Hemi cam & lifter issues—does Uncle Tony have a point?

[GIJoe2010]

^^^^^ the master has spoken.

I like this idea of 2 qts race oil and 5 of whatever. I think I may try that out in 5000 miles when I change my oil next . . . to bad this wasn’t brought to my attention a week ago when I did my last oil change, oh well.

 

[pacofortacos]

I am only planning on using up to 1 qt. racing per oil change depending on the rest of my oil combo.
It will most likely be 1/2-1 qt. racing oil, 1-1/2 qt. Redline 0w-30 (Red gallon jug) and the rest probably 5w-20 PP and the oil and filter will be changed at about every 4-6k miles depending on load.

For ex. my one trip is towing about a 5000 lb boat/trailer with loaded bed from PA to FL keys round trip at highway speeds in one week in the middle of the summer - after that change the oil.
The truck is used almost exclusively for highway trips and is either pretty fully loaded in the bed or a full bed and towing.

I think I like the idea of a little added wear protection under those circumstances. I don't have a tick so, I am not trying to cure any problem. And I can't run more than 3 qts or so of 5w-30 or I get a buck/bang/backfire type issue on initial cold startup - which I am pretty convinced is the VVT cam sweep. I do know that it is oil weight related though because it never has done it with 5w-20 or a light 0w-30/5w-20 mix.

 

[Burla]

I like it, I can't believe more people haven't tried adding one qrt of redline as an additive. There are all kinds of strategies like adding PUP 0w40 to get moly, there are way more arguments for running redline 5w30 in that spot, but yet a lot of guys mix PUP 0w40 in their oil but not redline.

 

[Dr. Righteous]

The biggest issue I found wit Uncle Tony's (Tony Defeo for those who use to read MoPar magazines) explanation that "idling will kill the cam" is the fact that thousands of police cruisers run the 5.7 and police cars spend A LOT of time sitting idling. Sometimes several hours a day. You would see police departments abandoning Chargers as police cruisers because of engine failures across the country. That just isn't the case.
Second ; a popular mod for those who like to race the 5.7 hemi is to "cam it up". That is a high lift cam, high spring pressures, etc, etc.
If the oiling was so bad this combination would self destruct in no time. I don't see that happening either.
Could the oiling be better? Yes, no question. But in my opinion I think we still have a parts issue. The rollers tend to fail on the roller tappet and this wipes the cam out.

 

[Brandon-w]

The biggest issue I found wit Uncle Tony's (Tony Defeo for those who use to read MoPar magazines) explanation that "idling will kill the cam" is the fact that thousands of police cruisers run the 5.7 and police cars spend A LOT of time sitting idling. Sometimes several hours a day. You would see police departments abandoning Chargers as police cruisers because of engine failures across the country. That just isn't the case.
Second ; a popular mod for those who like to race the 5.7 hemi is to "cam it up". That is a high lift cam, high spring pressures, etc, etc.
If the oiling was so bad this combination would self destruct in no time. I don't see that happening either.
Could the oiling be better? Yes, no question. But in my opinion I think we still have a parts issue. The rollers tend to fail on the roller and this wipes the cam out.

You may have a point there but these police cars also see high rpms for longer periods of time chasing down people than most people's hemis see so I think that may also have a life saving factor to it as well. I mean half these guys don't idle for hours and then just hop on the freeway and mash the throttle. Cop cars are just treated like flogged rental cars.

 

[69GWC]

The biggest issue I found wit Uncle Tony's (Tony Defeo for those who use to read MoPar magazines) explanation that "idling will kill the cam" is the fact that thousands of police cruisers run the 5.7 and police cars spend A LOT of time sitting idling. Sometimes several hours a day. You would see police departments abandoning Chargers as police cruisers because of engine failures across the country. That just isn't the case.
Second ; a popular mod for those who like to race the 5.7 hemi is to "cam it up". That is a high lift cam, high spring pressures, etc, etc.
If the oiling was so bad this combination would self destruct in no time. I don't see that happening either.
Could the oiling be better? Yes, no question. But in my opinion I think we still have a parts issue. The rollers tend to fail on the roller and this wipes the cam out.

I talked to the Sheriff of our town acouple years back and they infact were getting rid of all there Chargers because of cam failures and he told me the other town south of me was doing the same.
Said everyone they had has had cam failures and in most cases had to have the motor replaced because of it.

I have read many other people say similar comments and the only chargers I see anymore are hwy patrol cars.

So I agree with the theory that these motors do a poor job of oiling the lifters and cam at idle.

 

[Clark Kent]

I talked to the Sheriff of our town acouple years back and they infact were getting rid of all there Chargers because of cam failures and he told me the other town south of me was doing the same.
Said everyone they had has had cam failures and in most cases had to have the motor replaced because of it.

I have read many other people say similar comments and the only chargers I see anymore are hwy patrol cars.

So I agree with the theory that these motors do a poor job of oiling the lifters and cam at idle.

I was curious about that. I assumed police vehicles would like be the worse case for idle hours on an engine. When the charger came out it seemed like a lot of departments switched over to them. Then several years later, those same departments seem to dump them for a different make/model. At the time, I heard issues with front end parts.

My 5.7's were always tick free (besides broken exhaust studs), but this 6.4 I bought new last year has ticked since day one. I missed it on the test drive and only noticed it a several days later when I rolled down the windows for the first time. Being ignorant of what hemi tick was, I thought it was an exhaust leak or a flapper valve I read about in the exhaust. If I had noticed it during the test drive I probably would have opted for a cummins instead. I missed my old pre-emissions powerstroke grunt and wanted another diesel. However, when I ran the numbers cummins vs 6.4 mpg/cost, the 6.4 for me was the cheaper option to fuel per year. I have a short 7 mile commute to and from work with a lot of stops. Between that and the initial purchase price, I had committed myself to the 6.4 as I couldn't justify the extra initial cost of the cummins, higher yearly fuel costs, and maintenance.

Right now, I'm 300 miles into using redline on a 10k mile truck. The tick is there, but it's quiet down some. I checked yesterday, my gauge had about 49 hrs of idle time already. I think from here on out, I'll use the remote start less.

 

[Dr. Righteous]

I talked to the Sheriff of our town a couple years back and they in fact were getting rid of all there Chargers because of cam failures and he told me the other town south of me was doing the same.
Said everyone they had has had cam failures and in most cases had to have the motor replaced because of it. I have read many other people say similar comments and the only chargers I see anymore are hwy patrol cars. So I agree with the theory that these motors do a poor job of oiling the lifters and cam at idle.

I will have to say this is the first time I've heard of police departments having these same troubles. You said a "couple years ago" wonder if we can identify which years these were failing in.

No doubt FCA knows about the issue and they are trying to fix it.

 

[69GWC]

I will have to say this is the first time I've heard of police departments having these same troubles. You said a "couple years ago" wonder if we can identify which years these were failing in.

No doubt FCA knows about the issue and they are trying to fix it.

I could not get a hole lot of info on it as the Sheriff did not seem to care to go into to many details but It was in 2017 at some point.
They have Explorers and Chevys now.

 

[cyco]

Absolutely!!! If you can't getting enough oil deflection you kill cams.. One of the main reasons when I was working in the engine shop why We turned up the stationary Chev 350 engines up from 1800 to 2200 rpm. They'd eat cams Given they were prone to wear being solid tappet not roller but still oil is life or death. Another member pointed out on here a week ago with this video and was curious if one were to drill very small Holes in the oil galley that is blocking the cam from getting oil if it would feed a nice mist of oil to the cam and save it from failure. Seems like a simple Solution. Had I known this in November when I did my cam I likely wouldx have tried it.

 

[cyco]

think I will get rid my 2019 laraime before I have problems and cannot get anything for it $71000 mistake

 

[scott lass 18]

this is what I was saying long ago not enough oil on lifters and bad lifters get wipes out seen when a oil pump goes out and old like 180 miles on my chevy so yes glad some one shows this like dodge computer set up bad too doesn't react fast enough I ve seen too !

 

[69GWC]

think I will get rid my 2019 laraime before I have problems and cannot get anything for it $71000 mistake

The thing is alot of trucks never have a problem, hopefully. No idling for any lenght of time and running a oil like 5w30 Redline is protecting the motor enough the problems slow down .
My motor has been whisper quiet since day one but I am doing what I cant to protect it.

 

[Dr. Righteous]

Been doing some digging. There is a aftermarket manufacturer that offers pin oiling lifters. American made, but they seem to be expensive.
This would be some insurance to insure a long life motor.
Either this or a alternative oiling scheme for the cam/lifters. Nothing radical about modding the oiling system on a engine. Very old racers trick.

https://johnsonlifters.com/

Model 2356. But pricing I see on their website is almost $1000 for a set. Yikes. Consider that a good set of lifters are usually 20 bux each or $320.00

 

[Wild one]

Been doing some digging. There is a aftermarket manufacturer that offers pin oiling lifters. American made, but they seem to be expensive.
This would be some insurance to insure a long life motor.
Either this or a alternative oiling scheme for the cam/lifters. Nothing radical about modding the oiling system on a engine. Very old racers trick.

https://johnsonlifters.com/

Model 2356. But pricing I see on their website is almost $1000 for a set. Yikes. Consider that a good set of lifters are usually 20 bux each or $320.00

The Johnson lifters are being used by a few guys on the facebook pages,but a lot of them are also stepping up to either the Melling oil pump or the Hellcat oil pump to offset the pressure loss .

 

[gofishn]

think I will get rid my 2019 laraime before I have problems and cannot get anything for it $71000 mistake

Probably should.
I will give you $20K for it.
Assuming it still looks new and runs great and has less than 5K miles
I know, pretty stupid of me but I am a Dodge fanboy and have a Mechanic SIL.

Think of it, like this, most pay to go to University , to get an Education.
You just got an Education in Ram Trucks.
as we all know, Educations cost money.

Better take advantage of me before I come to my senses.

 

[bran101010]

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[Wild one]

My wife's 2014 jeep srt just ate the lifters and cam if it makes you feel better. Only 111,000 miles.

Make sure you hang onto the torque convertor in that Jeep.The SRT Jeeps from 14 to 16 use a higher stall convertor then the later 6.4 Jeeps do. As far as I can tell the 1320 Challengers use a very similar convertor as the early 6.4 SRT Jeeps used

 

[Dr. Righteous]

The Johnson lifters are being used by a few guys on the facebook pages,but a lot of them are also stepping up to either the Melling oil pump or the Hellcat oil pump to offset the pressure loss .

Yeah, that wouldn't be a bad idea. I would like to know the actual street price for a set of Johnson lifters for these. The pricing on the Johnson website was beyond outrageous. Can't be accurate.

For someone that builds old cars that wants an engine upgrade; the 3rd Gen hemi is hard to beat. The low speed oiling issue can be overcome with mods. I have a '72 Plymouth Satellite Sebring Plus that has been in storage for over a decade waiting for a restoration. The factory 318 weights about the same as a 3rd gen Hemi give or take a few pounds. The old way of "hot rodding" was to swap in a big block. This added 200 lbs to the front of the car. The prohibiting factor use to be making the electronics work but that can be solved with a kit now. The whole car weights about 3400 lbs. A newer Challenger at its lightest is 3800 and up to almost 4200 lbs. A Charger around 4000 to 4500. A typical RAM 1500 is 4500 to 5700 depending on how equipped. (newer vehicle weighs are for 2014) .
Considering all this a MILD gen3 hemi would offer great performance and great fuel economy. I like to take trips and really enjoy the drive. And doing so in a cool car that draws a crowd when you stop for gas is a real trip.
I'm going to get back to that kind of thing before I get too old and broken down to turn wrenches and pull engines.

 

[bran101010]

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