Lifter Failure / Hot Oil / Better Cooling etc.

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HEMIMANN

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I still have some from 2010 in my garage., lmao? Store in mild environment if you can,. but don't worry about that one.

Yes. Don't recall what they told us @ Mobil - a long time, I guess. The whole point of synthetic oil is stability, right? Saturated hydrocarbons = minimal oxygen bonding sites = stability.
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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i am officially joining the redline rp crew lol. Hopefully I don’t have any elitefab / United parcel stuffers issues.
Looking forward to seeing if it quiets this tapping cause it’s driving me nuts.

Still planning on changing internals come 80° weather.
 

HEMIMANN

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i am officially joining the redline rp crew lol. Hopefully I don’t have any elitefab / United parcel stuffers issues.
Looking forward to seeing if it quiets this tapping cause it’s driving me nuts.

Still planning on changing internals come 80° weather.

I've found Amazon Red Line Store, Summit Racing, and Rock Auto all reliable shippers (though Rock Auto doesn't handle Red Line Oil), FWIW.

I didn't use Red Line either until I read through the member data on this site, and knowing tribology fairly well from my career, it's definitely the right move for the Hemi drama queen engine. Some people lose sight of this - they think this is a Red Line fan boy club - it is NOT that - it is a data-based solution to HEMI ENGINE design flaw only.
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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I've found Amazon Red Line Store, Summit Racing, and Rock Auto all reliable shippers (though Rock Auto doesn't handle Red Line Oil), FWIW.

I didn't use Red Line either until I read through the member data on this site, and knowing tribology fairly well from my career, it's definitely the right move for the Hemi drama queen engine. Some people lose sight of this - they think this is a Red Line fan boy club - it is NOT that - it is a data-based solution to HEMI ENGINE design flaw only.
My perception certainly evolved from skeptic / fanboy to data driven solution after talking to several of you and doing a ton of reading… synthetic oil thread here’s looking at you
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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i have some HPL 30 weight engine cleaner coming. Will be doing a couple flushes with that over the next 4k miles. Will report back after.
Doing the ags delete and trans heater bypass this week.
royal purple filters came in.
Just reporting back. The cleaner made no noticeable difference to my tapping, nor has the switch to redline 5w30 and Royal purple filter… yet… not up to 500 miles yet so I didn’t expect anything.
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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Does anyone have any recommended places to buy oem Mopar parts from?

I’ve looked into moparfactoryparts.com,
Moparpartswholesaledirect.com

Any good experiences on eBay?
eBay lifters
So minus head bolts, thermostat and ac refrigerant, but including hellcat oil pump and water pump moparfactoryparts.com (was cheaper than wholesale direct) comes to $1700 exactly after tax and shipping to AZ

3F7B2606-F7A3-4BE2-B953-76BB01915305.jpgBD45D34E-2F74-486C-A821-41A2DE3E22A5.jpg
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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Parts planned for the repair / upgrade:

Mopar:
5038785AD - Hydraulic Lifters And Yoke, Front
5038786AD - Hydraulic Lifters And Yoke, Rear
Purchased front and rear for $598

5045515AA - Intake Valve Push Rod - $37.60
5045516AA - Exhaust Valve Push Rod - $39.04
53022263AF - Engine Camshaft -
Purchased for $325
68346911AB - Water Pump -
Purchased aftermarket for $93
53022316AC - Timing Chain - $40.25
53022115AH - Timing Chain Tensioner - $17.49
4893429AA - Timing Chain Guide - $15.29
68195993AD - Hellcat Oil Pump - $134.40
6510763AA - Crankshaft Pulley Bolt - $5.53
53022307AB - Cylinder Head Gasket, Left
53022306AC - Cylinder Head Gasket, Right
Purchased felpro set for $59.50

6510280AA - Hex Head Bolt and Coned Washer, Mounting, Primary
Purchased Mahle headbolts $51.50

W0133-2042676 - Mopar Coolant Concentrated - $47.16

Other:
‎48799 - Stant 190 Thermostat - $20.69
140-1101 - ARP Exhaust Manifold Bolts - $61.44
6022 - Ramflex Exhaust Manifold Gaskets - $36.62
Flush oil change - $37
5w30- Redline Oil - $93.74
Redline Assembly Lube - $18.14
Used AFE headers - $200
Serp Tensioner - $53.63


Total to fix: $2,142.98xx :mad::eek::favorites68:
 
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Wild one

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Being in Scottsdale,there should be some smaller shops set-up to evacute your 1234yf and store it for you,there by saving you a bunch of money.The s**** is gold plated ;).Or if you're artistic you can do a cam swap with-out opening up the A/C,it's just a bit more of a pain to do with the condensor still in the way,but is definitely do-able
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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Being in Scottsdale,there should be some smaller shops set-up to evacute your 1234yf and store it for you,there by saving you a bunch of money.The s**** is gold plated ;).Or if you're artistic you can do a cam swap with-out opening up the A/C,it's just a bit more of a pain to do with the condensor still in the way,but is definitely do-able
This is what I wanted to hear. If given the choice, I never want to crack open the AC system.... removed.
 

Wild one

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This is what I wanted to hear. If given the choice, I never want to crack open the AC system.... removed.
There's enough hose length to flex the condensor out of the way to give you just enough room to get the cam out, it does make the job a bit more of a pain with it still in place,but for the cost of saving your 1234yf it's well worth the extra time it adds,lol
 

Wild one

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This is what I wanted to hear. If given the choice, I never want to crack open the AC system.... removed.
Have you considered the high volumn Melling oil pump instead of the Hellcat pump. Also does your parts list have a new crank bolt,it's reconmended you replace it,especially if you use the old bolt to pull the balancer back on. Personally i'd also spring for new head bolts,they can be re-used,but new ones sure don't hurt. I just hate having to re-do a job like this because i was being cheap,but that's only my thoughts,lol.

 

1979PowerWagon360

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Just seeing this thread and tried to skim every page. I'm far from an expert for sure. Here's what I can add; my '10 Charger Pursuit started to develop intermittent lifter tick that would go away. Never varied from 5W-20 weight, but car had typical HIGH idle hours and engine hours and started noise at about 80k. Shop pulled oil pan when doing some other work. Unbelievable what was stuck to bottom. Before and after cleaning. Has been quiet as can be since cleaning. I don't know, maybe the idle hours? Not frequent enough oil changes? It's getting them now and Mobil1. Second thing, are you all sure the better lifters (improved needle bearings) after '17? We're still having failures after.

Definitely should at least make sure when you buy the lifters from the dodge dealer or online or whatever that the last 2 digits of the part number are "AD". They have larger needle bearings that do not get stuck on as small of a particle as a smaller needle does. The lifter is the problem not the cam, the flat cam is a result not a cause. Try rolling the "good" lifters from the other 15 lobes on a flat piece of glass and you will hear some of them clicking already before they ate those lobes.
 

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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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Have you considered the high volumn Melling oil pump instead of the Hellcat pump. Also does your parts list have a new crank bolt,it's reconmended you replace it,especially if you use the old bolt to pull the balancer back on. Personally i'd also spring for new head bolts,they can be re-used,but new ones sure don't hurt. I just hate having to re-do a job like this because i was being cheap,but that's only my thoughts,lol.

I have looked at the Melling. The only reason I'm planning on going with the hellcat is when I contacted Melling they said the hellcat will outflow their high flow pump. I intend on swapping the bypass spring on it to the oem 50psi. Head bolts are on the list I never reuse torque to yield bolts.

Shop pulled oil pan when doing some other work. Unbelievable what was stuck to bottom. Before and after cleaning. Has been quiet as can be since cleaning. I don't know, maybe the idle hours? Not frequent enough oil changes? It's getting them now and Mobil1. Second thing, are you all sure the better lifters (improved needle bearings) after '17? We're still having failures after.

Definitely should at least make sure when you buy the lifters from the dodge dealer or online or whatever that the last 2 digits of the part number are "AD". They have larger needle bearings that do not get stuck on as small of a particle as a smaller needle does. The lifter is the problem not the cam, the flat cam is a result not a cause. Try rolling the "good" lifters from the other 15 lobes on a flat piece of glass and you will hear some of them clicking already before they ate those lobes.

Thanks for the suggestion... I'll try dropping the pan at the next oil change to see what state it's in before I buy everything, can't hurt. I've owned the truck since 27k and its had PUP 5w20 almost exclusively except for one stint where I tried Super Tech Advanced 5w20. Since PUP i've done 5k on M1 fs 5w40 and now its on redline 5w30 where it will most likely stay for the rest of its life.
 

Wild one

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I have looked at the Melling. The only reason I'm planning on going with the hellcat is when I contacted Melling they said the hellcat will outflow their high flow pump. I intend on swapping the bypass spring on it to the oem 50psi. Head bolts are on the list I never reuse torque to yield bolts.



Thanks for the suggestion... I'll try dropping the pan at the next oil change to see what state it's in before I buy everything, can't hurt. I've owned the truck since 27k and its had PUP 5w20 almost exclusively except for one stint where I tried Super Tech Advanced 5w20. Since PUP i've done 5k on M1 fs 5w40 and now its on redline 5w30 where it will most likely stay for the rest of its life.
I'm not so sure the Hellcat pumps extra flow is all that needed in a 5.7,i'm leaning more towards the Melling pump being the better pump for a 5.7. The 6.2's and 6.4's have piston oil squirters that the 5.7's don't have,and the 6.2's also have an external oil cooler,that isn't on either the 5.7 or 6.4 engines. Awhile ago i was leaning towards the Hellcat pump,but not so much now that Melling has a middle of the road pump,but those are only my thoughts. The pump doesn't create anymore crank splash,which is what basically keeps the cam lubed at idle. I'm more leaning towards the Melling pump with the 60 psi spring,and turning the idle up to 700 or 750 rpm instead.
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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I'm not so sure the Hellcat pumps extra flow is all that needed in a 5.7,i'm leaning more towards the Melling pump being the better pump for a 5.7. The 6.2's and 6.4's have piston oil squirters that the 5.7's don't have,and the 6.2's also have an external oil cooler,that isn't on either the 5.7 or 6.4 engines. Awhile ago i was leaning towards the Hellcat pump,but not so much now that Melling has a middle of the road pump,but those are only my thoughts. The pump doesn't create anymore crank splash,which is what basically keeps the cam lubed at idle. I'm more leaning towards the Melling pump with the 60 psi spring,and turning the idle up to 700 or 750 rpm instead.
From what I've read, I believe the cam is lubricated via oil galleys in the head not crank splash. I'll see if I can find the post from another forum where a guy went through the block. I should have bookmarked it
 

crazykid1994

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I'm not so sure the Hellcat pumps extra flow is all that needed in a 5.7,i'm leaning more towards the Melling pump being the better pump for a 5.7. The 6.2's and 6.4's have piston oil squirters that the 5.7's don't have,and the 6.2's also have an external oil cooler,that isn't on either the 5.7 or 6.4 engines. Awhile ago i was leaning towards the Hellcat pump,but not so much now that Melling has a middle of the road pump,but those are only my thoughts. The pump doesn't create anymore crank splash,which is what basically keeps the cam lubed at idle. I'm more leaning towards the Melling pump with the 60 psi spring,and turning the idle up to 700 or 750 rpm instead.
Remind me to do this when I go for my cam… I know I’ll forget.
 

Wild one

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From what I've read, I believe the cam is lubricated via oil galleys in the head not crank splash. I'll see if I can find the post from another forum where a guy went through the block. I should have bookmarked it
It is to an extent,but crank splash is still the biggest luber of the roller face and cam lobe. That's why the earlier Gen 3 Hemi's prior to VVT don't have the same lifter problem as the later ones do.They moved the cam tunnel up to accomodate the VVT oil passage,which puts the cam farther away from crank splash,and that's when the Hemi's started to have cam/lifter issues.Upping the idle rpm has proven to be the most beneficial thing you can do to keep the cam and lifters happy,and driving them a bit on the aggressive side is another proven thing to prolong the life of both
 
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Black1500Ram

Black1500Ram

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It is to an extent,but crank splash is still the biggest luber of the roller face and cam lobe. That's why the earlier Gen 3 Hemi's prior to VVT don't have the same lifter problem as the later ones do.They moved the cam tunnel up to accomodate the VVT oil passage,which puts the cam farther away from crank splash,and that's when the Hemi's started to have cam/lifter issues.Upping the idle rpm has proven to be the most beneficial thing you can do to keep the cam and lifters happy,and driving them a bit on the aggressive side is another proven thing to prolong the life of both
Yeah I hear about the design changes - I'm not experienced enough going through the hemi engine to have an opinion on the contributing factors.

From what I've read and seen in pics / cutaway diagrams, its that the needle bearings in the lifters that are failing, causing the damage to the cam (effect). I'd love to get my hands on a damaged engine to take a look at one.

I might check out a local junk yard one day
 

1979PowerWagon360

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I have looked at the Melling. The only reason I'm planning on going with the hellcat is when I contacted Melling they said the hellcat will outflow their high flow pump. I intend on swapping the bypass spring on it to the oem 50psi. Head bolts are on the list I never reuse torque to yield bolts.



Thanks for the suggestion... I'll try dropping the pan at the next oil change to see what state it's in before I buy everything, can't hurt. I've owned the truck since 27k and its had PUP 5w20 almost exclusively except for one stint where I tried Super Tech Advanced 5w20. Since PUP i've done 5k on M1 fs 5w40 and now its on redline 5w30 where it will most likely stay for the rest of its life.
I don't know if truck is any different but you have to dig into the front of engine (water pump, timing cover) to pull oil pan so I don't know if you want to go this far now. I suspect the police usage led to what was found in my pan. I was still amazed to see that in the pan and it was still running!!! All of it was stuck to pan and had to be scraped out but I'm sure pieces or debris had to be floating around at times and causing a roller to lock at least at times, hence the noise. Again, has not made a single lifter noise since (1000's of miles now)!
 
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