Lifter Failure / Hot Oil / Better Cooling etc.

[Wild one]

Yeah agreed about the current one… it’s not a Setrab part.. it’s a Mocal brand that I actually got from improved.

Not saying improveds branded stuff is bad by any means… just over priced. And I’m frugalAF

We shall see where this goes.

Realistically what kind of oil temps are you seeing,and under what conditions.

 

[Black1500Ram]

227-230 on the highway going up a slight grade (not really a problem)
260 towing a ~6500lb camper @ 55mph through tougher grades.
The truck is certainly capable of pulling the camper but if I didn't keep backing off the temps just kept climbing and I'm not trying to be that guy going 40 with his hazards on

 

[Wild one]

227-230 on the highway going up a slight grade (not really a problem)
260 towing a ~6500lb camper @ 55mph through tougher grades.
The truck is certainly capable of pulling the camper but if I didn't keep backing off the temps just kept climbing and I'm not trying to be that guy going 40 with his hazards on

Just throwing this at you,but i wonder if your oil temp sensor is whacked,as you shouldn't see temps approaching 230 if you're unloaded and doing 65 mph,maybe if your cruising at 90 mph,but not at 65,unless you have 4.56 or deeper gears.
Next time you're out and the oil temps show 225+,stop and use an infared temp gun on the oil pan,and see if the sump temps match the gauge

 

[Black1500Ram]

Just throwing this at you,but i wonder if your oil temp sensor is whacked,as you shouldn't see temps approaching 230 if you're unloaded and doing 65 mph,maybe if your cruising at 90 mph,but not at 65,unless you have 4.56 or deeper gears.
Next time you're out and the oil temps show 225+,stop and use an infared temp gun on the oil pan,and see if the sump temps match the gauge

3.92's at 80mph, high elevation and grade all around bad for performance.

Will def try taking a reading from the oil pan good thought thanks!

 

[Black1500Ram]

AMSOIL Normal and Intermittant Oil Operating Temperatures
cool watch

 

[HEMIMANN]

Well I guess that depends on what’s considered ‘appropriately sized’… allowing 240° coolant / 260°+ oil temps under any circumstances is not appropriate to me, and thus my side quest lol.

I never said 240 and 260

I said today's 220 and 230 are better than 180 and whatever. I stand by that.

 

[Wild one]

I never said 240 and 260

I said today's 220 and 230 are better than 180 and whatever. I stand by that.

I like 195 to 205 better then 220+,especially when an oil is measured at 210F . It's going be tough to get a hemi's oil temps down to 180,even with a 160 t-stat,unless you're running a big oil cooler and no thermostat inline with the cooler. The hotter the oil temp,the tighter the bearing clearances are,and the hotter the valve springs run,and a hot valve spring starts to lose it's tension,and is prone to fatiguing all that much faster,contributing to cam issues

 

[HEMIMANN]

I like 195 to 205 better then 220+,especially when an oil is measured at 210F . It's going be tough to get a hemi's oil temps down to 180,even with a 160 t-stat,unless you're running a big oil cooler and no thermostat inline with the cooler. The hotter the oil temp,the tighter the bearing clearances are,and the hotter the valve springs run,and a hot valve spring starts to lose it's tension,and is prone to fatiguing all that much faster,contributing to cam issues

??? block is grey cast iron. Coefficient of thermal expansion for cast iron is 1/3 that of aluminum.
Hotter oil is lower viscosity.

Cummins engines ran 220 stats for prime power, 230 for standby power. 50,000-80,000 hour design life.

 

[Black1500Ram]

I never said 240 and 260

I said today's 220 and 230 are better than 180 and whatever. I stand by that.

I just meant my stock cooling system is allowing 240/260 when I tow

 

[ramffml]

You don't have a variable thermostat.

I know, but those are the typical temps depending on driving or stop and go etc.

And the stat controls coolant below 220F regardless of ambient. The cooling system is already sized for worst case heat.

It's not, lots of guys reporting temps in excess of 250F while towing. That's unacceptable to me.

Running engines colder than you can promotes deposits.

Well, I run the best oil I can find which apparently is extremely good with detergents and cleaning (lots of proof/talk of this on bobs), I'm not worried about this aspect in the slightest. However, hotter temps contribute to ping and that's something I definitely notice.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I know, but those are the typical temps depending on driving or stop and go etc.


It's not, lots of guys reporting temps in excess of 250F while towing. That's unacceptable to me.



Well, I run the best oil I can find which apparently is extremely good with detergents and cleaning (lots of proof/talk of this on bobs), I'm not worried about this aspect in the slightest. However, hotter temps contribute to ping and that's something I definitely notice.

That's wild - did they change the cooling system over the years? Or maybe it's bigger on the 6.4 in the heavy duty?
Well, yeah - if coolant climbs past 220F - that's no good for longevity for sure based on the charts I used to see.

The thing is, I never go past 220F - not in 90+ degrees towing. So my assumption was that was everyone's experience. My bad.

 

[ramffml]

That's wild - did they change the cooling system over the years? Or maybe it's bigger on the 6.4 in the heavy duty?
Well, yeah - if coolant climbs past 220F - that's no good for longevity for sure based on the charts I used to see.

The thing is, I never go past 220F - not in 90+ degrees towing. So my assumption was that was everyone's experience. My bad.

Coolant I can't recall off the top of my head, I rarely worry about it; the 250F + is oil temps. Many of us see those high oil temps while towing in the 5.7

I'm not as wealthy as some here or yeah I'd just spring for a 6.4 lol, it's clearly a more capable truck/engine.

Essentially the lower tstat just gives us more of a runway before hitting 250F. The coolant runs cooler, so then so does the oil. However, if I were to climb a little longer hill, then eventually my temps will still hit 250F, it'll just take longer to get there now because my starting temps are lower.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Coolant I can't recall off the top of my head, I rarely worry about it; the 250F + is oil temps. Many of us see those high oil temps while towing in the 5.7

I'm not as wealthy as some here or yeah I'd just spring for a 6.4 lol, it's clearly a more capable truck/engine.

Essentially the lower tstat just gives us more of a runway before hitting 250F. The coolant runs cooler, so then so does the oil. However, if I were to climb a little longer hill, then eventually my temps will still hit 250F, it'll just take longer to get there now because my starting temps are lower.

Damn! They got an engine oil cooler on that thing? My truck does, as far as I can tell by counting radiators.

The highest oil temp I've seen on EVIC is 228F, pulliing 7,500 trailer in 90+ degree weather.

I'm not rich either - I set up a web crawler search for a 2500 gas without beaucoup miles. It took a year to get a hit on it. Horse lady didn't like the truck after a year and 13,000 miles as "too big" for her, according to the dealer she traded at. Got a Jeep Cherokee instead, of course. So I got a full year depreciation on an almost new truck.

 

[billetgrey]

Hi. Yo

If you are sure the lifters have an issue, replacing them is the only fix. The cam lobe has either delaminated or a lifter has a roller or roller bearing failure. Pull the valve covers and look for slack in the valve train. Don't wait until you have more damage and send more metal through the engine. You will not reset the valve lash as these engines do not have an adjustable rocker setup.
I don't know why you are running "0" weight oil in a hot climate.
I replaced the lifters and oil pump with the Mellings products. Very good replacement parts. Used an OEM VVT Mopar cam, deleted the MDS system and plugged the solenoids. Added a tune and shorty headers while I was making these repairs to eliminate future exhaust bolt issues. If you want to keep the MDS system, do it because the MDS lifters/system are not the cause of the lifter failure. I lost both MDS and non MDS lifters in my engine. I pulled the oil pan and windage tray to clean the bottom end of any metal debris.
Changing cooling fans will not lower your operating engine temps until you get more airflow or set the electric fans to operate at a lower temp. My 2013 (5.7) has both electric and mechanical fan. I installed a 180 thermostat. Engine runs at 192, even when towing

Hi, You seem to really know what you're talking about. I need to change the cam and lifters in my 2014 1500. Where should I get the parts from?

Someone gave me this list:

" Throttle body gasket, intake manifold gasket set, air filter, 16 champion copper spark plugs, 2 head gaskets, 2 exhaust manifold gaskets (these are left to right specific), 2 sets of new head bolts, 2 sets of manifold bolts, 2 sets of mds lifters (u can also change the 2 sets of standard lifters while ur there or if need be; they are expensive and if in good shape then they should be fine, I didn't change the 8 non-mds lifters and they are still good after 240k) miles, camshaft (depending on mileage you may want to change the timing chain and cam phaser while it there), water pump gasket, timing cover gasket, serpentine belt, 14 quarts of oil and 2 new oil filters, 2 gallons premix orange antifreeze coolant "

Sounds like I should add a better oil pump into this list. This job is doable without removing the engine from the vehicle, correct?

 

[Black1500Ram]

Hi. Yo


Hi, You seem to really know what you're talking about. I need to change the cam and lifters in my 2014 1500. Where should I get the parts from?

Someone gave me this list:

" Throttle body gasket, intake manifold gasket set, air filter, 16 champion copper spark plugs, 2 head gaskets, 2 exhaust manifold gaskets (these are left to right specific), 2 sets of new head bolts, 2 sets of manifold bolts, 2 sets of mds lifters (u can also change the 2 sets of standard lifters while ur there or if need be; they are expensive and if in good shape then they should be fine, I didn't change the 8 non-mds lifters and they are still good after 240k) miles, camshaft (depending on mileage you may want to change the timing chain and cam phaser while it there), water pump gasket, timing cover gasket, serpentine belt, 14 quarts of oil and 2 new oil filters, 2 gallons premix orange antifreeze coolant "

Sounds like I should add a better oil pump into this list. This job is doable without removing the engine from the vehicle, correct?

My entire list of parts used is in this thread along with links to where I got them from.

I did the job engine in vehicle.

If you have 4wd you either have to drop the front diff or do the floss / ground down wrench trick to remove the oil pickup tube bolt on the oil pump.

 

[billetgrey]

Hi Guys,

Been lurking for a while and now have the dreaded lifter tick.
Thanks for everyone who has replied to my prior questions. Please anyone feel free to jump in correct any misinformation I might have, suggestions etc.

MY TRUCK
2015 Ram 1500 5.7, 8HP70, 3.92 rear. Bought at 27k currently 112k

Oil related maintenance:
5w20 PUP w/ fram xg10060 filter changed every 5k during that time.
Currently Resline 5w30 w/ RP 20-820, Purolator One Air Filter changed once a year (shout out to project farm on Youtube)

Other maintenance / upgrades:
Spark plugs changed at 100k, Amsoil in trans, tcase and diffs. 89 fuel. Suspension fully rebuilt will all Moog parts, Hellwig rear sway, Freedom Offroad Rear control arms and track bar, Billstein 5100's yada yada v6 fan in addition to mechanical.

Heaviest tow - ~6000lbs camper with dist hitch... maybe 4 times / year

So now that I have 'the tick' I'm putting together this thread for what I'm going to do to fix it and hopefully compile some other preventative fixes to reduce the chance of it happening again? Its def lifter, I've had the exhaust manifold tick; this is nothing like that.

My truck is almost paid off so I don't want to have to buy another one any time soon, and would like to get to 200/300k miles. If money allowed, I would just trade in my truck for a 3500 and call it a day but it doesn't and I don’t need a 3500.

START HERE TO SKIP INTRO
Original plan was to replace lifters with the latest 2017+ (AD part number) OEM version, still MDS, new MDS cam, pushrods, head bolts. Now I’m going to non MDS after seeing the benefits in lubrication and being able to up my idle speed and some other things through tuning.

MDS all OEM parts list in Post #128, non MDS some aftermarket parts list in post #210

I also plan on installing new oem water pump, 190° t-stat, new timing chain tensioner, hellcat oil pump (stock 50 psi spring), Royal Purple 20-820 filter, remove center AGS shutters, Nearly free AGS mod, caulk transmission heater bypass, Pacbrake Oil Filter relocation kit.

I noticed while towing a quad on a small 5x8 single axle trailer (<1200lbs) through route 87 mountains in AZ, 100° ambient, I'm getting into the 250° oil temp range with cruise set at 65. Coolant is still at 210°, trans gets up to 200° sometimes. I can’t go more than 45/50 mph over the same route with the camper without the temps creeping into the 260° range.

Anything I'm missing guys? I'm furious that I have to do this but if I'm going to tear into the engine I want to give this truck the best chance to last another 150k miles.

Thanks in advance.

James

Hi. I'm currently ordering parts. Is it compulsory to change the oil pump or is it more of a 'do it since you're there' type of thing. I think ill just skip it since it seems like its a tight squeeze with 4wd models, saves an extra bit of headache; if possible.

And we need 16 push rods, 8 intake/ 8 exhaust right?

Thank you so much for all of the knowledge

 

[Black1500Ram]

Hi. I'm currently ordering parts. Is it compulsory to change the oil pump or is it more of a 'do it since you're there' type of thing. I think ill just skip it since it seems like its a tight squeeze with 4wd models, saves an extra bit of headache; if possible.

And we need 16 push rods, 8 intake/ 8 exhaust right?

Thank you so much for all of the knowledge

What year is your ram?
If you’re <=14 you don’t have a locked pcm and you could up the idle easily.

The ground down 13mm wrench / floss trick for the pickup tube wasn’t hard at all.

As you see, I’m a “while you’re in there, buy once cry once” kinda guy. Which is why I did the pump, all the timing stuff, water pump, and performance springs. I wouldn’t wanna do this job again.

Also depending on your mileage you should probably do the timing stuff which means the pump needs to come off anyway.

Correct on the pushrods - 16; 8 & 8.

If I could do this over I would delete MDS, aftermarket billet cam, tune and raise idle, and melling high volume pump.

 

[billetgrey]

What year is your ram?
If you’re <=14 you don’t have a locked pcm and you could up the idle easily.

The ground down 13mm wrench / floss trick for the pickup tube wasn’t hard at all.

As you see, I’m a “while you’re in there, buy once cry once” kinda guy. Which is why I did the pump, all the timing stuff, water pump, and performance springs. I wouldn’t wanna do this job again.

Also depending on your mileage you should probably do the timing stuff which means the pump needs to come off anyway.

Correct on the pushrods - 16; 8 & 8.

If I could do this over I would delete MDS, aftermarket billet cam, tune and raise idle, and melling high volume pump.

2014..

Was it hard to get the timing right, my understanding is, you would have had to set the timing manually. What was the procedure if you don't mind me asking?

Did you change either of the sprockets, cam or crank?

Does the timing cover gasket also require some kind of RTV sealant?

And did you send off the cylinder head to get machined?

 

[Wild one]

2014..

Was it hard to get the timing right, my understanding is, you would have had to set the timing manually. What was the procedure if you don't mind me asking?

Did you change either of the sprockets, cam or crank?

Does the timing cover gasket also require some kind of RTV sealant?

And did you send off the cylinder head to get machined?

Read through Kurtis's thread if you haven't.

How-To: 4th gen hemi cam installation

Since cams are becoming more available for the VVT hemi engine, regardless of whose cam you choose, here is the how-to of doing the cam swap for the 4th gen trucks. This is honestly a job that can be done by anyone with basic handtools and basic mechanical skills. I did my first cam swap...

www.ramforum.com

 

[Black1500Ram]

2014..

Was it hard to get the timing right, my understanding is, you would have had to set the timing manually. What was the procedure if you don't mind me asking?

Did you change either of the sprockets, cam or crank?

Does the timing cover gasket also require some kind of RTV sealant?

And did you send off the cylinder head to get machined?

Timing isn’t hard at all; cyl 1 at TDC, timing marks at 12 and ‘5;30.’

No, changed the chain, tensioner, and guide.

Yes in the corners by the oil pan per manual

I didn’t, many do. I replaced my springs so when I had them out I used some bluing and also iso alcohol to check for sealing.

Didn’t have any leaking so figured I was ok.