Operation: Big speakers little holes

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charonblk07

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Friggin awesome!!! That YouTube channel an excellent resource. Those guys do some sweet work. I can't believe that they take time to video all those tips and tricks.

Sent from my LG 8.3 GPe

I've spent hours watching some of the videos repeatedly and a lot of the tips are really simple things that as soon as you've seen them there's a few facepalm moments where you can't believe how easy it can be sometimes. I like them because they can be used by a range of people from complete novices to intermediate builders.

And good to know about the remote jack, thanks.
 
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BradKnob

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got the mount done...so i thought


sanded smooth then hit with dynaglass...

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Primered to find pinholes/imperfections. I dont recommend white but its all I had.

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Hit it up with spot putty, and more sanding and some wet sanding...

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test fit. Rat rod style. Just gonna leave it like this...


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J/K

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I thought the primer filled some of the spots but apparently not. So I have a little more work to do. Also need to get the glue from the tape off the screen but at least you get the idea.
 
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BradKnob

BradKnob

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Thanks.

The screen need a little pressure to get in, and has to be pushed out from the back.

The whole thing needs to be pressed in with a little force as well. Its pretty easy to pry out but no daily driving is gonna make it budge.
 
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BradKnob

BradKnob

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Something else i thought id share that i thought was really cool and could help others as they get more in depth in tuning their system.

Now all the work and money put into this doesnt necessarily mean the perfect sound right off the bat. Could actually sound worse than just an amp and a few 6x9s if not setup correctly so ive been doing a lot of reading trying to figure the right paths to take. PATHS, because there are many...


I had a 3 way active setup in my last vehicle and was constantly tweeking and tunig but seemingly never really got anywhere. Now, the ms-8 does help a TON for a noobish tuner as myself but really all i got was a nearly perfect sound stage. Which means, all the music is coming from up front. Like being at a concert, all music is in front of you. Almost as if the band is playing on the dash board. Its hard to explain if you havent experinced it, but all the music seems to be just coming from the windsheild and you cant actually hear the speaker, you just hear the music (your ears cant determine where the sound is actually coing from) if that makes any sense. This is something I have never been able to to achieve on my own, at least not to this extent.

Now once the MS-8 does its thing, it was the tone of the music that i was unhappy with. Top end seemed dull and midbass was lacking. This is where the 31 band EQ comes into play. This is also where, in the past, I usually mess everything up. so in my studies, i found what the pros consider to be the best response curve. Of course this is extremely subjective but all of them are very similar so this is what i would aim for and go from there...


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You can see the bump in the lower frequencies, a relatively flat response throught the midrange, and a slight roll off on the high end. Now just set your EQ to that shape and your good to go, right? WRONG! This is the respnse of your speakers. To find the response you would need an RTA (real time analizer) which could cost up in the hundreds of dollars or even more.




What I found and have read that others got pretty accurate results with is an iphone app JL audio tools (free), there are many others, that use your smart phones mic to measure frequency responce down to 1.3 octave (which is exactly what the MS-8 EQ is).

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(my office response, not my truck.) Ill show that later



Now, I am %100 aware that this may not be dead on accurate nor a substitute for a $600 RTA setup, but for a novice I thinks a great and free alternative or starting point to find major peaks and dips in response. It did for me.

What you do is look for a frequencey that is way higher or lower than the one next to it than adjust your EQ accordingly. For instance in the chart above, 63 hz and 100hz are significantly louder than the band in between. You want to even those out. by dropping both, raising one, or having them meet in the middle (depending on you desired response curve). You want to do this across the whole eq and ultimately having your response look similar to one of the few in the chart above or to whatever your taste desires. what this does basically is have all frequencies playin about the same volume which in turns makes the music sound a lot smoother and cleaner and lets u turn it up LOUDER.

I started this last night and was really surprised at how sloppy my response was and much i had to cut certain bands to get it close to the next. I started with the low freq and was amazed how much it cleaned up the mid bass sub bass region. I found that at a certain volume my doors would distort pretty bad. Once i cut that frequency down a few Db, i was able to turn it up louder than before and still have a nice clean sound. when I get home later im going to finish playing with it and post my results.


Ok, that was wordy. If any of this is unclear, ill be happy to try and explain to the best of my knowledge as this is new for me as well and im still learning. Just thought id pass this along bc it helped me quite a bit and its pretty cool to play with.


If you made it this far, thanks for reading.
 
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BradKnob

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I should probably add, that when using the RTA, a pink noise track is the easiest. Regular music will show the response all over the place. Pink noise is a constant noise and is better for getting a more accurate response from you speakers.
 
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BradKnob

BradKnob

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I think I got it as good as it's gonna get...


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But being the glutton for punishment I am, needs to be better

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That's better...

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autokraftgt

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The MS8 Controller looks sick in that location! You did awesome work there sir!
I like the response curve you have chosen...looks like the John Whitledge curve I shoot for....hot in the sub bass frequencies....smooth in the middle with a slight roll off up high.
I have used that app to get me in the ball park with pink noise....my installer and tuner has a RTA that we use, but that app is really handy.
Can you store more than one "TUNE" on the MS8?
I'll try and post up my response from the iphone app....
Since I like my music loud, cutting db to match other frequencies seems to help rather than boosting certain frequencies
 

Etroze86

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Thanks for the RTA write up I was wondering if any of the apps were worth a darn.
 
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BradKnob

BradKnob

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The MS8 Controller looks sick in that location! You did awesome work there sir!
I like the response curve you have chosen...looks like the John Whitledge curve I shoot for....hot in the sub bass frequencies....smooth in the middle with a slight roll off up high.
I have used that app to get me in the ball park with pink noise....my installer and tuner has a RTA that we use, but that app is really handy.
Can you store more than one "TUNE" on the MS8?
I'll try and post up my response from the iphone app....
Since I like my music loud, cutting db to match other frequencies seems to help rather than boosting certain frequencies


Thanks man.

The MS-8 allows me to save 5 settings. I didnt have as much time as i had liked last night to mess with it but my response is close that shape but still a bit sloppy. Although, this is the first time i ever measured my response and tuned accordingly, Im pretty amazed at how its coming along with such a simple method. I never realized how bad my music used to sound LOL. Id just tune by ear and my EQ wound up looking like a smiley face and would be maxed out at 12 on the volume knob. So EFF yea times 100000 on cutting rather than boosting.

Thanks for the RTA write up I was wondering if any of the apps were worth a darn.

Id say its a crude starting point if, like me, you have always just done it by ear. I dont think id jump in any competition with my smartphone tune but its nice for what it is...free and can get you started in the right direction.

If i know myself like i think i do, ill want better in a few weeks and breakdown and get an RTA.




snapped this, this morning. I think the color is pretty damn close. Now onto the doors....

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BradKnob

BradKnob

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Just curious, how does the sub/custom enclosure sound?

Perfect.....to me.

Most people would say, "dude i got 1 -10" thats louder than that" durr durr


I dont care, my sub staged is geared toward sound quality not SPL. Its very smooth, hits every note its supposed to (very damn accurately and realistically), and fills the cab with bass without sounding like theres even a sub back there.

I have built many enclosures both wood and fiberglass, some wound up in the trash some still in use today. I found that no matter which route you take (sq or spl) there are a few keys to making an enclosure sound good...

1. %100000 air tight
2. proper air space (for the sub you are using)
3. As little flex as possible


All the tuning in the world cant make up for a ****tty install
 
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BradKnob

BradKnob

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OK, ive been farting with this ms-8 for the past week and have found out, this thing is like a freakin woman. Its all touchy, stubborn and sensitive, then screams like a hyena when you put something in the wrong hole. But if you set it right and give it what it wants, itll make ur pants tight!!


But seriously its very sensitive to everything thing around it being set right. From head unit voltage to amp input voltage to amp output voltage to volume in which you calibrate you can end up with a million different sounds. At first i had a perfect center stage but no volume. Then a lot of volume but no image and tonality was not good, etc etc. Well i found out what makes it tick after hours of trial and error but one thing remained constant throughout...my mid bass was lacking. I figured id jump on the doors instead of spending any more time tuning something i knew would be replaced any way. About 3pm today was the only chance this whole weekend i had to do work so lets see whats going on. I figured its either install related or speaker related or both.


Took passenger side off and first thing i notice was speaker surround coming un glued. Surely that doesnt help. Now im positive there was no air leaks but when i beat on the baffle there is some flex. I think i took all the strength out the plastic from chopping it up so much.


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Now that i have grown ass man speakers i need a solid grown ass man baffle to make sure i get all i can from them. First, I need to make sure they fit...



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Holy balls! they fit with the baffle as it is. this made me smile. I was seriously considering chopping up door panels of they were too deep.


Now how to make the plastic stronger?...:mexsmoke::mexsmoke::mexsmoke:





Got it... first i trimmed all the plastic down to the door card in order to get a flat surface.


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Pretty flat, and i wanted to leave the top and bottom plastic peices you see from the stock 6x9s in order to gauge the distance the baffle can stick out.

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Then i turn to the trusty coard board for a template...

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Now I can bolt the baffle to the door using 4 bolts. 2 of which are actually bolted to metal and the other 2 through the plastic. With the base a little wider im hoping it will disperse some of the energy from the driver and give it a nice solid base to pound on.


Now the outer door panel fit test... no pics but it fits. even better than the last baffle since the last one was much wider.

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Still doesnt past the stock plastic part:rocking::headbang::rocking::headbang:

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Now i know it fits, i cleaned up the edges and hit it with some truck liner so my forum bros dont think im a hack artist. (And to protect from the elements)


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And now the stuff wet dreams are made of...








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So how does it sound? I dont know, didnt have any fkn nuts to hold the fkr on the door. Also need some more weatyher strip to seal a few areas and then do the driver side. Hopefully the next few days i can knock it out.
 
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BradKnob

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Alright, got the passenger door done. Didnt have any time yesterday so this is where im at...


I stopped and got some nuts so i could fasten it all to the door. then I put some weather strip on the back the baffle for a good seal...


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Good thing i checked because i realized that when i tighten the bolts, the baffle pulls too tight to the door and the speaker doesnt fit.:flipthebird:




So plan B. I found a 1/2" piece of hollow aluminum pipe that i used to make some spacers. So i mounted the speaker in the baffle and mounted it to the door then measured the 4 gaps and cut the spacers accordingly.


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BradKnob

BradKnob

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ok brain fart over...


That last pic actually has the spacer in the wrong spot. I actually got a pretty decent seal but used a whole roll of weather strip jus cause.

Here you can see the smaller washer and the closer fit with the weather seal

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Now to start using deadener to hold all it all in. second Skin dont play


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Ok, i squeezed my finger for 2 minutes to get the blood out to freak out my wife. can actually barely see the cut after i cleaned it.





All deadened, sealed, and mounted up...


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I started on the driver side, hopefully will be done tomorrow. I played it a little with just pass side hooked up. Did not touch crossover, gain, anything and it sounded pretty good. just volume wise was about the same as both the morels. They were 8 ohm and this ones 4 and on the amp i had the output at about %50 before morels sounded like they were about to fall apart. So i cranked up the output on the amp and this fukr came to life! Damn this things rocks. I slowly turned the output up to see what it could take and i think my amp ran out of juice before the speaker did. I left my door panel off bc i have some MLV and CCf on the way. freakin pumped to get that all installed. Just hearing this one speaker made me realize how huge of a weak pooint the morels (and maybe the last baffle was).


So morel of the story... Do it right do it tight the First time!




Stay tuned!!!
 

autokraftgt

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Dyns LOVE power
I ran my 650's at three different power levels. Started at 90 watts/ea. They sounded really good. Then ran 180 watts/ea...sounded even better.
Started running 350 watts/ea and they came alive....so dynamic and never ever lost their composure at high volume. I think they sound better and better the louder you play them...
My friend has 450 watts/ea to his mw182's and they sound amazing.
Enjoy!
 
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