Spoon bars clunking

[DavidRam]

I read the part about example, and I felt you provided a really bad example, as the parts you called out are way undersized for this application.

What you describe would be akin to using M6 bolts in place of M12 Bolts.

Ive also had bad experience with anything other than FK or Aurora Rod Ends (heims) Everything else is not safe for suspension parts, unless you need it for a shift linkage on a Harley. I also don't think heims are the proper parts for this application either, unless its for a race car use only. They are noisy, and susceptible to contamination.

I'll post up when I have more user data on the BAMF Control Arms I built.

It was food for thought, dude. Lay off, ok. If I had time to link to all the exact parts right now, I would...
Those who know me, know my intentions.

As far as heims go, the Spohn del-sphere are equally if not more susceptible to collecting dirt. If that is a concern, then get a rubber boot for the joint. And the delrin and del-sphere joints are only slight quieter. If someone is wanting to lower a truck properly for better handling, noise and discomfort comes with the territory and heims aren't going to be the pivotal issue...
Their are a bunch of guys (including myself) running heims all over their suspension both lowered and lifted, with no issues.

 

[SKWURLZ]

It was food for thought, dude. Lay off, ok. If I had time to link to all the exact parts right now, I would...
Those who know me, know my intentions.

As far as heims go, the Spohn del-sphere are equally if not more susceptible to collecting dirt. If that is a concern, then get a rubber boot for the joint. And the delrin and del-sphere joints are only slight quieter. If someone is wanting to lower a truck properly for better handling, noise and discomfort comes with the territory and heims aren't going to be the pivotal issue...
Their are a bunch of guys (including myself) running heims all over their suspension both lowered and lifted, with no issues.

Not sure why you thought I was being Hostile. Far from it. I guess it would be an idea, but you pointed out parts that are smaller than the Spohn arms, which already fail, so if one wanted to make their own using similar parts, those costs wouldn't be correct. You had time to link those parts...

I have an issue with information going out about potential problems, and then a response for a viable solution being 1/2 correct. Your idea is sound, but those parts could lead another member or user down a rabbit hole.

I have been chasing issues from Day 1 with lowering the truck, and the Spohn units failed on me twice. I have photos posted in this and another thread, of the failure, as well as the new arms I built. I have a ton of time, and headache in this entire suspension process, and hope my journey can help others not struggle or waste money.

to be fair, I have run Heims on other projects, from lifted diesels to full offroad race vehicles, to shift linkages on Harleys. For rear suspension, anything less than 3/4 thread rod ends in my opinion is asking for trouble.

I am sure Heims would work here as well, however I went with the Currie Johnny Joints for various reasons.
1. They can be rebuilt
2. They are designed for exactly this type of application
3. Less NVH than a rod end
4. Warranty

I'll post up everything soon. I am still in testing phase. The real truth will come out on December 4th, at Magnuson / Red List Truck Wars III

 

[SKWURLZ]

SKWURLZ, any update on your new setup? I'm about at my limit with these Spohn arms.

So Far, they are working amazing. No noise, no clunking, no more sloppy downshifts or 2 to 3 clunks. It's now hooking up so well that my driveshaft went out.

The truck will start to load/squat, then it just hooks and moves. It did take a bit to set the lengths and pinion angle, but once set, everything is awesome so far. It's also more compliant and its more comfy / plush when cruising.

To be completely transparent, I do still get a very slight speed wobble, but it now doesn't appear until 124mph+, and goes away as fast as it shows up if you keep on the pedal or decel. If you stay at exactly 124 to 126mph, the wobble will stay, but barely noticeable, and others that have been in the truck with me all tell me I am nitpicking.

I now think the wobble is completely related to driveshaft and pinion angle, and not the arms position. After all these parts and adjustments etc, I am confident more adjustments will eliminate it completely. Possibly an aftermarket driveshaft will solve it.

I also did run into clearance issues with my MBRP Exhaust hitting the axle on dips, as I centered the axle by moving it rearward in the wheel well by 0.5"
I solved this by pulling the rear pipes from the muffler, and running two turn downs. Its way too loud now. Lol

Currently my axle pinion is at 4.1° up, and my trans tail shaft is at 5.1° down. Approx 1° pinion difference, which is what I found reading through countless Drag Suspension Set up threads. Maybe more adjustment to a neutral angle is needed.

Pics for views:

 

[razor1]

glad it is all working out the way you wanted it to. Any possibility of sharing the source of the parts you used and part numbers?

 

[Ak47bravo]

So Far, they are working amazing. No noise, no clunking, no more sloppy downshifts or 2 to 3 clunks. It's now hooking up so well that my driveshaft went out.



The truck will start to load/squat, then it just hooks and moves. It did take a bit to set the lengths and pinion angle, but once set, everything is awesome so far. It's also more compliant and its more comfy / plush when cruising.



To be completely transparent, I do still get a very slight speed wobble, but it now doesn't appear until 124mph+, and goes away as fast as it shows up if you keep on the pedal or decel. If you stay at exactly 124 to 126mph, the wobble will stay, but barely noticeable, and others that have been in the truck with me all tell me I am nitpicking.



I now think the wobble is completely related to driveshaft and pinion angle, and not the arms position. After all these parts and adjustments etc, I am confident more adjustments will eliminate it completely. Possibly an aftermarket driveshaft will solve it.



I also did run into clearance issues with my MBRP Exhaust hitting the axle on dips, as I centered the axle by moving it rearward in the wheel well by 0.5"

I solved this by pulling the rear pipes from the muffler, and running two turn downs. Its way too loud now. Lol



Currently my axle pinion is at 4.1° up, and my trans tail shaft is at 5.1° down. Approx 1° pinion difference, which is what I found reading through countless Drag Suspension Set up threads. Maybe more adjustment to a neutral angle is needed.

Nice man! That sounds freaking awesome and you got the pinion dialed in perfect. Glad to hear it has gone so well. Get yourself some ear plugs. [emoji1303]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SKWURLZ]

glad it is all working out the way you wanted it to. Any possibility of sharing the source of the parts you used and part numbers?

I made them. They were spendy though. I can make more, they would run $1300 a set of 4, shipped. Any color powdercoat.

 

[moregrip]

So Far, they are working amazing. No noise, no clunking, no more sloppy downshifts or 2 to 3 clunks. It's now hooking up so well that my driveshaft went out.

The truck will start to load/squat, then it just hooks and moves. It did take a bit to set the lengths and pinion angle, but once set, everything is awesome so far. It's also more compliant and its more comfy / plush when cruising.

To be completely transparent, I do still get a very slight speed wobble, but it now doesn't appear until 124mph+, and goes away as fast as it shows up if you keep on the pedal or decel. If you stay at exactly 124 to 126mph, the wobble will stay, but barely noticeable, and others that have been in the truck with me all tell me I am nitpicking.

I now think the wobble is completely related to driveshaft and pinion angle, and not the arms position. After all these parts and adjustments etc, I am confident more adjustments will eliminate it completely. Possibly an aftermarket driveshaft will solve it.

I also did run into clearance issues with my MBRP Exhaust hitting the axle on dips, as I centered the axle by moving it rearward in the wheel well by 0.5"
I solved this by pulling the rear pipes from the muffler, and running two turn downs. Its way too loud now. Lol

Currently my axle pinion is at 4.1° up, and my trans tail shaft is at 5.1° down. Approx 1° pinion difference, which is what I found reading through countless Drag Suspension Set up threads. Maybe more adjustment to a neutral angle is needed.

Pics for views:

Very nice man! Looks professional. If I ever get tired of these Spohn arms I'll be heading your way! Good to hear there's no clunking......as I thought there "might" be some with the Johnny Joint. Let us know how she's doing after you beat on her some more

 

[R/T_Fire]

Damn them arms look good.... !!!!!

On a spohn arm note, I adjusted mine again this past weekend, but didn't have time to pull them off and set a torq too them, was too busy. But what I did get done was play with some adjustments and now my clunk is gone, Kinda leads me to believe that improper adjustment is what leads to the clunk....
Now the breaking that SKWURLZ has gone through is a different subject. I still like the spohn arms over stock as they do give a stiffer ride and and launch, but they still "look" a bit on the skinny side when it comes to strength, not saying they are just look that way. but I think alot of the clunk issues we are having is coming from the adjustment which varies on alot of trucks with modified 2/4 drops.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I've adjusted mine three times now and the clunk has returned.

I'm going to shoot Spohn an email and see if they recommend rebuilding the del-sphere joints. I've heard that if you crack one of the spheres it will always clunk. I'll also see if they have a torque spec, but I don't think so...

To be fair, I'm pretty sure I have more miles on mine than most people. I'm about to roll over 30k miles on them here soon.

 

[SKWURLZ]

I've adjusted mine three times now and the clunk has returned.

I'm going to shoot Spohn an email and see if they recommend rebuilding the del-sphere joints. I've heard that if you crack one of the spheres it will always clunk. I'll also see if they have a torque spec, but I don't think so...

To be fair, I'm pretty sure I have more miles on mine than most people. I'm about to roll over 30k miles on them here soon.

I had 20K on mine when I pulled them out and returned them.
Also had 4 cups crack on me over time, but the second failure at the track was the nail in the coffin for me.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I had 20K on mine when I pulled them out and returned them.
Also had 4 cups crack on me over time, but the second failure at the track was the nail in the coffin for me.

Really, you returned them to Spohn?

I just got this email back from them:

"There isn't a torque spec, you just want them fully snug and then go to the next available half moon on the adjuster ring that allows you to lock down the set screw. If you make them too tight (long bar tight) you can crack the bushings.

They will need to be adjusted tight as the bushings wear. They're definitely not as low maintenance as the factory arms."

All of which isn't very encouraging...

 

[SKWURLZ]

Yep, returned them, they gave me a full refund, no questions asked. They are a stand up company, great customer service. I really wanted the product to work.

Again, my set failed on me at the dragstrip. I was fully prepared and expected to have to service them, replace bushing cups, etc, as they wore, but to have the lock ring POP out of the arm, and on two occasions and on different arms? Yeah, I can't accept that.

 

[razor1]

SKWURLS what size tube are you using on your custom arms? 2" .25 wall or something different?

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Yep, returned them, they gave me a full refund, no questions asked. They are a stand up company, great customer service. I really wanted the product to work.

Again, my set failed on me at the dragstrip. I was fully prepared and expected to have to service them, replace bushing cups, etc, as they wore, but to have the lock ring POP out of the arm, and on two occasions and on different arms? Yeah, I can't accept that.

Wow, that's crazy. I'll have to ask them about it...

Honestly I just don't want to have to adjust the arms every 6,000 miles. I think that's ridiculous.

 

[R/T_Fire]

Wow, that's crazy. I'll have to ask them about it...

Honestly I just don't want to have to adjust the arms every 6,000 miles. I think that's ridiculous.

Yeah, i take back what i said before.... mine are clunkung again....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The arms should be removed from the truck to adjust. You can do it one end at a time by removing one bolt, and dropping them while leaving them on, but its a PITA to hold them while you tighten them up.

Good luck. Many people don't have any problems. But adjusting all the time, and the 2nd failure made me find an alternative.

Got a question for you Skwurlz.

I've been looking into something similar to these arms that you made, but instead of using Johnny Joints I was thinking about something a little cheaper. Maybe a poly or rubber-like OEM bushing, but still an adjustable arm.

Part of the reason for this would be cost reduction, but part of it would be to provide a cheap OEM replacement arm that still had the low NVH of the OEM rubber bushing arms, but the adjustability of the aftermarket arms.

Not accounting for the ends, how much do you think you could make the tubular arms for? I've also seen rod ends with female threads, which could potentially reduce the overall cost to make the arms.

 

[SKWURLZ]

Got a question for you Skwurlz.

I've been looking into something similar to these arms that you made, but instead of using Johnny Joints I was thinking about something a little cheaper. Maybe a poly or rubber-like OEM bushing, but still an adjustable arm.

Part of the reason for this would be cost reduction, but part of it would be to provide a cheap OEM replacement arm that still had the low NVH of the OEM rubber bushing arms, but the adjustability of the aftermarket arms.

Not accounting for the ends, how much do you think you could make the tubular arms for? I've also seen rod ends with female threads, which could potentially reduce the overall cost to make the arms.

Its about $200 worth of Chromoly, and $32 each for the threaded ends.
The entire idea of going this route was to eliminate the flex of the OEM rubber bushing. Polyurethane bushings were used before Spohn went to the Delspheres, They didn't last.

You could possibly go Delrin, but the the Johnny Joints I am using are completely rebuildable as well.

After doing and spending all this time and funds, and still not being perfected, I have made the decision to back half the truck. Currently working on details. Check out Twisted Metalworkz in SoCal... The work he is doing is amazing.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Its about $200 worth of Chromoly, and $32 each for the threaded ends. [/IMG]

Dang that's fairly expensive. I probably would just do DOM steel instead of Chromoly, but eight ends at $32 each is still $256 bucks. Is that JUST the threaded insert on the end, or does that include the Johnny Joint as well?

This place has the threaded tube inserts for like $4-$8 each. They also have square inserts so you can get square tubing instead of round, which is way cheaper.

Affordable Threaded Tube Inserts: 1 1/4, 7/8, 3/4, 5/8, 1/2, 1 1/2 | Barnes 4WD

The entire idea of going this route was to eliminate the flex of the OEM rubber bushing. Polyurethane bushings were used before Spohn went to the Delspheres, They didn't last.

Right, I get that you need a full race setup for your truck since you've been breaking the Del-Spheres and what not, but I'm talking more about a mostly street driven truck. The rubber bushings do fine for the OEM trucks, I'm mostly just looking for something that would be comparable to that, but with the ability to adjust the arms.

The only thing I would probably attempt to change would be the ability of the arm ends to articulate.
The poly is so stiff that on an application where some rotation is required it binds up and doesn't allow the arm to bend that way. Same with delrin. The rubber bushings manage it just fine though because they're so soft.
I've seen some interesting designs on poly, delrin, and even rubber bushings that can rotate to some degree though. I may look into them at some point.

You could possibly go Delrin, but the the Johnny Joints I am using are completely rebuildable as well. [/IMG]

Yea, the point of this would be to mostly get away from having to rebuild or adjust the arms at all. It would be for mostly street driven trucks, not the full on race ones.

After doing and spending all this time and funds, and still not being perfected, I have made the decision to back half the truck. Currently working on details. Check out Twisted Metalworkz in SoCal... The work he is doing is amazing.

I'll be interested to see how it goes man! You should start a thread up on the build so we can all follow along.

 

[SKWURLZ]

Dang that's fairly expensive. I probably would just do DOM steel instead of Chromoly, but eight ends at $32 each is still $256 bucks. Is that JUST the threaded insert on the end, or does that include the Johnny Joint as well?

This place has the threaded tube inserts for like $4-$8 each. They also have square inserts so you can get square tubing instead of round, which is way cheaper.

Affordable Threaded Tube Inserts: 1 1/4, 7/8, 3/4, 5/8, 1/2, 1 1/2 | Barnes 4WD

The entire idea of going this route was to eliminate the flex of the OEM rubber bushing. Polyurethane bushings were used before Spohn went to the Delspheres, They didn't last.
Right, I get that you need a full race setup for your truck since you've been breaking the Del-Spheres and what not, but I'm talking more about a mostly street driven truck. The rubber bushings do fine for the OEM trucks, I'm mostly just looking for something that would be comparable to that, but with the ability to adjust the arms.
The only thing I would probably attempt to change would be the ability of the arm ends to articulate.
The poly is so stiff that on an application where some rotation is required it binds up and doesn't allow the arm to bend that way. Same with delrin. The rubber bushings manage it just fine though because they're so soft.
I've seen some interesting designs on poly, delrin, and even rubber bushings that can rotate to some degree though. I may look into them at some point.
Yea, the point of this would be to mostly get away from having to rebuild or adjust the arms at all. It would be for mostly street driven trucks, not the full on race ones.
I'll be interested to see how it goes man! You should start a thread up on the build so we can all follow along.

2" Female Chromoly 1" Forged threaded rod ends were $32 each, and the joints were $56 each from Currie Enterprises when I bought them.

If you plan on ever driving over 110 mph, nothing is going to completely eliminate the wobble with the lowering kits. My main focus has been drag racing, but I'd like to start autocrossing/time attacks in the future.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

2" Female Chromoly 1" Forged threaded rod ends were $32 each, and the joints were $56 each from Currie Enterprises when I bought them.

If you plan on ever driving over 110 mph, nothing is going to completely eliminate the wobble with the lowering kits. My main focus has been drag racing, but I'd like to start autocrossing/time attacks in the future.

Yea, so you got the absolute top of the line parts there. I would think a more budget arm could be built with more street friendly manners, though with reduced performance.