Engine tick question

[meubin10]

Alright well I’m going to change the manifold gaskets and possibly the manifold itself if it’s warped whenever I have the chance and see if that helps any. I’ll keep you updated since it sounds like we’re having the same issue.

Cool, thanks. I haven't had a chance to inspect my exhaust manifold / those bolts. I may ask someone to take a look soon.

 

[DJ18hemi1500]

Mine actually sounds quite a bit like yours. And I bought it used around 128K miles in early October. It's ticked since I bought it. I work remotely and rarely have to drive anywhere, only put about 5K-6K miles per year on whatever my daily driver is (the truck at the moment).

Here's a video of mine, also at full operating temp. https://youtube.com/shorts/RTZbypm0jPc?feature=share

Does your engine tick sound different on cold start up vs. warmed up?

 

[meubin10]

Does your engine tick sound different on cold start up vs. warmed up?

It doesn't tick when cold, at least not that I can hear. The tick doesn't seem to start at all until it's close to operating temp.

 

[Rod Knock]

@dkelly3103

I wouldn't wait until something serious happens because it's a terrible idea. Try to clean your engine. There might be some contamination in one of the lifters. Pour in a Liqui Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush bottle, idle the engine for 30 minutes, and dump the oil and filter. Install a new filter, put in fresh oil, run it for a couple of days, discard the lube, and filter again. Then put in your final fill. I recommend Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. Some here use RedLine 5W-30. However, it has a terrible cold flow. That shouldn't be an issue if you're not in a cold climate. RedLine will, however, continue mildly cleaning. So will Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. However, not as much as RedLine 5W-30.

Another alternative is to go on your final fill with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and add a quart of HPL Engine Cleaner. It's a fully formulated Ester Engine Oil explicitly meant for cleaning. You can read more about it here: https://www.advlubrication.com/products/engine-cleaner.

If you go this route, you should dump the oil and engine cleaner and the filter after 2000~3000 miles.

These are pretty much the only few ways you might see results. Some mechanics advocate running ATF in the engine, idling it for 30 minutes to get rid of the tick. Some advocate for Lucas and Marvel Mystery Oil, so there you go. I'm afraid I have to disagree with that unless you want to do some damage.

I only advocate safe methods of engine cleaning and exercising precaution. Suppose you're still running an ILSAC oil like 5W-20/5W-30 (Mobil 1, Pennzoil, etc.). Get rid of it. Running a cooler thermostat after fixing your tick also helps because you essentially run the entire engine cooler. That's what I do.

Good luck!

 

[dkelly3103]

@dkelly3103

I wouldn't wait until something serious happens because it's a terrible idea. Try to clean your engine. There might be some contamination in one of the lifters. Pour in a Liqui Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush bottle, idle the engine for 30 minutes, and dump the oil and filter. Install a new filter, put in fresh oil, run it for a couple of days, discard the lube, and filter again. Then put in your final fill. I recommend Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. Some here use RedLine 5W-30. However, it has a terrible cold flow. That shouldn't be an issue if you're not in a cold climate. RedLine will, however, continue mildly cleaning. So will Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. However, not as much as RedLine 5W-30.

Another alternative is to go on your final fill with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and add a quart of HPL Engine Cleaner. It's a fully formulated Ester Engine Oil explicitly meant for cleaning. You can read more about it here: https://www.advlubrication.com/products/engine-cleaner.

If you go this route, you should dump the oil and engine cleaner and the filter after 2000~3000 miles.

These are pretty much the only few ways you might see results. Some mechanics advocate running ATF in the engine, idling it for 30 minutes to get rid of the tick. Some advocate for Lucas and Marvel Mystery Oil, so there you go. I'm afraid I have to disagree with that unless you want to do some damage.

I only advocate safe methods of engine cleaning and exercising precaution. Suppose you're still running an ILSAC oil like 5W-20/5W-30 (Mobil 1, Pennzoil, etc.). Get rid of it. Running a cooler thermostat after fixing your tick also helps because you essentially run the entire engine cooler. That's what I do.

Good luck!

I have a Blackstone Analysis report that I should have the results for Tuesday. That will give a the definite answer of its actually harming anything. If the results aren’t what I want to see then ill get the lifters replaced within the next few weeks. If it doesn’t show any unusual wear I will definitely try what you and others have recommended on different oils/cleaners ect. I may be in luck as well if the lifter/s are infact starting to go as I recently remembered I’ve been paying for a aftermarket warranty (CarShield), and after looking through my contract the lifters *should* be covered without me paying anything out of pocket aside from the $100 deductible. I’ll check back in Tuesday with the results from the oil report and where I’ll be going from there.

 

[Rod Knock]

I have a Blackstone Analysis report that I should have the results for Tuesday. That will give a the definite answer of its actually harming anything. If the results aren’t what I want to see then ill get the lifters replaced within the next few weeks. If it doesn’t show any unusual wear I will definitely try what you and others have recommended on different oils/cleaners ect. I may be in luck as well if the lifter/s are infact starting to go as I recently remembered I’ve been paying for a aftermarket warranty (CarShield), and after looking through my contract the lifters *should* be covered without me paying anything out of pocket aside from the $100 deductible. I’ll check back in Tuesday with the results from the oil report and where I’ll be going from there.

Warranties are usually a scam, while oil analysis reports aren't meant to tell you the condition of your engine, but rather the condition of your oil. If you have a warranty then I wouldn't sit around and wait. Get a hold of a reputable shop, have it diagnosed, and work it out with them to where you can get a nice set of Johnson lifters and a forged cam, new pushrods, and new valve springs. If they remove the oil pan then have them replace the oil pump with the 6.4L HEMI oil pump, new timing chain, and timing chain guides. Have them inspect the cam bushings (bearings, but they're really bushings), and if need be, replace them. After it's all done run a good ACEA A3/B4 Euro Lube in it and a good filter. I'm running Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and FRAM Titanium FS2 filter. The M1 0W-40 has better cold flow than any 5W-20. I guarantee you 200% that the oil analysis can't predict or even tell you if you have, or are facing an imminent cam and lifter failure. It just doesn't work that way.

Johnson Lifters (best of the best): https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/HydraulicRollerLifters/2326.aspx

 

[dkelly3103]

Warranties are usually a scam, while oil analysis reports aren't meant to tell you the condition of your engine, but rather the condition of your oil. If you have a warranty then I wouldn't sit around and wait. Get a hold of a reputable shop, have it diagnosed, and work it out with them to where you can get a nice set of Johnson lifters and a forged cam, new pushrods, and new valve springs. If they remove the oil pan then have them replace the oil pump with the 6.4L HEMI oil pump, new timing chain, and timing chain guides. Have them inspect the cam bushings (bearings, but they're really bushings), and if need be, replace them. After it's all done run a good ACEA A3/B4 Euro Lube in it and a good filter. I'm running Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and FRAM Titanium FS2 filter. The M1 0W-40 has better cold flow than any 5W-20. I guarantee you 200% that the oil analysis can't predict or even tell you if you have, or are facing an imminent cam and lifter failure. It just doesn't work that way.

Johnson Lifters (best of the best): https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/HydraulicRollerLifters/2326.aspx

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I was under the impression the oil analysis would show any unusual wear. Would that not tell me if I have lifter that’s going bad wearing down a cam lobe?

 

[dkelly3103]

And as much as I would like to have all the work done that you mentioned that isn’t really practical for me. It’s my daily driver so I can’t have it in the shop for very long at all so I’d rather get only what’s needed done and back on the road as soon as possible. Aside from all of that, if the warranty company won’t cover the work I’ll be doing it myself as I’m not in the position right now to pay a shop out of pocket to it so I’ll just be doing what’s nessecary.

 

[Burla]

0 winter rated oils only buy you a small viscosity decrease over 5 winter rated oils, the weight is a much more indicator on how an oil when flow in the cold, it is disinformation to ever say a 40 weight will flow better then a 20 weight in the cold.

50% if hemi tick is lifter tick, which means the other 50% is exhaust tick, so you have a 50/50 chance it is exhaust. If when you change the oil there is zero change in the tick, it is very likely it is exhaust bolts. At this point my guess would be exhaust, so get under there and check bolts. Life is easier if you have ramps when dyi'n oil changes or stuff like this. If you try redline I'd look at 0w30, but it wont do you any good if it is exhaust bolts. It still is a good oil to protect that cam moving forward, stacked with great base oils and additives that protect metal.

 

[dkelly3103]

0 winter rated oils only buy you a small viscosity decrease over 5 winter rated oils, the weight is a much more indicator on how an oil when flow in the cold, it is disinformation to ever say a 40 weight will flow better then a 20 weight in the cold.

50% if hemi tick is lifter tick, which means the other 50% is exhaust tick, so you have a 50/50 chance it is exhaust. If when you change the oil there is zero change in the tick, it is very likely it is exhaust bolts. At this point my guess would be exhaust, so get under there and check bolts. Life is easier if you have ramps when dyi'n oil changes or stuff like this. If you try redline I'd look at 0w30, but it wont do you any good if it is exhaust bolts. It still is a good oil to protect that cam moving forward, stacked with great base oils and additives that protect metal.

I’m leaning towards an exhaust leak as well I’m just a little confused at the fact it only ticks when warm. I’ve tried several different types of oil and none have changed the ticking at all. On top of that it’s been ticking for last 15k miles I’ve had it with no change. I was hoping the oil analysis would confirm whether or not I have anything to worry about, but the previous comment made it clear that the results I get wouldn’t tell me much as far as the condition of the engine. Do you have anything to add to that?

 

[dkelly3103]

50% if hemi tick is lifter tick, which means the other 50% is exhaust tick, so you have a 50/50 chance it is exhaust. If when you change the oil there is zero change in the tick, it is very likely it is exhaust bolts. At this point my guess would be exhaust, so get under there and check bolts. Life is easier if you have ramps when dyi'n oil changes or stuff like this. If you try redline I'd look at 0w30, but it wont do you any good if it is exhaust bolts. It still is a good oil to protect that cam moving forward, stacked with great base oils and additives that protect metal.

Don’t know if I’ve mentioned it or not, but I have already checked all the exhaust bolts and none are broke. Not sure what the torque spec is suppose to be, but I was able to tighten all of them about a quarter turn. This DID seem to quiet the tick down a very small amount but it could also be me just thinking it helped.

 

[Rod Knock]

0 winter rated oils only buy you a small viscosity decrease over 5 winter rated oils, the weight is a much more indicator on how an oil when flow in the cold, it is disinformation to ever say a 40 weight will flow better then a 20 weight in the cold.

Down to sane temperatures, a 5W-20 Synthetic will flow slightly better than a 0W-40. Once you surpass -30C, the 5W-20 might not flow at all, yet the 0W-40 will keep ongoing. If you take a viscosity-temperature calculator and plug the numbers in, you'll see what I mean.

I’ve tried several different types of oil and none have changed the ticking at all.

What exactly have you tried?

 

[dkelly3103]

Down to sane temperatures, a 5W-20 Synthetic will flow slightly better than a 0W-40. Once you surpass -30C, the 5W-20 might not flow at all, yet the 0W-40 will keep ongoing. If you take a viscosity-temperature calculator and plug the numbers in, you'll see what I mean.


What exactly have you tried?

Carquest synthetic 5w20, mobile 1 5w20 and 5w30, valvoline 5w30, Schaeffers 9000 5w30, and penzoil platinum 5w30. Currently running mobile 1 5w20. None have made any difference.

 

[Rod Knock]

Carquest synthetic 5w20, mobile 1 5w20 and 5w30, valvoline 5w30, Schaeffers 9000 5w30, and penzoil platinum 5w30. Currently running mobile 1 5w20. None have made any difference.

And none ever will. They're all min-spec ILSAC oils. They are primarily formulated with as many friction reducers as they can get into them, so they're low on everything else. They are meant primarily for fuel-efficiency.

If you don't have time for what I suggested, cleaning-wise, then (and I think @Burla will agree) hop on to Amazon.com and order two gallons of RedLine 5W-30 and a Royal Purple 20-820 oil filter and change your oil. It will take a few hundred miles for the polyester to clean your engine. Yes, it cleans it, it doesn't coat it. That Red Line 5W-30 is an ACEA A3/B4 oil chock-full of detergents and anti-wear additives. If it doesn't get rid of your tick in 1000 miles then nothing ever will. However, if it does, and you don't want to spend money on it going forward, then on your next oil change switch to a good full-SAPS Euro lube. For the HEMI, my favorite is Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, however, there is Pennzoil Platinum 0W-40/5W-40, Quaker State Euro 5W-40, Castrol EDGE Euro 5W-30, 0W-40, and 5W-40 (they're all very close in formulation and viscosity wise). None of the oils are mentioned are thin anemic fuel economy oils. They will withstand contaminants, abuse, and bad gasoline. ACEA A3/B4 lubes are formulated differently than ILSAC fuel economy oils, they have a minimum HTHS of 3.5, where your typical 5W-20 is 2.6, while your ILSAC 5W-30 is 2.9~3.0, some are 3.2, but still less than the optimal for wear protection 3.5.

That's about the cheapest and fastest solution I can recommend so you waste the minimum amount of money and time. Don't waste your time with common ILSAC oils, they're all formulated very similarly and fuel economy is their main goal at the expense of wear protection and performance.

 

[dkelly3103]

And none ever will. They're all min-spec ILSAC oils. They are primarily formulated with as many friction reducers as they can get into them, so they're low on everything else. They are meant primarily for fuel-efficiency.

If you don't have time for what I suggested, cleaning-wise, then (and I think @Burla will agree) hop on to Amazon.com and order two gallons of RedLine 5W-30 and a Royal Purple 20-820 oil filter and change your oil. It will take a few hundred miles for the polyester to clean your engine. Yes, it cleans it, it doesn't coat it. That Red Line 5W-30 is an ACEA A3/B4 oil chock-full of detergents and anti-wear additives. If it doesn't get rid of your tick in 1000 miles then nothing ever will. However, if it does, and you don't want to spend money on it going forward, then on your next oil change switch to a good full-SAPS Euro lube. For the HEMI, my favorite is Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, however, there is Pennzoil Platinum 0W-40/5W-40, Quaker State Euro 5W-40, Castrol EDGE Euro 5W-30, 0W-40, and 5W-40 (they're all very close in formulation and viscosity wise). None of the oils are mentioned are thin anemic fuel economy oils. They will withstand contaminants, abuse, and bad gasoline. ACEA A3/B4 lubes are formulated differently than ILSAC fuel economy oils, they have a minimum HTHS of 3.5, where your typical 5W-20 is 2.6, while your ILSAC 5W-30 is 2.9~3.0, some are 3.2, but still less than the optimal for wear protection 3.5.

That's about the cheapest and fastest solution I can recommend so you waste the minimum amount of money and time. Don't waste your time with common ILSAC oils, they're all formulated very similarly and fuel economy is their main goal at the expense of wear protection and performance.

I was planning on ordering redline and trying it once i got the oil test results back but based on what you’ve said i won’t be able to tell much from the test. From a cost perspective, do you think I would see similar results by just dumping the mobile 1 5w20 I’m running right now and trying one of the 0w40 you recommended? Or would I need to do the process you mentioned earlier with a engine cleaner to see any results?

 

[Rod Knock]

I was planning on ordering redline and trying it once i got the oil test results back but based on what you’ve said i won’t be able to tell much from the test. From a cost perspective, do you think I would see similar results by just dumping the mobile 1 5w20 I’m running right now and trying one of the 0w40 you recommended? Or would I need to do the process you mentioned earlier with a engine cleaner to see any results?

I would just go with the RedLine 5W-30 because it will clean your internals much faster. Motor oil isn't really meant for cleaning, it's only meant to *keep clean*. RedLine is a bit different, as it contains a high concentration of polyol ester. It's a unique oil. It cleaned my HEMI spotless in 3000+ miles. Then I went to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. I'm going to travel up north in a bit, and I wanted something with a better cold flow. It was either M1 FS 0W-40, of which I have 60 quarts or buy more RedLine 0W-30. So, just go with the RedLine 5W-30, it will be the shortest path to results.

I just replaced a valve cover seal, take a look at it, at 40K miles it looks like new.





After this, I did another cleaning with Liqui Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush. My HEMI is spotless inside, and I intend keeping it that way.

 

[Rod Knock]

@dkelly3103 forgot to mention the brown oil that you see at the bottom of the sparkplug holes. That's RedLine 5W-30.

 

[Burla]

could be warped mani as well

 

[Burla]

analysis will hint at wear issues but it isnt 100% on this.

 

[Rod Knock]

could be warped mani as well

I just had that on the passenger side and it made a tick for about a minute or two after startup, then a faint tick at higher RPM. I everything with brand new parts, all original parts, except for the gasket, which is Fel Pro, probably the same manufacturer as OEM. No more tick. His truck is quite a startup, he has a hot idle tick.

analysis will hint at wear issues but it isnt 100% on this.

Oil analysis is designed to show you the condition of the oil. I even know how it can be skewed to hide Iron (with magnets), but that's beside the point. If you steer this man in the wrong direction just for the sake of proving me wrong, you'll have his engine on your conscience. I'm just trying to help him. I'm sorry I argued with you in the past, I was just trying to figure out how these engines fail. It's not very common for valvetrains to wear out/fail before rod or main bearings, for example, except for the HEMI. The Hyundai Theta II 2.4L engine, once oil is diluted enough with fuel, will cause at least one rod bearing seizes on the crankshaft and causes the rod to exit through the block. I've seen plenty of these engines in our local Hyundai dealership. I got one at home and I run thicker oil in it (Castrol EDGE 0W-40). In 39K miles no issues so far.

He clearly said he doesn't have time/money for a repair right now, or to perform elaborate engine cleaning, so the next best thing is to try RedLine 5W-30.