Will Ram use the Titan v8?

[ramffml]

I found this article worth a read and found a new take on this: could Ram use Nissan's v8 from the Titan even if just limited numbers? IMHO this would be a very smart move depending on the effort it takes to integrate the ECU etc, but it could help both companies as Nissan is down right now as well. And that v8 has a good reputation (other than manifolds, lol)

Mopar V8 Rumors of 2024-2025

 

[Kickboxer]

No it will not happen. Nissan has discontinued the Titan.
Emissions have been the demise of most of the V-8's.

 

[mikeru]

That article is wrong in saying that the 5.7 Hemi “requires” 89 octane gas. It’s recommended to run 89 but I’ve only ever run 87 octane in the Hemi engines I’ve owned.

I don’t think it’s just a V8 that Ram owners want, it’s specifically a Hemi V8. I don’t think I’d consider a Nissan powered Ram truck. I’ve owned Nissan vehicles and their engines have had their own issues. Even with it’s flaws I’d rather it have the Hemi, mainly because I’m familiar with it.

 

[ramffml]

I don’t think it’s just a V8 that Ram owners want, it’s specifically a Hemi V8.

Maybe, maybe not. A lot of guys like me just want a simple/reliable v8, I'm not particularly attached to the hemi.

The options in this scenario for Ram owners wouldn't be "hemi vs titan", it's "any v8 vs turbos/ev" and you may be surprised how many would take the v8. It has a good reputation on truck forums, certainly not worse than the hemi has been.

 

[clay282]

.

 

[nlambert182]

I have had multiple 5.7 Hemis and currently have a 2021 Nissan Armada. That engine is stout and I have zero complaints with it. It's the second one I've owned. I wouldn't be upset if Ram stuck it in their trucks. No MDS, etc.... It's a basic V8 and has a well proven track record and specifically why we chose the Armada. We were tired of the Ecoboosts and the MDS/AFM garbage.

The downside is that fuel mileage sucks (18 on the highway at best, about 16 in town) and our specific one requires 93 octane (Armada platinum). Sadly it costs more to fuel than my diesel but it's solid and reliable.

 

[ramffml]

I have a Pentastar that's more than enough for everyday use, so my opinion is different. I drove the straight 6 and it's a beast. I felt like it has more power than the last Hemi I drove. They overbuilt the straight 6 with a closed deck and other features. I can't see a world where they would need the Hemi back, or a V8, even in the performance arena. The straight 6 has a high output and can be spooled up on power even more, with little effort.

The world changes and evolves. If reliability is the reason to hang onto the Hemi, why? Ford has shown over all these years, if built right, the turbo 6 or V6 in their case, outperforms a V8 in all areas. Hemi's still ate cams after all these years and break manifolds. And then the rest of the truck still has the same issues as before. If you want reliable, you need to buy used pre pandemic. The money you saved on the older truck could be used to make it bulletproof.

The hurricane does have more power, that's not the question.

What Ford has actually shown, is that their is still a huge demand for their v8s, so much so that they keep spending money on improving it while offering more powerful turbos. GM has committed to their next generation v8s. Ram would be the only truck brand (well, tundra doesn't count) without one.

Truck guys are probably the last strong hold of v8s and guys like me who "demand" them, will switch brands to get what we want. The question for Ram is, how many of us are out there, and is it worth it to ignore us or placate us? Of all the options for Ram to get a v8 out the door, using something like the Titan's v8 would be the cheapest and quickest.

 

[ramffml]

I have had multiple 5.7 Hemis and currently have a 2021 Nissan Armada. That engine is stout and I have zero complaints with it. It's the second one I've owned. I wouldn't be upset if Ram stuck it in their trucks. No MDS, etc.... It's a basic V8 and has a well proven track record and specifically why we chose the Armada. We were tired of the Ecoboosts and the MDS/AFM garbage.

The simplicity of the engine is certainly a draw for me, just like the Ford 7.3/6.8. Old school.

The downside is that fuel mileage sucks (18 on the highway at best, about 16 in town) and our specific one requires 93 octane (Armada platinum). Sadly it costs more to fuel than my diesel but it's solid and reliable.

The 5.7 "requires" higher octane too, guys who put 87 in and think they're fine are just not aware of the downsides or don't care. The truck puts out less power, reduces timing, and pings far worse. I run 91 full time even in the winter when not towing.

 

[DanAR]

Most of you have been around Stellantis longer than I have but I don’t get the impression they can be expected to be inclined to support development of a new V8 engine.

With Trump expected to do a 180 degree turn around on EVs and new mileage regs we can expect the auto companies to all be thrown into a tizzy for awhile trying to figure what the hell to do now. Most likely they won’t make any sudden moves and I’m not sure any have them have the cash reserves to gear up for new power trains. A more likely path might be to just resurrect the Hemi although their tooling may all be mostly utilized with the Hurricane. And I doubt the Hurricane is going away so what would be the hierarchy of the Hemi and Hurricane. At pre-existing power levels the Hemi would be a step down from the Hurricane in performance and fuel economy. So would the Hemi become a no-cost option to the standard Hurricane? Or the Hemi a base motor (likely not to make the Hemi-obsessed too happy) and the Hurricane a step up option? The crystal ball is pretty fuzzy. I vote for no change in the foreseeable future right now.

 

[ramffml]

Most of you have been around Stellantis longer than I have but I don’t get the impression they can be expected to be inclined to support development of a new V8 engine.

With Trump expected to do a 180 degree turn around on EVs and new mileage regs we can expect the auto companies to all be thrown into a tizzy for awhile trying to figure what the hell to do now. Most likely they won’t make any sudden moves and I’m not sure any have them have the cash reserves to gear up for new power trains. A more likely path might be to just resurrect the Hemi although their tooling may all be mostly utilized with the Hurricane. And I doubt the Hurricane is going away so what would be the hierarchy of the Hemi and Hurricane. At pre-existing power levels the Hemi would be a step down from the Hurricane in performance and fuel economy. So would the Hemi become a no-cost option to the standard Hurricane? Or the Hemi a base motor (likely not to make the Hemi-obsessed too happy) and the Hurricane a step up option? The crystal ball is pretty fuzzy. I vote for no change in the foreseeable future right now.

Yes I put like a 3% chance on something like this happening while that arrogant fool is still CEO. However I do think outsourcing a v8 is the most likely option, if they do decide to put in a v8 again.

They can't resurrect the hemi, that tooling has been reworked for the hurricane. Hemi is permanently dead and buried.

The article mentions two other options, a pentastar v8 that was once in development (but would have too little displacement/power for a truck), and a hurricane v8 which would cost lots of money and be a big risk due to possible election results again in 4 years. Outsourcing an existing v8 makes the most sense, as it is cheapest for small runs like this, and quickest to get off the ground.

As for how to market the v8, that's the least of their issues. See Ford for how it can be done very successfully.

 

[turkeybird56]

Yes I put like a 3% chance on something like this happening while that arrogant fool is still CEO. However I do think outsourcing a v8 is the most likely option, if they do decide to put in a v8 again.

They can't resurrect the hemi, that tooling has been reworked for the hurricane. Hemi is permanently dead and buried.

The article mentions two other options, a pentastar v8 that was once in development (but would have too little displacement/power for a truck), and a hurricane v8 which would cost lots of money and be a big risk due to possible election results again in 4 years. Outsourcing an existing v8 makes the most sense, as it is cheapest for small runs like this, and quickest to get off the ground.

As for how to market the v8, that's the least of their issues. See Ford for how it can be done very successfully.

New brand would be: ""TRAM""

 

[ramffml]

New brand would be: ""TRAM""

... and then we could have "CRAM" for the cummins... ?

 

[runamuck]

why use someone elses v8 when the 5.7 was a great motor and there are millions of them on the road. I have had a couple and they were great and never gave me any trouble. my last one was a '19 laramie 5.7 ccsb 4x4. probably the best truck I have ever had.

 

[nlambert182]

For the reasons mentioned above.

Hemi tooling was changed over for the Hurricane. The cost to retool is exorbiantly expensive.

Plus... though the Hemi is mostly reliable, the MDS thing is still a concern. The 5.6 is the only current V8 (that I am aware of) that doesn't have all of that garbage and is reliable enough to hang a hat on.

It would make sense (to me) from a manufacturing standpoint to outsource it, as they do with Cummins.

 

[DanAR]

Just a question - if the Hurricane 6 cyl has been around for several years in other lines, wouldn’t they already have had the tooling set up and running? Or has a second line been retooled from Hemi to Hurricane?

 

[mikeru]

Just a question - if the Hurricane 6 cyl has been around for several years in other lines, wouldn’t they already have had the tooling set up and running? Or has a second line been retooled from Hemi to Hurricane?

Excellent question, Dan.

 

[nlambert182]

Just a question - if the Hurricane 6 cyl has been around for several years in other lines, wouldn’t they already have had the tooling set up and running? Or has a second line been retooled from Hemi to Hurricane?

I don't know the answer to this at all... but from my mfg background if it were me and I was at a point of either storing the tooling knowing I may never use it again, scrap it and lose the value, or modify it to keep using it on a new product I'd choose option C. You lose less in overhead costs reusing existing tooling, and it's likely far cheaper/faster to modify current tooling. I could stand up more lines faster.

 

[rzr6-4]

A more likely path might be to just resurrect the Hemi although their tooling may all be mostly utilized with the Hurricane. And I doubt the Hurricane is going away so what would be the hierarchy of the Hemi and Hurricane. At pre-existing power levels the Hemi would be a step down from the Hurricane in performance and fuel economy. So would the Hemi become a no-cost option to the standard Hurricane?

If trump goes baseball bat-to-kneecaps to the people at the epa, plus Stellantis is looking for a new CEO with how bad what's his name has done, there is the possibility for some real change.

Hurricane standard for the 1500s and if they keep the 5.7 then have the option for that as well. 2500 and up come standard with the hemi, be it the 5.7 or the 6.4. Probly unlikely, but a boy can dream.

Hemi tooling was changed over for the Hurricane. The cost to retool is exorbiantly expensive.

Engine block molds have been removed from the casting rooms, machining fixtures have been taken out of the CNCs, etc etc. While they aren't set up to run any of the hemi engines, I bet they still have all of those things stored in a warehouse somewhere. Every company I've ever worked for has stored everything for decades before throwing it away.

I'm sure some things were tossed or converted for use on the hurricane lines, but with MILLIONS of dollars in tooling, I can't imagine it all went from active production straight to the trash can. At least in the firearm world, manufactures will wait a while (years or decades) and then sell that old tooling to third party companies to make aftermarket replacements. That may not be Stellantis's plan, but it's still possible they have it.

Setting back up would be difficult, but I doubt it would be a full restart.

 

[nlambert182]

If trump goes baseball bat-to-kneecaps to the people at the epa, plus Stellantis is looking for a new CEO with how bad what's his name has done, there is the possibility for some real change.

Hurricane standard for the 1500s and if they keep the 5.7 then have the option for that as well. 2500 and up come standard with the hemi, be it the 5.7 or the 6.4. Probly unlikely, but a boy can dream.



Engine block molds have been removed from the casting rooms, machining fixtures have been taken out of the CNCs, etc etc. While they aren't set up to run any of the hemi engines, I bet they still have all of those things stored in a warehouse somewhere. Every company I've ever worked for has stored everything for decades before throwing it away.

I'm sure some things were tossed or converted for use on the hurricane lines, but with MILLIONS of dollars in tooling, I can't imagine it all went from active production straight to the trash can. At least in the firearm world, manufactures will wait a while (years or decades) and then sell that old tooling to third party companies to make aftermarket replacements. That may not be Stellantis's plan, but it's still possible they have it.

Setting back up would be difficult, but I doubt it would be a full restart.

Not sure how auto manufacturers do it, but in the aviation world (at least when it comes to the parts we manufactured) once we finished the last production run of a product and were notified that it was going to be end of life, we were instructed by the customer to evaluate and determine if we could rework the tooling for another product. If so, we gave them a quote, they paid the cost, and we modified it. If not, we were directed to destroy the tooling and dispose of it.

Molds, jigs, fixtures, templates, etc... all tossed. One of our main product lines were windshield & window frames for every commercial/gov aircraft flying. PPG makes all the glass and assembles the window assemblies. They gave us POs for 12 months and at the 11th month we were given the next year's PO. When an aircraft mfg notified them of end of life, we were given orders to complete everything on the assembly line plus some defined quantity forecast to last for 20 years. They stockpiled the frames/windows in warehouses and all tooling was destroyed.

One rarity was the DC-10. It stayed in operation way outside of their anticipated usage. We actually had to build new tooling to build another quantity of those frames. It took about a year and cost a lot more than they made back on those frames. Once we finished that run, once again we were instructed to destroy the tooling.

Warehouse space is at a premium and a lot of big companies don't want the carrying cost of storing tooling long term when that space could be utilized for a return. Unless they're keeping it under their hat, if they haven't gotten rid of the Hemi tooling in one form or another, they won't carry it for long.

 

[Kickboxer]

I have had multiple 5.7 Hemis and currently have a 2021 Nissan Armada. That engine is stout and I have zero complaints with it. It's the second one I've owned. I wouldn't be upset if Ram stuck it in their trucks. No MDS, etc.... It's a basic V8 and has a well proven track record and specifically why we chose the Armada. We were tired of the Ecoboosts and the MDS/AFM garbage.

The downside is that fuel mileage sucks (18 on the highway at best, about 16 in town) and our specific one requires 93 octane (Armada platinum). Sadly it costs more to fuel than my diesel but it's solid and reliable.

That engine will do just fine on 87 octane, so don't give us that
excuse. 91 is all most states have.