What's better? 6.4L or the Cummins Diesel

[corneileous]

Exactly - that was the Ford marketing scam - whizmotors don't get great mileage when you load 'em (pulling trailers), only when deadheading. But a lot of guys deadhead a lot, so they're ok with it.

Well ya know, EcoBoost isn’t one word.... it’s either eco, or boost; they’re ain’t no at the same time. Lol.


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[GsRAM]

Keep in mind the 6.4 is moving a truck 2000 pounds heavier than the 5.7

This exactly! You beat me to it. .

Comparing a 1500 to a 2500 is comparing an apple to an orange. HD trucks, Cummins or Hemi powered whichever flavor you own is a real truck. All of the suspension and steering components are massive compared to a 1500, heck even compared to GMs 2500 for that matter.

Before I bought my ram I crawled all around under all of the trucks and rams suspension and steering components were the biggest/heaviest. Fords was heavy too, but not like ram. GMs still used IFS, junk on an 2500 HD truck in my opinion.

To me, personally, my 2500/6 speed/ 3.73 geared beast is a whole lot faster and quicker than that 7,000 brick has any right to be. I am sure the new 8 speed trucks even more so. The fact that the 2500 "didn't feel more powerful" upfront is really impressive in and of itself. 1500s are 70s full size sedans with beds on them in terms of size of suspension and steering components. 2500 on up is a whole nother league.

Nothing at all wrong with a 1500, I've had many and they have their place, but I love my Ram 2500HD. Best truck I've ever owned.

 

[jejb]

We have agreed the Cummins costs about 9k more new.

Guess I am not smoking crack when I say the Hemi is the better value.


View attachment 233111


I can show more. But I think this will be enough. Oh wait. Now we will say the Cummins is cheaper. It goes on and on my friend. Good times

Direct links please. I'm guessing that lower one is actually a CTD but they just published the wrong photo since it's obviously some old stock photo. And please do show more.

Are you really trying to imply that with all else being equal, a 6.4 2500 is going to sell for the same price as a Cummins 2500?

 

[392DevilDog]

Direct links please. I'm guessing that lower one is actually a CTD but they just published the wrong photo since it's obviously some old stock photo. And please do show more.

Are you really trying to imply that with all else being equal, a 6.4 2500 is going to sell for the same price as a Cummins 2500?

I was just testing to see if you are actually paying attention and listening.

Anyone with a sharp eye can see that the Hemi is a 4th Gen. That big crosshair grille gives it away. Yes. It is a Cummins also. They attached the wrong trucks photo to the description.

Just showing that you can use the internet to validate anything these days.

8 to 11k more new and 8 to 11k more used. You can find deals on both. That skew the numbers

But local inventories to me show the Cummins selling at a better deal than the HEMI.

So the gap locally...it is 4 to 6k used. So the Cummins isnt selling at some much higher price.

I am done now.

Cummins Rules. HEMI is more practical in a 2500 truck.

 

[Narg]

Here's one small (very small IMHO) consideration. If you want to truck to last 500K miles, get the Hemi. If you want it to last 1 million miles, Cummins. I'd be fine with 500K myself. But I've seen a few Cummins, Power Strokes and Duramaxes with a million miles or close to that.

 

[corneileous]

Comparing a 1500 to a 2500 is comparing an apple to an orange. HD trucks, Cummins or Hemi powered whichever flavor you own is a real truck. All of the suspension and steering components are massive compared to a 1500, heck even compared to GMs 2500 for that matter.

Before I bought my ram I crawled all around under all of the trucks and rams suspension and steering components were the biggest/heaviest. Fords was heavy too, but not like ram. GMs still used IFS, junk on an 2500 HD truck in my opinion.

To me, personally, my 2500/6 speed/ 3.73 geared beast is a whole lot faster and quicker than that 7,000 brick has any right to be. I am sure the new 8 speed trucks even more so. The fact that the 2500 "didn't feel more powerful" upfront is really impressive in and of itself. 1500s are 70s full size sedans with beds on them in terms of size of suspension and steering components. 2500 on up is a whole nother league.

Nothing at all wrong with a 1500, I've had many and they have their place, but I love my Ram 2500HD. Best truck I've ever owned.

Yeah, and you just described why the HD trucks are what they are and why they’re built the way they are because the 1500’s and the HD’s both serve a specific purpose. That’s why it cracks me up whenever people ***** about how for over the last 10 years, what half-tons have evolved to because you’re right, modern-day half-tons are pretty much just nothing more than just large SUV’s with truck beds. That’s what they were intended to be, was for people like me who want a truck, but don’t want no heavy-duty, rough-riding, big ole behemoth tank to drive around as a daily driver.

But I said what I said about the “didn’t feel more powerful” remark because yes, I know the shortbed, crew cab 4x4 2500 is an a lot more bigger and heavier truck than my even shorter short bed CC 4x4 1500 but still, they coulda spread those power numbers between my 5.7 and your 6.4 just a little bit further apart. And until the day ever comes when I test drive an 8-speed 2500, that’s when I’ll know if there’s a difference in sluggishness between that one, and the one I drove that had the 6-speed.

But it’s funny how you mention GM still insisting on using an IFS setup on their HD’s...lol. They may be some of the strongest IFS’s out there for what they are but still, IFS belongs on the 1500’s; not the truck’s that are built to work.


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[392DevilDog]

The 5.7l Hemi has many different ratings.

The 6.4l BGE at 410 and 429 replaced the 5.7l HD that was 383 and 400.

The charger 5.7l is 370 and 395.

The RAM 1500 fets tuned to 395 and 410.

Then we go one further. The 6.4l BGE in a chassis cab is only rated at 370 and 410.

The redline is lower and the peak horsepower comes at 4600 RPM instead of the 5600 RPM the 6.4l in 2500 and 3500 hits for its 410.

There is a huge difference in the duty cycle of a HeavyDuty truck and a 1500.

Just like the jeep got the 6.4l SRT. Everyone says put it in the RAM. WELL, the Jeep only has a 3500lb tow rating. RAM would be terrible if they dropped their tow rating to offer that truck.

I think you will see a 2nd engine option cone along for the TRX and the street version that is sure to come. But it will not be available in the Regular 1500.

The 6.4l BGE has room to grow. But, when the 2019 HD hit the 6.4l was still king. Now Ford and GM upped their numbers. RAM will too.

I fully expect a 500 horse and 600 torque Big Block Hemi coming soon. But current events may shelve it all.

 

[corneileous]

The 5.7l Hemi has many different ratings.

The 6.4l BGE at 410 and 429 replaced the 5.7l HD that was 383 and 400.

The charger 5.7l is 370 and 395.

The RAM 1500 fets tuned to 395 and 410.

Then we go one further. The 6.4l BGE in a chassis cab is only rated at 370 and 410.

The redline is lower and the peak horsepower comes at 4600 RPM instead of the 5600 RPM the 6.4l in 2500 and 3500 hits for its 410.

There is a huge difference in the duty cycle of a HeavyDuty truck and a 1500.

Just like the jeep got the 6.4l SRT. Everyone says put it in the RAM. WELL, the Jeep only has a 3500lb tow rating. RAM would be terrible if they dropped their tow rating to offer that truck.

I think you will see a 2nd engine option cone along for the TRX and the street version that is sure to come. But it will not be available in the Regular 1500.

The 6.4l BGE has room to grow. But, when the 2019 HD hit the 6.4l was still king. Now Ford and GM upped their numbers. RAM will too.

I fully expect a 500 horse and 600 torque Big Block Hemi coming soon. But current events may shelve it all.

It’s just like how when Dodge came out with the SRT-10 Ram pickup; a lot of people talked down on that truck because it’s trailer-towing and payload capacity was so much lower than the Lightning; it’s like well, no ****, neither trucks were really built to be used as typical half-tons, they were built to go fast really quick, and that was it. lol.

Between 04 and 06, who really bought a $55,000 Viper truck to haul hay, haul building supplies/landscaping supplies or whatever, and pull heavy trailers with??...lol. That’s not what they were meant for; they were meant to be short-bed, short-cab trucks even though they did make a quad-cab version that I still think was more of a joke. Lol.


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[jejb]

I was just testing to see if you are actually paying attention and listening.

Anyone with a sharp eye can see that the Hemi is a 4th Gen. That big crosshair grille gives it away. Yes. It is a Cummins also. They attached the wrong trucks photo to the description.

Just showing that you can use the internet to validate anything these days.

So you purposely posted misleading information to see you'd get caught doing it? And what exactly did you "validate" there?

8 to 11k more new and 8 to 11k more used. You can find deals on both. That skew the numbers

But local inventories to me show the Cummins selling at a better deal than the HEMI.

So the gap locally...it is 4 to 6k used. So the Cummins isnt selling at some much higher price.

I am done now.

Cummins Rules. HEMI is more practical in a 2500 truck.

Nobody said they'd maintain the same gap as when they are new. Of course the premium for the Cummins will also depreciate. But it will always be worth more on an otherwise equal truck. How much more depends on years/miles/shape.

 

[392DevilDog]

Go to a TRX forum. People are already surprised and angry That they can not tow a 12k 5th wheel

It has a 702 horsepower engine. The RAM IS ONLY 400. it should pull a house.

I love the internet

 

[HEMIMANN]

The 5.7l Hemi has many different ratings.

The 6.4l BGE at 410 and 429 replaced the 5.7l HD that was 383 and 400.

The charger 5.7l is 370 and 395.

The RAM 1500 fets tuned to 395 and 410.

Then we go one further. The 6.4l BGE in a chassis cab is only rated at 370 and 410.

The redline is lower and the peak horsepower comes at 4600 RPM instead of the 5600 RPM the 6.4l in 2500 and 3500 hits for its 410.

There is a huge difference in the duty cycle of a HeavyDuty truck and a 1500.

Just like the jeep got the 6.4l SRT. Everyone says put it in the RAM. WELL, the Jeep only has a 3500lb tow rating. RAM would be terrible if they dropped their tow rating to offer that truck.

I think you will see a 2nd engine option cone along for the TRX and the street version that is sure to come. But it will not be available in the Regular 1500.

The 6.4l BGE has room to grow. But, when the 2019 HD hit the 6.4l was still king. Now Ford and GM upped their numbers. RAM will too.

I fully expect a 500 horse and 600 torque Big Block Hemi coming soon. But current events may shelve it all.

With an Allison Commercial transmission, that'd be an awesome snow plow truck up here. But what does Fiat or Peugeot know about snow? Or care, for that matter?

 

[392DevilDog]

So you purposely posted misleading information to see you'd get caught doing it? And what exactly did you "validate" there?

Nobody said they'd maintain the same gap as when they are new. Of course the premium for the Cummins will also depreciate. But it will always be worth more on an otherwise equal truck. How much more depends on years/miles/shape.

Please explain to me how a truck that costs 8k more to buy new and is 8k more to buy used means anything then

Yes it will always be 8k more. Because it cost 8k more to buy.

I was proving a point. Like I mentioned I am done.

 

[corneileous]

With an Allison Commercial transmission, that'd be an awesome snow plow truck up here. But what does Fiat or Peugeot know about snow? Or care, for that matter?

Come on man, don’t regurgitate that **** about Fiat or Peugeot on that because you should know as well as I do that just because they own Chrysler, they don’t have a damn thing to do with how Ram builds/designs their trucks....lol.


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[Doug Ram]

So to simply sum up:

You want diesel if you tow on hills.
You want diesel if you want to tow long range without having to stop.
You want diesel if are going to tow more than carry heavy cargo.
You want diesel if you mainly run tons of miles on open highway
Youi want diesel if you want to spend less on fuel over 10+ years.
You want diesel if you value a quiet cabin while towing a heavy load up a hill.
You want diesel if you want a 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.
You want gas if you want to spend less on initial buy.
You want gas if you want maximum cargo capacity.
You want gas if you drive short distances especially in cities and around town.
You want gas if you want to spend less on regular maintenance.

I think that each engine has reliability issues -- different kinds of reliability problems over 100,000 miles. But it seems that there is slightly more likelihood that the diesel engine will be still running at 500,000 miles.

Is this a fair summation?

 

[corneileous]

Go to a TRX forum. People are already surprised and angry That they can not tow a 12k 5th wheel

It has a 702 horsepower engine. The RAM IS ONLY 400. it should pull a house.

I love the internet

Figures. Can’t really say that I am surprised because it’s just like with the power wagon… How many people have bought one of those damn things that’s ended up being let down when they find out that just because that truck is built off the three-quarter ton platform, that it’s not a real three-quarter ton… LOL. That truck was made to be a factory ready off-road truck and nothing more and that if you needed a truck to do three-quarter ton stuff, you don’t buy a power wagon; get an actual 2500 with the off-road package.

And since I’m on that subject, it really cracks me up when people start whining about, and have always whined about why the power wagon still doesn’t have the Cummins turbo diesel in it because even though Ford was able to build that tremmor with a winch, factory front bumper and an inner cooler for the diesel, ram still refuses to build a Cummins powered power wagon just because that engine is just not necessary for that truck based on what it was built for, even if they could figure out how to do what Ford did.

That big Cummins is what, almost 1000 pounds heavier than the 392 hemi which would reduce the power wagon‘s payload and trailer towing even more so since the 392 is more than plenty for that trucks off-roading capability, it really makes no sense to have the Cummins in that truck. And besides since I’ve already mentioned that the power wagon isn’t even an actual three-quarter ton, that even more explains why that truck will probably never have the Cummins in it but, you know, people will always complain about stuff like that. Lol.


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[dhay13]

@Doug Ram can't really agree on spending less on fuel. I'd have to do the math but around here diesel is typically about $1/gallon more than gasoline but last time I looked it was only about .60 more. Over the course of a year that might be a wash. Just checked my gas buddy app and its about .52/gallon more right now. Thats about $16/tank. I get about 415 miles on a tank in town and about 530 on the highway (not towing anything of course). Towing my 9000lb boat I would get about 288 miles/tank. Someone else will have to chime in with diesel numbers but those are mine and that is hand calculated.

 

[jejb]

So to simply sum up:

You want diesel if you tow on hills.
You want diesel if you want to tow long range without having to stop.
You want diesel if are going to tow more than carry heavy cargo.
You want diesel if you mainly run tons of miles on open highway
Youi want diesel if you want to spend less on fuel over 10+ years.
You want diesel if you value a quiet cabin while towing a heavy load up a hill.
You want diesel if you want a 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.
You want gas if you want to spend less on initial buy.
You want gas if you want maximum cargo capacity.
You want gas if you drive short distances especially in cities and around town.
You want gas if you want to spend less on regular maintenance.

I think that each engine has reliability issues -- different kinds of reliability problems over 100,000 miles. But it seems that there is slightly more likelihood that the diesel engine will be still running at 500,000 miles.

Is this a fair summation?

That's a good list. Might list not having to mess with DEF in the gasser column too.

 

[jejb]

Please explain to me how a truck that costs 8k more to buy new and is 8k more to buy used means anything then

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

I was proving a point.

What point were you trying to prove?

 

[ErnieD]

I’m in Colorado. We have a 7700 GVWR RV, a small 3up ATV trailer. We already own a 19 Ram 1500 Classic 5.7 4x4. The truck is a very powerful cool machine. Last year I took a 3500lbs pop up from Colorado to Montana to Washington and back home. Power wise is did great. AVG MPG was around11-12.

This last October I found a super clean, one owner 2007 2500 5.9 CTD 4X4 with 172k miles. Drove it from Phoenix to Denver as is. Made the trip beautifully. Unloaded my MPG was 19-20 on the way home. This truck has a 5-6 inch lift and is on 315/70R17 tires. Why did I buy a Cummins in a 2500?

I bought it because I love trucks. I also love Cummins engines. I’ve had gasser big and small block trucks. I feel gassers have all the power most of us will ever need. I didn’t but my Cummins for power. I bought it because I simply love the 5.9 liter. Now keep in mind I will be doing 90% of the maintenance in this new (to me) diesel. No rust, 48RE is fine but I’ll build it in the near future anyway.

Gas is going to struggle a bit more going up the passes here. It’s to be expected on a naturally aspirated engine. They don’t fall flat though. Honestly I am not a truck fan boy, as I am an engine fan boy lol. If I really wanted to state my case for a gasser, I’d walk into a Ford dealer today and get the 7.3L Godzilla in a F250 chassis and call it a day lol.

Instead I DAILY drive my Cummins, average 16-17 in the city, and love every minute of it. My view is when I turn my CTD on, I feel I have a power plant, not just an engine. It feels like a truck should feel like. At 176K currently my only goal with this CTD is longevity and plain old fashioned, ass kicking fun.

 

[sandawilliams]

Gas is going to struggle a bit more going up the passes here. It’s to be expected on a naturally aspirated engine. They don’t fall flat though. Honestly I am not a truck fan boy, as I am an engine fan boy lol. If I really wanted to state my case for a gasser, I’d walk into a Ford dealer today and get the 7.3L Godzilla in a F250 chassis and call it a day lol.

I just did a lot of research in ordering my new truck. Really thought I wanted the godzilla so started pricing and dealing on a Lariat vs. Laramie. My local Ford dealer is not well liked around here but thought i would give them a try. IMHO the Lariat interior seemed cheap and dated. The Laramie is far nicer. While trying to deal on the truck they came in a full 2k higher than what i bought the Laramie for. I can live with 20 HP less for 2K and a much nicer truck.