Shocking info ZF Fluids...

[tjfdesmo]

I found some "gen-yoo-ine" (salute to Mr. Haney) Mopar ZF magic juice on Amazon from a Mopar dealer for @$100 for 7 Qts. Just did the service on the ZF in our 2020 Grand Cherokee on Sunday. It's a ridiculous procedure pumping fluid in while the hot exhaust is inches away, but it went OK. It helped to have "the boss" in the car going through the shifting, etc., so I didn't have to keep crawling out from under the car. Sux getting old.

GC has about 62K miles, and the pan had very, very little wear material in it.

 

[Wild one]

This is what I have in there now. I’ve done one pan drop at 104000kms. If I get around to it, I’m going to do a drain and fill this week at 138000kms.
View attachment 563552

Where are you getting that fluid from???
A link to it would be great

 

[HEMIMANN]

Chatting with another knowledgeable member, he's going with Allison TES 668 ATF, their latest and greatest.

Seems to be all PAO base stock and latest additive packages to prevent 10 speed trans shudder. Upgrade from TES 295 of 20 years back, which was an upgrade from Dexron III Group III that sheard down too quickly.

Of note, Mobil Delvac 1 ATF is offering this spec, but it ain't cheap ~ $50 per gallon. No doubt all PAO. Then again, since ZF is a PITA to change, using good stuff is essential so you don't have to worry about for 60k miles.

 

[star_deceiver]

Where are you getting that fluid from???
A link to it would be great

Rockauto. $12.43//L.

 

[Burla]

According to zf8 lifeguard folks, zf8 unicorn oil is actually a formula that was killed in 2005 other wise known as atf 3.

and I quote..

ZF Lifeguard 8 ATF 3+ Auto Trans Fluid for ZF 8-speed Automatic​

You cannot make this stuff up folks!

.

 

[Burla]

Um, then there is this..

Is ATF 4 the same as ATF 3?

ATF+4 is approved for use in older transmissions and is currently utilized in newer Chrysler, Jeep, RAM, and Dodge vehicles. The previous MOPAR ATF+3 formulation was discontinued in 2005, ATF+4 is recommended for all transmissions filled with ATF+3.

So Chrysler recommends or should I say implies aft4 for the zf8 in a round about way! Don't shoot the messenger, I just post the stuff. If I had the zf8, I'd be using maxlife just saying, proven formula that is similar specs to zf fluid

.

 

[Burla]

The history of the ZF transmission goes back to 2002, but the ZF 8 was after that spec was killed. So, if that is true then they used something similar in the zf6 transmission from 2002 as with their 2008 ZF. Now, I am not saying I know the truth, just posting what I see, but the specs certainly show zf8 does have the pour points of other pao based fluids. zf8 pour points look a lot like atf3 when compared to the true pao fluids.

Some expensive atf3? 29 bucks sold as atf 3. If it looks like a ducky?

They say it is a bmw thing, but it is being sold as atf3.

.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Valvoline Max Life a Group III?

If yes, I'd rather run the Amsoil SS all PAO.

 

[joesstripclub]

According to zf8 lifeguard folks, zf8 unicorn oil is actually a formula that was killed in 2005 other wise known as atf 3.

and I quote..

ZF Lifeguard 8 ATF 3+ Auto Trans Fluid for ZF 8-speed Automatic​

You cannot make this stuff up folks!

.

I wonder if this is just BMW nomenclature? I pulled up the full list of driveline fluids and I see ATF 2, 4, 6, and 7. Not sure if ATF 2 is or was a thing, but I've definitely not seen 7.

I still don't think ZF fluid is anything special but might need to look into this a bit more still

 

[Burla]

I wonder if this is just BMW nomenclature? I pulled up the full list of driveline fluids and I see ATF 2, 4, 6, and 7. Not sure if ATF 2 is or was a thing, but I've definitely not seen 7.

I still don't think ZF fluid is anything special but might need to look into this a bit more still

You right, it looks like bmw spec'ed zf fluid when atf3 went gone, so they didnt want to spec atf 4 for zf transmissions that previously took atf3. Now "IF" there is any nomenclature that ZF spec'd atf3, then I would be on to something, as of course ZF is common with both brands. pour points and voa's prove ZF fluid is nothing special. In my opinion atf 4 is better then zf fluid in most cases. atf 4 is more stout then maxlife which seams to be a ZF clone

 

[BlownGP]

Um, then there is this..

Is ATF 4 the same as ATF 3?

ATF+4 is approved for use in older transmissions and is currently utilized in newer Chrysler, Jeep, RAM, and Dodge vehicles. The previous MOPAR ATF+3 formulation was discontinued in 2005, ATF+4 is recommended for all transmissions filled with ATF+3.

So Chrysler recommends or should I say implies aft4 for the zf8 in a round about way! Don't shoot the messenger, I just post the stuff. If I had the zf8, I'd be using maxlife just saying, proven formula that is similar specs to zf fluid

.

Thats crazy....

I've had Maxlife in for over a year its been fine. Just use that and its cheap.

 

[Yardbird]

What should I use in the 850-RE? MaxLife?

When taking off uphill from my house when the truck is cold, many times the transmission acts like it is trying to be in two gears at once right before the shift to second. I get a feeling of holding back, then release and shift. Only does it the one time, and not every time, but 50% or more of the time. It's done this since I've owned it at 24k miles.

This happens only under light throttle. If heavier throttle, all shifts are fine, and fine after the first shift.

If I leave the downhill way, the shifts are perfect.

 

[Sherman Bird]

So spec sheets haven't been easy to find on zf fluids or mopar fluids, but I found one on zf 8 lifeguard which is likely the same as mopar fluid, and the stat sheet suggests it is no better then generic trans fluid. Additives aside, someone may decide to do uoa's, and in fact if anyone has any uoa's/voa's on any of these fluids please post them here. So as far as base oil goes, the real pao's of redline d6 and amsoil multi use offer that ZF transmission much better protection in the extremes of cold and hot.

If stats mean anything it suggests the specialized zf fluid is a hoax, not real traditional pao performance in the extremes. It is very weird as Europe and Germany are supposed to have rules against this, but I don't know the minutia or reasoning behind it, I just know stat sheets don't lie, but manufacturers do from time to time. This is an important thing to consider because the ZF operates at such high temps, every owner of a ZF should consider this info when choosing a fluid. We need additive numbers as well for the complete picture.

ZF Fluid

Viscosity at 100°C 5.6
Pour point -42°C

Maxlife multi-

Viscosity at 100°C 5.9
Pour Point -42c
Add a impressive VI at 163
Very decent fluid.

Redline d6-

Vis @ 100°C, CSt 6.3
Pour Point, °C -60
VI 163

Amsoil Multi

Vis @ 100, 6.3
Pour point, -65c
VI, 159

Like the modern medical world, as long as they can baffle folks with BS, as opposed to telling clear, concise truths, they can make lots of moola. Just think, it has only been 4 decades since Ford use one oil filter across the board.... the FL-1A. GM was similar, etc.

But somehow, some shave-tail economics upstart graduate of Texas A&M or such a matter, went to work in corporate America, and realized the potential for confusing EVERYONE!!

I would choose to believe that Chrysler COULD figure out the problems germane to the HEMI.... but do they really WANT TO? Ditto for GM and the 6.2L engines.

I wonder, though, should we all author a thankyou to these entities? After all, we owe our educations about all thing oil and filters to them F%^&*ing up what worked!

 

[HEMIMANN]

Clearly, what society needs is ever more MBA's and Lawyers!

V.P. used to send his MBA hires to me to educate about the biz, then they'd hang around about a year then quite and go work for some worthless, parasitic consulting firm like McKinsey & Company, then we'd see them again telling us the obvious about how to run our business and charging millions for nothing.

*end of rant from frustrated, retired engineer*

 

[BenchTest]

What should I use in the 850-RE? MaxLife?

When taking off uphill from my house when the truck is cold, many times the transmission acts like it is trying to be in two gears at once right before the shift to second. I get a feeling of holding back, then release and shift. Only does it the one time, and not every time, but 50% or more of the time. It's done this since I've owned it at 24k miles.

This happens only under light throttle. If heavier throttle, all shifts are fine, and fine after the first shift.

If I leave the downhill way, the shifts are perfect.

That seems to be "standard issue" for that transmission. First shift of the day, the 1-2 is squeezy-wheezy (shift flare). Mine does it. Has done it since WAY back. I'm on 2nd fluid change (drain/refill) with MaxLife and OEM pan/filter with about 60K combined miles on MaxLife. No issues to report. Still does the silly 1-2 shift on the first shift of the day like it always has, but only about 75% of the time. The other 25% of the time it randomly shifts "correct" on the initial shift. This has drove me nuts for a long time, but I finally accepted it and tried to move on (mostly have, lol). There are lots of posts regarding this subject and it just seems to be the accepted norm for these.

 

[Yardbird]

That seems to be "standard issue" for that transmission. First shift of the day, the 1-2 is squeezy-wheezy (shift flare). Mine does it. Has done it since WAY back. I'm on 2nd fluid change (drain/refill) with MaxLife and OEM pan/filter with about 60K combined miles on MaxLife. No issues to report. Still does the silly 1-2 shift on the first shift of the day like it always has, but only about 75% of the time. The other 25% of the time it randomly shifts "correct" on the initial shift. This has drove me nuts for a long time, but I finally accepted it and tried to move on (mostly have, lol). There are lots of posts regarding this subject and it just seems to be the accepted norm for these.

Thanks for the information. I won't worry about it since it seems common. Mine is exactly as you posted. Mine feels more like a braking effect on that random first shift but acts exactly the same as yours.