What engine oil do you use in a 5.7 Hemi (non-eTorque)?

evolizzee · Apr 1, 2023

Redline 5W30. My 5th Gen has too much on it to have a warranty, anymore. So, I run what the HEMI Ram Gurus recommend.

Wild one · Apr 1, 2023

mikeru said:
This is the claim I'm talking about, in case you forgot what you said...

It seems that you can't have an adult conversation without personally attacking people. I'm not a vindictive person, but if you attack me one more time I'll have to take action. If you want to keep this a civil discussion then I'm open for that. Consider this an unofficial warning.

A "bit of a rep" is not a "claim" as you appear to think.
I never once claimed anything,i said 5W-20 and 0W-20 have a "bit of a rep",and that's going by the amount of posts about cam/lifter failures.And 5W-20 has a worse rep then 5W-30,just by the amount of cam/lifter failures,with 5W-20 being one of the bigger common denominators.Just go through the posts here and on facebook,and you'll find more cam/lifter issues with 5W-20,then you will with 5W-30. Nobody can prove anything,as FCA isn't releasing the numbers on cam/lifter failures,especially in regards to oil viscosity,but it's fairly common knowledge that lighter oils aren't usually spec'd for engine longevity,they're spec'd for milege and emissions numbers. Just read this again,do you see FCA mentioning anything about engine longevity.But they do mention gas milege, if they thought 5W-20 was better then 5W-30 for longevity,do you think they would of missed mentioning that fact,very doubtful.And just for the record,i mentioned warrenty a couple times in my posts,and that he should stick with what's reconmended if he was worried about his warrenty. I have a question for you,why do you think they started spec'ing 0W-20,when the 5.7 was originally spec'd for 5W-30 ,and the HDs with the 5.7 were still calling for 5W-30 up till a few years ago,what would be their reason for going to a lighter oil in your opinion

BuschLatte420 · Apr 2, 2023

Wild one said:
A "bit of a rep" is not a "claim" as you appear to think.
I never once claimed anything,i said 5W-20 and 0W-20 have a "bit of a rep",and that's going by the amount of posts about cam/lifter failures.And 5W-20 has a worse rep then 5W-30,just by the amount of cam/lifter failures,with 5W-20 being one of the bigger common denominators.Just go through the posts here and on facebook,and you'll find more cam/lifter issues with 5W-20,then you will with 5W-30. Nobody can prove anything,as FCA isn't releasing the numbers on cam/lifter failures,especially in regards to oil viscosity,but it's fairly common knowledge that lighter oils aren't usually spec'd for engine longevity,they're spec'd for milege and emissions numbers. Just read this again,do you see FCA mentioning anything about engine longevity.But they do mention gas milege, if they thought 5W-20 was better then 5W-30 for longevity,do you think they would of missed mentioning that fact,very doubtful.And just for the record,i mentioned warrenty a couple times in my posts,and that he should stick with what's reconmended if he was worried about his warrenty. I have a question for you,why do you think they started spec'ing 0W-20,when the 5.7 was originally spec'd for 5W-30 ,and the HDs with the 5.7 were still calling for 5W-30 up till a few years ago,what would be their reason for going to a lighter oil in your opinion

I thought the cam and lifter failures were more of a thing years ago under the 5w-20 / 5w30 oil recommendations and that newer 2018 + engines have been behaving better? Dealer does mine so I am guessing 0w-20 water is being used, but any work is in their hands for the next 8 years / 100,000 miles. 0w-20 for improved MPG is a joke, the 15 city 21 highway MPG estimate is for a 4x2 in the small print with what I would guess is a 3.21 gear ratio. My 2022 crew cab standard bed 3.92 4x4 will NEVER see those numbers it seems like. Warmed up cruising on highway 17-18 might be the best so far. MDS seems like a joke as well. I am one who doesn’t care about mpg but just enjoying the vehicle though!

Wild one · Apr 2, 2023

BuschLatte420 said:
I thought the cam and lifter failures were more of a thing years ago under the 5w-20 / 5w30 oil recommendations and that newer 2018 + engines have been behaving better? Dealer does mine so I am guessing 0w-20 water is being used, but any work is in their hands for the next 8 years / 100,000 miles. 0w-20 for improved MPG is a joke, the 15 city 21 highway MPG estimate is for a 4x2 in the small print with what I would guess is a 3.21 gear ratio. My 2022 crew cab standard bed 3.92 4x4 will NEVER see those numbers it seems like. Warmed up cruising on highway 17-18 might be the best so far. MDS seems like a joke as well. I am one who doesn’t care about mpg but just enjoying the vehicle though!

Supposedly the later lifters are slightly better,but if you go to the car pages,the lifters are still causing issues ,and as far as the block/cam and oiling system goes a 5.7 is a 5.7 whether it's in a car or a truck.

mikeru · Apr 2, 2023

It's still just speculation as to what's causing it. No one has been able to definitively show that the lower viscosity oils are causing it. Another theory speculates that the design of the block doesn't allow sufficient oiling of the camshaft. Theories and speculation, or even "a bit of a rep" doesn't prove anything. Engines fail, it's a fact of life. Taking care of your engine by performing routine maintenance gives your engine the best chance of not having oil related issues. Whatever the reason, Ram recommends a specific oil viscosity for their engines just like every other manufacturer out there. I suspect Wild one is right with some of his reasons for why Ram went with a lower viscosity oil, but they aren't going to recommend something that they know causes engine failure.

Jerrybob · Apr 2, 2023

NEXT!

ramffml · Apr 2, 2023

What we do know though, is that 30 weight oil generally has more protection especially at higher temps. Higher MOFT, the oil film is the primary wear mitigator and once that is no longer sufficient the other additives in the oil have to take over to reduce wear.

Why not start with the highest quality oil you can find? These engines are super sensitive and have a higher than average failure rate. They're not the engine to take chances with if you want to keep it for a decade or two.

So oil strategy should depend on how long you plan to keep the truck. Just a 5 year thing? Stick with water. Do you want to keep it a good amount of time, especially outside the warranty? Then run 30w as soon as you can.

Very few of these engines are failing inside the warranty period. The better strategy is to reduce the chance of getting lifter failure as soon as possible, rather than risking damage to the engine with bad oil while under the warranty, just so you can keep the warrany when you more than likely won't ever need it in the first place.

evolizzee · Apr 2, 2023

mikeru said:
It's still just speculation as to what's causing it. No one has been able to definitively show that the lower viscosity oils are causing it. Another theory speculates that the design of the block doesn't allow sufficient oiling of the camshaft. Theories and speculation, or even "a bit of a rep" doesn't prove anything. Engines fail, it's a fact of life. Taking care of your engine by performing routine maintenance gives your engine the best chance of not having oil related issues. Whatever the reason, Ram recommends a specific oil viscosity for their engines just like every other manufacturer out there. I suspect Wild one is right with some of his reasons for why Ram went with a lower viscosity oil, but they aren't going to recommend something that they know causes engine failure.

It might be more of: Ram choosing a bearing that is inadequate/improper for the task. The internal composition of the bearing, Ram uses, doesnt hold up in the conditions it is subjected to. This makes this particular bearing fail in conditions, where more suitable bearings would not fail. Even worse…Ram suggests changing the engine oil every 10k miles. By then, most typical autoparts store oil has broken too much to provide adequate protection to an, already, inadequate bearing. This can accelerate the failure if the owner adheres to the 10k mile oil change interval. This is why the HEMI gurus recommended using a high quality oil with ZDDP additives or high quality oil and a supplemental MolyB additives. They also recommend changing the oil anywhere from 3k-5k miles depending on how hard the vehicle is driven and how modified the engine is. Tuning helps as well. Raising the idle rpms just slightly, increases oil pressure at idle, keeping fresh oil flowing to the upper end of the engine.

John Schmidt · Apr 2, 2023

I've run Redline 5w20 and/or 5w30 in my brand new 2020 5.7 since it had approximately 350 miles on it. Oddly enough, this new vehicle had a slight tick on startup anytime I left it without starting, for more than 48 hours. So I dumped the factory oil, wrestled with the apparently TORQUED on oil filter, installed a Fram XG2 filter, and filled up with the Red Line oil. I noticed almost immediately, the engine completely stopped any ticking, whether I let it sit for 2 days or 10 days. I'm at just over 10k miles now. So, bottom line, I took the approach of putting (what many people say is) THE BEST oil I can get - into my new truck, and NOT LOOKING BACK. I change it every 3,000 miles with a new fill of Red Line and another Fram XG2 filter. Knock on wood ... Today the engine runs so smooth and quiet, you'd think it was an electric vehicle!

Some folks say I could go longer with Red Line oil than 3,000 miles. That may be true, but in the big scheme of things -- compared to the cost of the truck, the oil cost is very small (I change myself) and I'd rather play it safe. For those who REALLY think I'm throwing away good oil, I'll be happy to sell you my used oil that only has 3,000 miles on it, for 1/3 the price I paid for it, plus shipping.

Thanks.
John

ramsare4real · Apr 2, 2023

evolizzee said:
So, I run what the HEMI Ram Gurus recommend.

Who are those and what engineering criteria they used for the recommendation?

chrisbh17 · Apr 2, 2023

ramsare4real said:
Who are those and what engineering criteria they used for the recommendation?

To me, the 5W-30 vs 5W-20 argument is pretty simple: in the MY2016 manual, it says "5W-20 should be used but 5W-30 is acceptable when 5W-20 is not available"

In the MY2017 manual, it says "5W-20 should be used". No longer "5W-30 is acceptable".

Did the engine itself change between MY2016 and MY2017? No. So...5W-30 should work just fine. (and that's ignoring the fact that there are 5.7 applications that get told to use 5W-30, even in the paper manual)

The rest of the "science" is choosing what oil to use and that's been an argument since the dawn of oils lol

evolizzee · Apr 2, 2023

ramsare4real said:
Who are those and what engineering criteria they used for the recommendation?

The GURUs are the ones that have spent hours of their day for the past 15 years tearing these 4th and 5th gen HEMI engines down and building them back up. Pushing them to the limits. Testing new fluids, parts, computer parameters, etc…Rebuilding wore out or modifying new engines for people, that don’t know how. The ones that I have bought my parts from and got my tuning needs taken care of, for the past 10years of owning Rams.

Im sure the CRITERIA they use is completely immersing themselves into the platform. By getting in there and busting their knuckles and cussing, trying new ideas, failing and succeeding, right along side all the other owners that are concerned with their HEMIs performance and longevity.

2020PW · Apr 2, 2023

Really, someone had to ask the question….. hasn’t this been beaten enough??

Bring out the RP fan boys…

Wild one · Apr 2, 2023

mikeru said:
I suspect Wild one is right with some of his reasons for why Ram went with a lower viscosity oil, but they aren't going to recommend something that they know causes engine failure.

There's another avenue that i think you should consider. They spec an oil that'll just make it past the warrenty period,then they keep supply and inventory low on replacement engines,so it's a 6 month or longer wait for a replacement engine,and viola they've created a customer who is now in the market for a new truck.As they can't wait for replacement parts,that don't really have a date for when they'll show up,so now they're between a rock and a hard place,and end up trading their vehicle off at a depreciated value,with a bad engine.They cover two stones at once,they keep the EPA happy and their Cafe window sticker numbers up for fuel consumption numbers,and they've created a customer who is pretty well stuck with trading their vehicle off at the same manufacture'r they purchased from,to get a semi decent return on their trade-in. Just my 02.
Only time will tell how a 5.7 lives on 0W-20,but i won't be surprised if we start seeing more engine complaints once the trucks spec'd for 0W-20 and 10,000 mile oil change intervals,start getting a few miles on them

mikeru · Apr 2, 2023

Wild one said:
There's another avenue that i think you should consider. They spec an oil that'll just make it past the warrenty period,then they keep supply and inventory low on replacement engines,so it's a 6 month or longer wait for a replacement engine,and viola they've created a customer who is now in the market for a new truck.As they can't wait for replacement parts,that don't really have a date for when they'll show up,so now they're between a rock and a hard place,and end up trading their vehicle off at a depreciated value,with a bad engine.They cover two stones at once,they keep the EPA happy and their Cafe window sticker numbers up for fuel consumption numbers,and they've created a customer who is pretty well stuck with trading their vehicle off at the same manufacture'r they purchased from,to get a semi decent return on their trade-in. Just my 02.
Only time will tell how a 5.7 lives on 0W-20,but i won't be surprised if we start seeing more engine complaints once the trucks spec'd for 0W-20 and 10,000 mile oil change intervals,start getting a few miles on them

Maybe, but how many people in that situation wouldn’t buy another Ram truck out of concern the next one might have the same problem. I know if I was in that situation I’d consider switching brands. I realize they all have their issues, but the Ram issue would be freshest in my mind. It would be a big factor in my buying decision.

Average J0e · Apr 3, 2023

Wild one said:
There's another avenue that i think you should consider. They spec an oil that'll just make it past the warrenty period,then they keep supply and inventory low on replacement engines,so it's a 6 month or longer wait for a replacement engine,and viola they've created a customer who is now in the market for a new truck.As they can't wait for replacement parts,that don't really have a date for when they'll show up,so now they're between a rock and a hard place,and end up trading their vehicle off at a depreciated value,with a bad engine.They cover two stones at once,they keep the EPA happy and their Cafe window sticker numbers up for fuel consumption numbers,and they've created a customer who is pretty well stuck with trading their vehicle off at the same manufacture'r they purchased from,to get a semi decent return on their trade-in. Just my 02.
Only time will tell how a 5.7 lives on 0W-20,but i won't be surprised if we start seeing more engine complaints once the trucks spec'd for 0W-20 and 10,000 mile oil change intervals,start getting a few miles on them

Sounds like my next oil change will be to 5W 30!

Wild one · Apr 3, 2023

mikeru said:
Maybe, but how many people in that situation wouldn’t buy another Ram truck out of concern the next one might have the same problem. I know if I was in that situation I’d consider switching brands. I realize they all have their issues, but the Ram issue would be freshest in my mind. It would be a big factor in my buying decision.

The only thing is a Ram with a sick engine isn't worth anything at GM / Ford or Toyota,so you're basically stuck back in a Ram if you want a decent trade in credit.

Average J0e · Apr 3, 2023

Wild one said:
The only thing is a Ram with a sick engine isn't worth anything at GM / Ford or Toyota,so you're basically stuck back in a Ram if you want a decent trade in credit.

Wild one · Apr 3, 2023

Average J0e said:
View attachment 517850

That was one of the better parts of that movie,lol

Average J0e · Apr 3, 2023

And to see what a POS he turned out to be now! But we know why they call it Hollyweird! I think it's the water out there in Cali that does it to them! LOL

What engine oil do you use in a 5.7 Hemi (non-eTorque)?

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