Cam failures or not. How many miles have you gone?

[ThomasD]

My 2014 5.7 failed at 156k miles. Mobil 1 synthetic and mobil 1 filters every 6000 miles, no excessive idle time, mainly highway miles. Came on without much warning. Check engine light came on car was driving normal and I hit the accelerator to merge and started flashing for cylinder 5 misfire. Took it to two shops and it was toast sold it to Carvana as is.

 

[aszumilo]

Had a 96 with almost 170,000. Trans was going out Traded it in.
2004, 202,000 miles when I totaled it. No issues at all. Original Water Pump, Alternator, Starter. Only had to replace EGR valve and coils and other routine maintenance.


Current 2011 has 140,000 miles on it and seems to be fine. Bought it with 132,000 miles on it, had to replace Water Pump 3 weeks after I got it. Other than that, just doing routine maintenance and fixing little things.

 

[DanM]

2020 exhaust manifold leak and cam shaft replacement at 60340.

 

[Gwerner74]

It seems like pretty much all the posts I've seen here about the lifter/cam issue are on the 5.7L trucks. Is this issue exclusive to the 5.7 or am I just not seeing posts about it happening to the 6.4? I'm at 127K on my 2015 2500.

 

[Wild one]

It seems like pretty much all the posts I've seen here about the lifter/cam issue are on the 5.7L trucks. Is this issue exclusive to the 5.7 or am I just not seeing posts about it happening to the 6.4? I'm at 127K on my 2015 2500.

Still happens on the 6.4's,but there's not as many 6.4's on the roads as 5.7's,and alot of the 6.4's are working as soon as they're started.You also don't see as many hellcats with failures,as they not generally daily drivers that get stuck in rush hour traffic that's just barely moving,or left idling to warm up or cool down the interior.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Still happens on the 6.4's,but there's not as many 6.4's on the roads as 5.7's,and alot of the 6.4's are working as soon as they're started.

Also a much larger percentage of them sold new are corporate/fleet owned, so owners are less likely to come online to ***** about failures.

 

[Gwerner74]

Still happens on the 6.4's,but there's not as many 6.4's on the roads as 5.7's,and alot of the 6.4's are working as soon as they're started.You also don't see as many hellcats with failures,as they not generally daily drivers that get stuck in rush hour traffic that's just barely moving,or left idling to warm up or cool down the interior.

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm trying to learn about all of this so sorry if this is a dumb question. If I understand correctly from what you said, it sounds like long times spent at idle is a significant contributing factor to the issue due to lower lubrication to the lifters? If that's correct it makes me feel a lot better about my truck. I'm one of the "hop in and drive" people and the majority of my mileage is highway.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm trying to learn about all of this so sorry if this is a dumb question. If I understand correctly from what you said, it sounds like long times spent at idle is a significant contributing factor to the issue due to lower lubrication to the lifters? If that's correct it makes me feel a lot better about my truck. I'm one of the "hop in and drive" people and the majority of my mileage is highway.

It is *a* factor, but how significant it is varies. Even with a high idle fleet, we've done well with 4500 mile OCI and decent oil. The newer style lifters seemed to be an improvement on that front (larger needle bearings, not sure if there are any other changes). We did not have the older style lifters in our fleet, but had some data from other agencies when we adopted them. With thousands of vehicles tracked, it's not as straight forward as high idle = more issues as you'd think. Or at least it wasn't, I don't have the most current data any longer.

 

[Gwerner74]

It is *a* factor, but how significant it is varies. Even with a high idle fleet, we've done well with 4500 mile OCI and decent oil. The newer style lifters seemed to be an improvement on that front (larger needle bearings, not sure if there are any other changes). We did not have the older style lifters in our fleet, but had some data from other agencies when we adopted them. With thousands of vehicles tracked, it's not as straight forward as high idle = more issues as you'd think. Or at least it wasn't, I don't have the most current data any longer.

Thanks Doc, I appreciate that. I've been reading so much lately on this seemingly inevitable failure that it's becoming hard to keep track of it all.

 

[EdGs]

On the downside (hopefully) of my cam/lifter failure, 2015 SLT 201,000 miles.

Everybody talks about the needle bearings failing, causing the redesign, but my needles were fine. It was the PIN the needles roll on that failed for me.

And, alot of people say MDS is the issue. My failure was a non-MDS lifter. #5 Intake lifter.

Also, both of my #8 (also non-MDS lifters) cam lobes were starting to wear, the lifter rollers were fine, as far as I can tell. #5 Intake cam lobe:

#8 cam lobes, wear just starting.


I think there are several factors at play. Oiling, and maybe less than adequate heat treat on the cam and lifter pins, maybe?

Any part can break at any time, fix it and go forward.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Thanks Doc, I appreciate that. I've been reading so much lately on this seemingly inevitable failure that it's becoming hard to keep track of it all.

It's a machine, so failure is inevitable but it's not as bad as the online community makes it seem. It's poor solace for the guys affected, and some are just poorly heat treated parts or something that makes that particular motor fail early.

On my personal vehicles, I run a 5k mile OCI. No issues for me, yet. Like I said, for our fleet we use a 4500 miles OCI (we tell drivers 4k miles knowing some will always run over a bit) and has had good service life compared to other alternatives still on the market.

 

[Wild one]

Thanks Doc, I appreciate that. I've been reading so much lately on this seemingly inevitable failure that it's becoming hard to keep track of it all.

You only hear about the ones that fail,you never hear about the millions of hemi's that make it well past 200,000 miles even with a crappy maintence record.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Oiling, and maybe less than adequate heat treat on the cam and lifter pins, maybe?

The poor heat treatment on early failures is a very common theory, and one I suspect has merit in many early failures. However, it's been disproven on other failures via hardness testing and wear pattern analysis. Interestingly, wear pattern analysis also indicated sufficient oiling, another common theory, but perhaps *improper* oil and additive packages. There's merit to the posts here about various oil and additive packages addressing the "tick" as well as longevity.

Another theory I've heard thrown around is improper break in procedure/insufficient assembly lubricant during assembly of the motor. I don't know enough to evaluate that claim, but it's been tossed around as another explanation for early cam 'death' as well.

This is a free example online of such testing results:

 

[Wild one]

The poor heat treatment on early failures is a very common theory, and one I suspect has merit in many early failures. However, it's been disproven on other failures via hardness testing and wear pattern analysis. Interestingly, wear pattern analysis also indicated sufficient oiling, another common theory, but perhaps *improper* oil and additive packages. There's merit to the posts here about various oil and additive packages addressing the "tick" as well as longevity.

Another theory I've heard thrown around is improper break in procedure/insufficient assembly lubricant during assembly of the motor. I don't know enough to evaluate that claim, but it's been tossed around as another explanation for early cam 'death' as well.

This is a free example online of such testing results:

View attachment 574996

Another theory is the valve springs are a touch weak and allow the lifters to bounce when they cross over the nose. I think all the theories have merit though like you said.Combine all and it's amazing the majority of hemi's make it well past 200,000 with no issues

 

[Docwagon1776]

Another theory is the valve springs are a touch weak and allow the lifters to bounce when they cross over the nose. I think all the theories have merit though like you said.Combine all and it's amazing the majority of hemi's make it well past 200,000 with no issues

That'd actually be a good data point vs idling and why there was such a weak correlation. Do you know if anyone has pulled springs and tested them on the "bad" lobes vs undamaged lobes in the same motor?

We don't have any way to measure time spent being driven hard, but it'd be a smart assumption the guys driving the hardest also have the most idle time, Traffic and Patrol.

 

[Wild one]

That'd actually be a good data point vs idling and why there was such a weak correlation. Do you know if anyone has pulled springs and tested them on the "bad" lobes vs undamaged lobes in the same motor?

We don't have any way to measure time spent being driven hard, but it'd be a smart assumption the guys driving the hardest also have the most idle time, Traffic and Patrol.

No i don't,but that would be a good test now that you bring it up. Not many shops even have a valve spring checker anymore,as they aren't as cheap as they were when we were kids

Proform - BB1000 - ANALOG VALVE SPRING TESTER, Valve Train Tools - Amazon Canada

Proform - BB1000 - ANALOG VALVE SPRING TESTER in Valve Train Tools.

www.amazon.ca

 

[Jtblackram]

120k no problems never had the motor open, only tick is the broken manifold bolt

 

[MOPAR78]

You only hear about the ones that fail,you never hear about the millions of hemi's that make it well past 200,000 miles even with a crappy maintence record.

True, I've had 2 5.7 that where still running, one at 342,000+ & the other at 363,000 miles. And guilty on both with crappy maintence records.

 

[Docwagon1776]

True, I've had 2 5.7 that where still running, one at 342,000+ & the other at 363,000 miles. And guilty on both with crappy maintence records.

You, Sir, are the Hemi Chosen One. Do you have a finger bone from Lee Iacocca in your shrine at home or what?

 

[ithurtz]

204k walmart 5 30 oil, runs great