Towing a fifth wheel - confused

[GsRAM]

We are already at 3.73. Thanks for the response on the tire.

Sure thing, no problem. If that's the case then even more so on the lighter trailer.

I want to say my stock tires are 33" tall when I measured, but it's been awhile, someone please correct me if that's not right. So a 35" tire is going to reduce your tow rating a bit.

If i remember correctly, our trucks with the 3.73s has s tow rating of 13,600 lbs with the stock tire. The 4.10s has 15,600. So with your 35" tires I'd guess yours is probably reduced to 12,000 if not less.

You may find (after actually towing with your truck, whatever trailer you end up with,) you want to go back to the stock tire size or maybe invest in a gear change (expensive though) but with your 35" tires I'd change to a 4.88 gear (both front and rear differentials if you have 4x4) which would improve your towing performance with those taller tires.

I dont know how often you drive your truck or run it on the highway? The engine will run at a higher rpm on the highway with the 4.88s so that may not be desirable to you. Its give and take really, until you find the balance that works for you.

My truck pulls my 6k tt very well, but I'm on the stock tires yet and my trailer weighs at least 4,000 lbs less than the lightest one your looking at. That's a lot. I'm confident I could go another 2,000 in loaded trailer weight without any problem, but north of 10k. I would want the Cummins diesel under my hood.

I would not personally want to pull 10,000 lbs behind me, with my stock tires without a gear change, let alone with a 35" tire on my truck. I'm sure some would do it without batting an eye and that's their prerogative.

A 10,000 lb trailer is a beast no matter how you look at it. 5th wheels are typically taller than travel trailers so you'll have more wind resistance to deal with than I do also. It will do the work for you, but your going to be working it hard, understand that. Be very diligent with your fluid changes, do them more frequently.

Just my .02. Good luck.

 

[15Ram64]

Sure thing, no problem. If that's the case then even more so on the lighter trailer.

I want to say my stock tires are 33" tall when I measured, but it's been awhile, someone please correct me if that's not right. So a 35" tire is going to reduce your tow rating a bit.

If i remember correctly, our trucks with the 3.73s has s tow rating of 13,600 lbs with the stock tire. The 4.10s has 15,600. So with your 35" tires I'd guess yours is probably reduced to 12,000 if not less.

You may find (after actually towing with your truck, whatever trailer you end up with,) you want to go back to the stock tire size or maybe invest in a gear change (expensive though) but with your 35" tires I'd change to a 4.88 gear (both front and rear differentials if you have 4x4) which would improve your towing performance with those taller tires.

I dont know how often you drive your truck or run it on the highway? The engine will run at a higher rpm on the highway with the 4.88s so that may not be desirable to you. Its give and take really, until you find the balance that works for you.

My truck pulls my 6k tt very well, but I'm on the stock tires yet and my trailer weighs at least 4,000 lbs less than the lightest one your looking at. That's a lot. I'm confident I could go another 2,000 in loaded trailer weight without any problem, but north of 10k. I would want the Cummins diesel under my hood.

I would not personally want to pull 10,000 lbs behind me, with my stock tires without a gear change, let alone with a 35" tire on my truck. I'm sure some would do it without batting an eye and that's their prerogative.

A 10,000 lb trailer is a beast no matter how you look at it. 5th wheels are typically taller than travel trailers so you'll have more wind resistance to deal with than I do also. It will do the work for you, but your going to be working it hard, understand that. Be very diligent with your fluid changes, do them more frequently.

Just my .02. Good luck.

You have my head spinning lol. Now I'm second guessing a half-ton fifth wheel.

 

[NewBlackDak]

You have my head spinning lol. Now I'm second guessing a half-ton fifth wheel.

One other wrinkle…
These new trucks are tall, it’s hard to find a fifth wheel that tows level already. Bigger than stock tires only makes it worse.

I’m contemplating some different things with mine.
Option 1: Kelderman air suspension with a reverse level. It brings the rear of the truck down to level it out instead of lifting the front like most levels do. Gives the ability to stil ride at stock height if you want

Option 2: Have a taller subframe welded up to lift the trailer. The problem here is that it’ll put me over 13’6” at the bedroom air conditioner. That means buying a low profile A/C to get rid of some height.

Option 3: Custom shorter springs with a higher load capacity.

Options 1&2 cost about the same. Option 3 is the cheapest, but I’m not sure I can get my head around permanently lowering my 4x4 2500.

It’s a long winded way of saying your best possible towing experience will be on stock sized tires.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GsRAM]

You have my head spinning lol. Now I'm second guessing a half-ton fifth wheel.

It can be done, your truck can do it. I'm giving you some real world experience to base your decision on. I've seen lots of F150s pulling 5th wheels at my local state park. It sure does not look safe to me but they do it.

Typically oversized tires and lifted trucks do not perform as well as stock height/ stock tire sized trucks, in towing applications, all else being equal without some modifications. Good luck.

 

[dhay13]

The 35's won't 'reduce' your tow rating per-se, it just won't pull as strong. My boat/trailer combo with a full tank of fuel in the boat is about 9500 and my truck tows fine with 4.10's and stock tires

 

[2018 Hemi]

I have the same truck except a 2018. I tow a 36’ fifth wheel loaded about 12,000 lbs no problem. The only issue I have is getting into some gas stations.

 

[15Ram64]

I have the same truck except a 2018. I tow a 36’ fifth wheel loaded about 12,000 lbs no problem. The only issue I have is getting into some gas stations.

Yeah we don't want to go that big. That sounds fun to maneuver.

 

[Duane Smith]

Go here and put in your VIN number it will tell you all you need on towing and cargo capacity
https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

 

[15Ram64]

Go here and put in your VIN number it will tell you all you need on towing and cargo capacity
https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html

Yes I did that last week. My real concern has been the pin weight/payload.

 

[balok1701]

Have you looked at the Grand Design Reflection 150 Series? The second 5th wheel I mentioned in my OP is a 150 Series.

I have a smaller Grand Design and love it.

 

[bigcitymike]

Yes I did that last week. My real concern has been the pin weight/payload.
View attachment 220914

Which is why I went with a 3500 6.7L. The cost was negligible between the 2500 and 3500 with the 6.7L. The pin ratings on the 3/4's surprised me with how low they were rated.



I mean the 2020 F150s with the V8 have a payload as high as 3,270 lbs. There's no way I'd run 5er in one, but still that's really close to the 3/4's numbers.

 

[68PowerWagon]

You may have already made your decision but I wanted to add my experience. I am pulling a 5th wheel that weighs about 13,250 when fully loaded. My truck is similar to yours... 16' 2500 with the 6.4L. It had the 3.73's but I replaced them with 4.56's last winter & that really helped it pull down the road. Your 3.73's will do it. I was in some smaller mountains in WV before the gear change & it did ok. I also added air bags but this is also something that is not a have to. I think you could go with either one but I wouldn't go much bigger at all. A lot of truck & trailer driving experience goes a long way too. I grew up on a farm & pulled many different things, plus drove semi for several years so driving my 2500 close to max is not as difficult as it is for some. NEVER get in a big hurry hitching up or driving down the road! If you do, things can get ugly very fast!

 

[HDGoose]

One other wrinkle…
These new trucks are tall, it’s hard to find a fifth wheel that tows level already. Bigger than stock tires only makes it worse.

I’m contemplating some different things with mine.
Option 1: Kelderman air suspension with a reverse level. It brings the rear of the truck down to level it out instead of lifting the front like most levels do. Gives the ability to stil ride at stock height if you want

Option 2: Have a taller subframe welded up to lift the trailer. The problem here is that it’ll put me over 13’6” at the bedroom air conditioner. That means buying a low profile A/C to get rid of some height.

Option 3: Custom shorter springs with a higher load capacity.

Options 1&2 cost about the same. Option 3 is the cheapest, but I’m not sure I can get my head around permanently lowering my 4x4 2500.

It’s a long winded way of saying your best possible towing experience will be on stock sized tires.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not all trucks have the too tall issue. This is my 2020 RAM 3500 Tradesman with my 2008 WolfPack toyhauler. Another issue is that folks put on larger tires without looking at the total ramifications.

 

[HDGoose]

Which is why I went with a 3500 6.7L. The cost was negligible between the 2500 and 3500 with the 6.7L. The pin ratings on the 3/4's surprised me with how low they were rated.

View attachment 221043

I mean the 2020 F150s with the V8 have a payload as high as 3,270 lbs. There's no way I'd run 5er in one, but still that's really close to the 3/4's numbers.

As a comparison, My 2020 RAM 3500 Tradesman HO Aisin CC LB 4x4 dually has a payload of 5474. That's on my door sticker.

From the Ford website:
2020 Ford F-150 Pickup truck

Description
Towing capacity: 5,000 to 8,000 lbs
Payload: 1,142 to 2,309 lbs

 

[BadHemi2014]

...ramifications...

No pun intended right

 

[GsRAM]

As a comparison, My 2020 RAM 3500 Tradesman HO Aisin CC LB 4x4 dually has a payload of 5474. That's on my door sticker.

From the Ford website:
2020 Ford F-150 Pickup truck

Description
Towing capacity: 5,000 to 8,000 lbs
Payload: 1,142 to 2,309 lbs

Thanks for posting that. I was not aware of any F150s with over 3,000 of payload capacity, but maybe something changed. 2300, yes when properly equipped. I believe their tow ratings are higher though, 10k lbs? I don't remember.

 

[NewBlackDak]

Not all trucks have the too tall issue. This is my 2020 RAM 3500 Tradesman with my 2008 WolfPack toyhauler. Another issue is that folks put on larger tires without looking at the total ramifications. View attachment 221110

It seems to be a problem mainly with the 4x4 2500s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mark J Denniston]

Getting in on this late but thought I would share some numbers for you if it helps. We have a 2016 Ram 2500 Bighorn, 6.4, 4x4 crewcab with the 3.73 gearing. We pull a 2017 Rockwood 8289WS fifth wheel, 32 feet long with three slides. We make a trip every winter to Key West Florida from Iowa to get out of the cold and see our son and his family. This year we hit the cat scales when we left home.
Truck alone: steer axle 4300, drive axle 3600 with a gross weight of 7900.
Truck & fifth wheel: Steer axle 4140, drive axle 5340, trailer axle 8280 with a gross weight of 17,760
Coming from a Ford diesel prior to buying this Ram last year I have to say I am very impressed with the gasser.
Not sure this will help with your decision but I have found that scale numbers really make the decision much easier

 

[15Ram64]

I know you guys have been on the edge of your seat waiting for an update so I'll tell you we're almost 100% positive we're going with the lighter one (GD 278BH). We looked at one in person and although it is somewhat small inside, it's enough for the 3 of us and our small dog. The only thing I'm worried about now is the CC of the trailer. Since we're new to camping, I have ZERO idea on what to expect as far as weight of all of our stuff. 600 lbs? 800 lbs? 1000+ lbs? The CC on the unit we looked at was 1767 lbs. So this is why I say we're almost 100% sure.

 

[392DevilDog]

It does nit take kong at all to add stuff to the camper.

Good luck. Sounds like you are making a good choice and am anxious to hear the final result.