Synthetic Oil

[Ramnewbie]

So all in all 10/30 is better, but 5/30 is more serviceable. What was it 50 years ago that 10/30 was the go to oil, then they came out with 10/40 and all the problems started. I'm not talking any brands, just let the government get involved and it's sure to screw things up.

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[Burla]

Yeah but very little versus none is a no brainer.

Also, tells you a lot about the quality of 5w20 redline which btw ended my tick in the first place. My 2 uoa's on 5w20 had ZERO shearing one after two years in the truck.

I appreciate you finding out this info, what you say goes along with the science.

However, the 5w30 still might have qualities that out perform 10w30, but I think in warm states it is a no brainer 10w30.

What still doesn't make sense is why the hths is better on 5w30, unless they order a different 30 weight base to begin with. That would be what I need answered more then which ones have vii's. That alone is why I recommended 5w30 over 10w30 in the first place, even though it goes against the science as I know it as the shorter the swing the better the base. I should have just stuck with that from day one, but the hths rating threw me off.

 

[Hemi395]

What still doesn't make sense is why the hths is better on 5w30, unless they order a different 30 weight base to begin with. That would be what I need answered more then which ones have vii's.

That has to be the answer. It would make sense they would have to use a different 30wt base to be able to not use much VII and still have a thinner W weight with a higher HTHS

 

[Ramnewbie]

Yeah but very little versus none is a no brainer.

Also, tells you a lot about the quality of 5w20 redline which btw ended my tick in the first place.

I appreciate you finding out this info, what you say goes along with the science.

However, the 5w30 still might have qualities that out perform 10w30, but I think in warm states it is a no brainer 10w30.

What still doesn't make sense is why the hths is better on 5w30, unless they order a different 30 weight base to begin with. That would be what I need answered more then which ones have vii's. That alone is why I recommended 5w30 over 10w30 in the first place, even though it goes against the science as I know it as the shorter the swing the better the base. I should have just stuck with that from day one, but the hths rating threw me off.

Maybe the few VII's it does have are keeping it from shearing.

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[U&A]

That’s exactly what he told me Cory he used different viscosity bases to get the variation such as 10W-30

 

[Burla]

So Kyle great info, mucho appreciato

Also, with that new info that the 5w30 is a different 30 weight base oil then 10w30, which basically means more towards the thicker end of 30 weights when compared to 10w30, then that still means it is possible 5w30 would still be best at combating tick. Just awesome, a simple phone call explained something I always struggled with. Can't really go wrong with either 5w30 or 10w30, but I think I will have to get some 10w30.

 

[69GWC]

I will end up ordering up some RL in 10w30 next time with the big filter, it rarely gets below zero here so I will be fine with that.
I have acouple thousand miles to go before I change it though.

Changed at 6k have 11,5xx and 46% on the OLM.. lol

 

[Burla]

Not only 10w30 has no VII's, but also has a better additive package. To see if you can use 10w30 see viscosity chart, you will have very similar operating temperature viscosity, the only place it matters is cold temps, and as you can see you can really use 10w30 in most conditions. In fact 5w30 redline is a little thicker at operating temps, CRAZY?

 

[U&A]

Burla,

You are right when you say 10 W 30 is a “better” oil than 5w30. But in the context of the “better Choice” for the individuals climate. Well we all know that cold climates like lower “w” oils so they are “better choices” for that individual. Not necessary a better oil.

You are right. I was just speaking in a different context sir

 

[U&A]

Not only 10w30 has no VII's, but also has a better additive package. To see if you can use 10w30 see viscosity chart, you will have very similar operating temperature viscosity, the only place it matters is cold temps, and as you can see you can really use 10w30 in most conditions. In fact 5w30 redline is a little thicker at operating temps, CRAZY?

0w40 is thicker at opp temps than 10w40. Its the VII’s. But when some miles are on them its probobly different story

 

[Burla]

Not better oil, better quality base, pure base.

However, the 5w30 is denser, maybe by a lot because even after the hths test it has better hths. Even when the VII's shear off, it still may be a fact that the 5w30 combats tick better because the base is more denser. Again, we might be talking about tiny differences, but rest assured I will be getting some 10w30 and my truck will be a test. Just not this season, stay tuned ha. Again thanks brother, good info today.

On your last post, it is hths that matters not operating temps. What is the hths between those 2?

 

[Ramnewbie]

Not that I believe alot about the ms6395 certification, but redline 10/30 is ms6395 certified. I find that odd that the 5/20 and 10/30 are but 5/30 isn't.

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[Burla]

See dog, 5w40 redline has hths 4.4! 0w40 hths is only 4. 10w40 has only 4.4.

HUGE difference between two 40 weights.

Redline 5w30 is just something different, goes against the grain. Even with vii's it is possible it is better then 10w30 with zero vii's. ]

 

[U&A]

10w40 = 4.4 HTHS. NOACK = 6

0w40 = 4.0 HTHS. NOACK = 9.... ouch

 

[Ramnewbie]

Has anyone ever figured out exactly what the ms6395 standard is? I know the 2 year test and it has to do with cam wear but other than that their seems to be no clear answers.

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[rwreuter]

Dave at redline called me back. Here is the scoop on VII’s in redline blue lable. Its very simple. 5w20 and 10w30 are the only ones that contain zero viscosity index improvers. 5W-30 is the one that contains the least amount of oil’s that contain them. 10w40 is a close 2nd. From there the wider the spread of numbers the more they contains (obviously) and their 0W 40 he says contains quite a bit. I did not get any percentages.

As a sidenote he said all of their oils do contain high amount of ester. He would not mention percentages of Ester but by the way they perform you know the other percentage is going to be PAO.

Thank you dave a redline. Talking to him is like talking to a friend. They share more info about their oil than any other company i have experienced. As we have said they share because of their confidence Level in their products. Redline rocks.

So "zero viscosity index improvers" is a good thing????

 

[Burla]

10w40 = 4.4 HTHS. NOACK = 6

0w40 = 4.0 HTHS. NOACK = 9.... ouch

Your right, must have misread something. So I don't feel like opening a can of worms, but same hths 5w40 and 10w40, so goes to show you 5w30 is anomaly. Redline goes to the trouble to have a 5w30 base thicker then a 10w30 past the VII's. That is what hths does, gets past the VII's.

 

[Burla]

downsides to VII's.

Disadvantages
Unfortunately, viscosity index improvers do have some drawbacks. The primary disadvantage is they are susceptible to mechanical shearing. When referring to the slinky analogy, it is easy to imagine a stretched-out slinky cut in half by mechanical processes to produce two shorter slinkys.

As the additive is repeatedly sheared, it loses its ability to act as a more viscous fluid at higher temperatures. Higher molecular weight polymers make better thickeners but tend to have less resistance to mechanical shear. Lower molecular weight polymers are more shear-resistant, but do not improve viscosity as effectively at higher temperatures and, therefore, must be used in larger quantities.

 

[Burla]

So now the question is if you have an oil of visc 9 and no VII's and you have an oil with operating temps visc 10 but it has VII's and better hths which would you consider a better oil. It is such a loaded question we would need to know a lot more. This is a general question not referring to the two 30 weight redlines.

The bottom line if you are choosing a 30 weight oil based on hths then redline 5w30 is the choice, if you are choosing an oil with zero VII's then 10w30 redline would be the choice. I would wager you can't find an oil available in America where the 5w30 has an hths of 3.7 except for redline, and I would also wager GOOD money no other 10w30 has zero VII's except Redline. No wrong choice, 2 great oils.

 

[U&A]

downsides to VII's.

Disadvantages
Unfortunately, viscosity index improvers do have some drawbacks. The primary disadvantage is they are susceptible to mechanical shearing. When referring to the slinky analogy, it is easy to imagine a stretched-out slinky cut in half by mechanical processes to produce two shorter slinkys.

As the additive is repeatedly sheared, it loses its ability to act as a more viscous fluid at higher temperatures. Higher molecular weight polymers make better thickeners but tend to have less resistance to mechanical shear. Lower molecular weight polymers are more shear-resistant, but do not improve viscosity as effectively at higher temperatures and, therefore, must be used in larger quantities.

I know exactly what you are saying, but if I would try to explain it, it would sound like this.... \/\/\/