I don't want to jeopardize that coverage because we know if they can deny a claim most insurance companies don't hesitate to do so.

I actually was going to have a local dealer do the transmission service. When I called about parts, they quoted $265 for the pan, and $29/qt. for fluid with 8.7 qts. capacity.

Problem was, I called TWICE to schedule service, and never got a callback. Was prepared to spend north of $800 to have them do it, but they saved me $400 by not calling back.

It really wasn't all that bad, just time consuming. And I am sure it was done according to directions (thank you @Wild one, @MRFREEZE57, @Funkychateau and others who shared their experience on this site.

 

[EdGs]

One other nugget of wisdom: before you draIn the old fluid, make sure you can loosen the fill plug on the side of the transmission.

Hercules must have put my fill plug on, because that sucker was tight. I had to use a piece of pipe on my 8mm hex key to break it loose.

 

[tap4154]

Again, I really would like to see some analysis of the used fluid from one of these. The fluid used is not anything like the thicker pink transmission fluid we used to use, where you could check the color and smell it, and pretty much tell if it's in good shape or not. Just because the very thin green fluid turns dark may not mean anything.

Looking at the pan while I was under there changing the oil yesterday, it would be very easy just to check and see if the level is good or not, and if not top it off. If I still have my truck when it gets to a hundred thousand miles or so, I may go ahead and change it out, but frankly because I'm not towing, and usually drive like a grandma, I'm just not that worried about it. When I saw that video of the guy changing his, I think at 60,000 miles, my thought was he's just throwing out good fluid and going to a lot of trouble for nothing. In fact as he showed, there wasn't even that much metal on the magnets, and the aftermarket pan he put in had less magnets.

 

[Wild one]

Again, I really would like to see some analysis of the used fluid from one of these. The fluid used is not anything like the thicker pink transmission fluid we used to use, where you could check the color and smell it, and pretty much tell if it's in good shape or not. Just because the very thin green fluid turns dark may not mean anything.

Looking at the pan while I was under there changing the oil yesterday, it would be very easy just to check and see if the level is good or not, and if not top it off. If I still have my truck when it gets to a hundred thousand miles or so, I may go ahead and change it out, but frankly because I'm not towing, and usually drive like a grandma, I'm just not that worried about it. When I saw that video of the guy changing his, I think at 60,000 miles, my thought was he's just throwing out good fluid and going to a lot of trouble for nothing. In fact as he showed, there wasn't even that much metal on the magnets, and the aftermarket pan he put in had less magnets.

The fluid will develop a burnt smell if you do cook one of the trannies.When my 8 speed went south the fluid definitely had a burnt oder to it,and i have a Chyrco tech buddy who's rebuilt 2 of the 8 speeds with the TCS kit,and he said they both had a burnt oder to them.The fluid out of mine wasn't really all that dark though,some of the pics guys have posted on here,it looks like the fluid out of their good transmissions was darker then the fluid out of my cooked tranny,that had lost 6/7/and 8th gears,and 5th was just about dead by the time it finally made it home.Tranny went south at the dragstrip,it went into full melt down mode and the truck had to be towed off the track to the pits,i let it sit in the pits for a couple hours to cool right down,then jumped in it,and decided to see how far it'd get towards home,before i had to phone a tow truck,it was a slow trip home that night,but it limped itself the 155 miles back home,but it was banging itself into 4th gear so hard on any little hill,it'd just about knock the fillings out of your teeth,lol

 

[GTyankee]

I watched a video some years back, it was made by a well known Ram owner that has since passed away.
I believe that he towed motorcycles for dealerships, putting on several miles a week.

His name was Shawn Capson, he made several videos about things he did with his Ram. He used the screen name mopar ecodiesel

Here is a video that you should watch about servicing the ZF8 transmission


Another video that he made
In it he tells why he made the change.
He added rare earth magnets

 

[GTyankee]

The biggest question that i have is;

How many years does Mopar consider to be Lifetime ?
7, 10, 15 ?