ZF service recommendations straight from ZF

[Jeepwalker]

A buddy of mine used to get a new company car every 2-3yrs. He was an on-the-road sales exec, and put on a lot of miles visiting distributors, etc. Back in the mid 80's he was supplied with a Caprice/Impala w/V8. For an experiment, after the initial break-in engine oil change he put in Mobil1 and never changed it while he had the car. Nor the filter. He just wanted to see how it would go. This was back in an era when there were lots of magazine and TV ads claiming how amazing Mobil 1 *synthetic* oil was, and you didn't need to change it very often.

He put on like 80k miles, till he got the next car. Obviously he had to add some quarts during those couple years, but he says it wasn't too many. The Mobil-1 always looked really clean, even when he sold it. Now remember, these would have been mostly highway miles. Usually the cars went to auction or whatever the company did with them, but in this case another sales guy from the company (he knew the guy) bought the car as a family car and basically drove it for many yrs and it was handed down to the kid. Until it basically rusted out. At sales meetings the guy who bought the car would tell him how great it was, been real reliable. He never told the guy about his experiment. His buddy had asked what kind of oil he had been using when he first bought the car, but my buddy doesn't know what oil he used after that.

Obviously that's not something I would do on my car, but yeah it was interesting to see how it worked in that case.

Even though it's synthetic, if I were planning to keep a truck for a long time, I'd probably change the trans fluid around the 80-ish mark. If it's mostly highway miles, then maybe a little longer. Just to be safe and try to coax more out of a tranny.

 

[HunterCat]

You're assuming it has the proper amount from the factory,what happens if it doesn't.I'm also curious on how you're planning on compensating for the fluid trapped in the original filter

Good points! I'm ok assuming the factory filled it correctly because the transmission is operating well (knocks on wood). Didn't think about the filter though
I guess I'll have to rethink my "hack"

 

[NETim]

The "green sheet" ZF procedure looks intimidating but it's really not that difficult to perform provided you have the proper tools.

Chrysler even thoughtfully provided a means to keep your hand warm while replacing the fill plug. At least on the 5.7's.

 

[BossHogg]

Guys get married and vow "Forever and ever, amen"...Three years into it, they realize lifetime is way too long to not have change....Look at your transmission the same way. Give it a few years then trade that old fluid in for newer, fresh fluid. Your unit will thank you.

The ambiguity of our language is amazing. Lawyers make a good living playing with the ambiguity.

As far as the vows, forever is defined as "as long as our love lasts".

 

[Wild one]

Chrysler even thoughtfully provided a means to keep your hand warm while replacing the fill plug. At least on the 5.7's.
[/QUOTE]

Now that made me laugh Tim,lol

 

[BossHogg]

A buddy of mine used to get a new company car every 2-3yrs. He was an on-the-road sales exec, and put on a lot of miles visiting distributors, etc. Back in the mid 80's he was supplied with a Caprice/Impala w/V8. For an experiment, after the initial break-in engine oil change he put in Mobil1 and never changed it while he had the car. Nor the filter. He just wanted to see how it would go. This was back in an era when there were lots of magazine and TV ads claiming how amazing Mobil 1 *synthetic* oil was, and you didn't need to change it very often.

I believe that.

People have a tendency to "over maintain" (and ignore recommendations) which is fine but does wast money and resources. RAM tells me to change out the oil on my Cummins at 15,000 miles, reasonable albeit I don't put on that many miles each year so it is on a yearly service. The ED is an oil change every 10,000 miles, OK, I would follow that but like the Cummins, I don't put on 10,000 a year so it to gets a yearly service.

I have three pieces of Kubota land maintenance equipment, all three are fully hydraulic units so the diesel engine is always pushing the hydraulic pumps so it is under a full-time varying load. The recommended oil change interval is 400 hours. Well, I don't get that many hours on any one unit so they get oil changes every two years just like my Generac, the recommended oil change is once every two years or 200 hours.

I had a 2003 Tahoe Z71, I drove that till April of 2013 when I got my first Chrysler product (I was a GM employee at the time) and I accumulated 300,000 miles on that SUV and all I did was follow scheduled maintenance and changed oil based on the oil life indicator.

Just to throw in some humor, I'm still trying to figure out how to properly maintain my bride, as all of us fellows know, women do not come with a manual, not even a quick start guide.

 

[Jeepwalker]

...I'm still trying to figure out how to properly maintain my bride, as all of us fellows know, women do not come with a manual, not even a quick start guide.

I'm going to have to resist temptation on that one, so I don't get banned

 

[GTyankee]

A flies life time is 7 days
what is the lifetime of Fleet Guard trans fluid
or the lifetime of a Ram

 

[indept]

I doubt that simply because someone shopping for a new vehicle is unlikely to ask the salesperson to show them vehicles with only lifetime transmission fluid.

I got curious and searched "What Does Lifetime Transmission Fluid Really Mean" and found several of the same answers that all said something like;

"The statements “Lifetime, Lifetime Fill, Fill for Life, or Sealed for Life” used by vehicle and transmission manufacturers, is typically understood to indicate the transmission fluid and transmission filter will last the lifetime of the vehicle while under warranty. However, these statements tend to create some misconceptions that may lead to neglecting the maintenance of the transmission. It may also not reflect the important need to change the transmission fluid in order to achieve long-term reliability of the vehicle's transmission well beyond the warranty period.

For example, statements like these have become common among many popular transmission manufacturers including variants of some Aisin and ZF 6 and 8-speed transmission types used by several vehicle makers such as Toyota, Audi, BMW, Land Rover, Jaguar, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, and others."

But it also is a sales gimmick. When I look for a vehicle one of the things I look for is cost to own which includes maintenance costs. Throw 3 fluid changes @ $500+ onto those costs it adds up.

 

[indept]

A flies life time is 7 days
what is the lifetime of Fleet Guard trans fluid
or the lifetime of a Ram

Answer: A Rams lifetime is 1,043 Flies

 

[BossHogg]

But it also is a sales gimmick. When I look for a vehicle one of the things I look for is cost to own which includes maintenance costs. Throw 3 fluid changes @ $500+ onto those costs it adds up.

Some people ask questions like you suggest but I think that is the minority of buyers. I personally don't focus on the cost of ownership but I pretty much know that going in from pre-purchase research. I've been tagging with my wife as she has been shopping for a new Bronco, for some reason, she wants one. She never asks about maintenance items or cost to maintain, she is interested in vehicle aesthetics, ride quality, cabin road noise, will her astronomy telescopes fit in the back, does it have a heated steering wheel and seats, etc., that is what is important to her. She chose the Bronco over the Bronco Sport simply because the infotainment display was fully integrated into the dash. She doesn't care or even think about the tire tread life, time between oil changes, cost of filters, etc. That is what I think about but not her and she is likely the majority of car shoppers.

The last dealer we were at offered up free lifetime oil changes (here we go again, lifetime) and tire rotations, she didn't think much of it and I know what a pain it is to run to the dealer for that type of service. I think I will just do the oil and rotations myself or as long as my aging body will allow.

Once she completed her process of choosing the new vehicle she wanted and it had the options she demanded, she focused on the price of the vehicle. It took a few dealer visits but she found one that would sell her what she wanted for the price she was willing to pay. So the Bronco Outer Banks with lifetime oil changes and tire rotations has been ordered. While we wait for the vehicle, I guess I will investigate what the Bronceo's service requirements are.

 

[BossHogg]

I looked it up, the gasoline powertrain is 5 years or 60K miles, the diesel powertrain is 5 years or 100K miles.

My oldest son works for ZF albeit the group he is in is the mid-level driveline, delivery vehicles, and one-ton pickup type vehicles. He will be here to feed on Thanksgiving and I'll ask him what he knows about it. Before switching jobs, he worked in Chrysler's powertrain group on the ED program, back around 2013 through 2018.

For those interested, I asked him about the ZF lifetime, and he responded correct, that is why the transmission is sealed. I asked what is the definition of lifetime, he said they figure the lifetime to be 150,000 miles (ah, so lifetime has a limit). I asked what about those that tow the majority of the time in the heat of Arizona or the cold of Alaska, he said they ran extensive tests well outside of the limits of the average driver at both the Arizona proving grounds as well as the Northern Michigan proving grounds with no issues. He also reminded me the ZF8 speed used in Chrysler vehicles is made by ZF (in Germany) and by Chrysler under license.

Then I asked how many transmission failures did he see. He said his group would only see/hear about transmission failures that occurred under the new vehicle warranty (three-year 60,000 or 100,000 and not Maxcare) and if the failure was undetermined then they would get it for a forensics study. He did not recall one failure pointing at the lubricity or other fault of the fluid.

I sometimes referenced "he" and "they" but I'm really referencing the powertrain group, driveline. For what it is worth.

 

[Wild one]

For those interested, I asked him about the ZF lifetime, and he responded correct, that is why the transmission is sealed. I asked what is the definition of lifetime, he said they figure the lifetime to be 150,000 miles (ah, so lifetime has a limit). I asked what about those that tow the majority of the time in the heat of Arizona or the cold of Alaska, he said they ran extensive tests well outside of the limits of the average driver at both the Arizona proving grounds as well as the Northern Michigan proving grounds with no issues. He also reminded me the ZF8 speed used in Chrysler vehicles is made by ZF (in Germany) and by Chrysler under license.

Then I asked how many transmission failures did he see. He said his group would only see/hear about transmission failures that occurred under the new vehicle warranty (three-year 60,000 or 100,000 and not Maxcare) and if the failure was undetermined then they would get it for a forensics study. He did not recall one failure pointing at the lubricity or other fault of the fluid.

I sometimes referenced "he" and "they" but I'm really referencing the powertrain group, driveline. For what it is worth.

I'm still more inclined to believe ZF's service reconmendations over your son.They say service the transmission between 80,000 kilometers and 130,000 kms or 8 years,and they'd see more of the transmissions then your son would have seen.Not saying your son is wrong,but it sounds like his group only seen a fraction of the transmissions that blew up,and Michigan doesn't really get cold in my opinion,lol

 

[DILLIGAF]

Anyone who believes in lifetime fluids usually dont know how to turn wrenches, and have never rebuilt engines or transmissions, so their opinion is laughable.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

Anyone who believes in lifetime fluids usually dont know how to turn wrenches, and have never rebuilt engines or transmissions, so their opinion is laughable.

You got that right. Amen to that !!!

 

[BossHogg]

I'm still more inclined to believe ZF's service reconmendations over your son.

First of all, my son made NO service suggestion, he simply answered a few questions that were floating around this thread. Like I said in my post, for what it was worth. I did not post our conversation so he could be challenged over something not said. Damn!

 

[Wild one]

First of all, my son made NO service suggestion, he simply answered a few questions that were floating around this thread. Like I said in my post, for what it was worth. I did not post our conversation so he could be challenged over something not said. Damn!

You're commenting on a thread about ZF service reconmendations,where you brought up the life expectancy of the transmission is a 150,000 miles. I only pointed out a few points in your post that are fairly obvious points. Basically the way i read your post,it sounds like your son is saying the fluid doesn't need changing ,because of this comment of his "He did not recall one failure pointing at the lubricity or other fault of the fluid.".I'm not sure how you'd read that comment,but that's the way i read it,so maybe you should step back and look at that comment from the angle the rest of us looked at it. You're trying to read way more into my post then i put there,so don't be getting all upset

 

[BossHogg]

You're commenting on a thread about ZF service reconmendations,where you brought up the life expectancy of the transmission is a 150,000 miles. I only pointed out a few points in your post that are fairly obvious points. Basically the way i read your post,it sounds like your son is saying the fluid doesn't need changing ,because of this comment of his "He did not recall one failure pointing at the lubricity or other fault of the fluid.".I'm not sure how you'd read that comment,but that's the way i read it,so maybe you should step back and look at that comment from the angle the rest of us looked at it. You're trying to read way more into my post then i put there,so don't be getting all upset

I guess that is an issue with Internet forums, what I was trying to say versus how it is interrupted. I regret saying anything.

 

[Wild one]

I guess that is an issue with Internet forums, what I was trying to say versus how it is interrupted. I regret saying anything.

You're call,not mine. I'm just pointing out how your comments came across

 

[Bmags]

It’s pretty clear… his son says the lifetime interval is 150k, and they saw no failures in transmissions from bad fluid with less than 100k.

So if you plan to run your vehicle more than that, by all means change your fluid.