Lifter failure!

[Burla]

Thanks for all the great information! Redline 5w-30 is where I will be going next. Is redline 0w40 as good considering Ram recommends 0w40?

 

[Burla]

Thanks for all the great information! Redline 5w-30 is where I will be going next. Is redline 0w40 as good considering Ram recommends 0w40?

No, 5w30 redline is better at cold performance then 0w40 redline throughout the interval, it is thicker then the fca recommended oil throughout it's interval, has way less vii's then 0w40 so it is more stable and less useless molecules rolling around.

0w40 excels over 5w30 in one area, protection if towing and the engine is working really hard. It is a very thick 0w40, almost too thick.

 

[dmillar74]

You sure the knock wasn't piston slap.......piston slap is louder on cold starts......some go away as engine warms......some just make less noise
5w30 Redline is what everyone runs in the less colder climate in the 5.7 & 6.4
Some have had better luck with 0w30 on piston slap/tick up north

The current noise could be it is sounded so familiar to the other times where they said the lifters were shot. I'm in Michigan. I wonder if 5w-30 will cause more piston slap than 0w40?

 

[AJNY]

I had an 09 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7. That engine never ticked. What happened between 09 and 2018-2021?

 

[Burla]

The current noise could be it is sounded so familiar to the other times where they said the lifters were shot. I'm in Michigan. I wonder if 5w-30 will cause more piston slap than 0w40?

Depends, when 0w40 is in use it looses it's cold performance rapidly because what makes it 0w40 is very temporary additives that degrade in combustion. 0w30 can be very hearty as in high operating viscosity and more stable then 0w40, due to the swing winter rating to weight. Whatever works, sometimes guys in the cold have to try and see what works. Pay attention to the entire interval, if you think 0w40 PUP is a good choice for the 6.4, well redline 0w30 will be thicker at the end of an interval and always be better in the cold. This is the official fca oilfor the 6.4, note the viscosity as low as 4500 interval. All 3 intervals and the oil is in the 11's, you cold expect redline 0w30 to be the same at this interval, maybe even a little thicker. 0w30 redline would be way better then other choices at cold piston slap, and still maintain viscosity better then 0w40 in use. Corey who has hemi tick that 5w30 cures but he piston slaps on that weight, uses 0w30 it kills hemi tick and cold piston slap. things to consider and try if you don't like the result on whatever you are trying.

 

[Captain Bart]

Thanks for your wisdom Burla. My situation is : '14 1500 with 115K. Quiet as a mouse. Changed oil = Mobil 1 FS 5W-20, and Napa PRO......in May '20. Dash meter @ 7500 mi. = change. I switched to RL 5W-20, same filter........3 weeks ago. The tick was almost instant/within a week or so. While it would certainly be a coincidence that a manifold bolt, right after an oil change.....however, I fully intend to check that out.

When sitting in Park, nothing? In gear and it ticks as the truck begins to roll out of the driveway. Any additves to try? Change back to Mobil 1.....right now.?

 

[Burla]

Thanks for your wisdom Burla. My situation is : '14 1500 with 115K. Quiet as a mouse. Changed oil = Mobil 1 FS 5W-20, and Napa PRO......in May '20. Dash meter @ 7500 mi. = change. I switched to RL 5W-20, same filter........3 weeks ago. The tick was almost instant/within a week or so. While it would certainly be a coincidence that a manifold bolt, right after an oil change.....however, I fully intend to check that out.

When sitting in Park, nothing? In gear and it ticks as the truck begins to roll out of the driveway. Any additves to try? Change back to Mobil 1.....right now.?

It has been long known here that high mileage trucks can have issues with redline, I wish we had a thread that summarized all of the facts of running this strategy sometimes. Redline has been known to hyper clean, esters by themselves are every powerful cleaners, some engine sludge cleaners are simply esters, plus you also have high detergency. Why I haven't recommended switching to redline late in the game unless you have tick, and then know the risks with trucks starting this at over 75k miles.

Here's the thing, if it hyper cleaned a nice film that was there keeping that engine quiet and cushioned, the real play would be to leave it alone and see if redline's formula repopulates the film. The second issue with the mileage you have and starting late in the game is your choice of 5w20, so that is very thin and doesn't populate like 5w30 redline, plus tolerances are sure widened at this point. I'm sure the last thing you want to do is change to 5w30 redline, I would however consider dumping two quarts and putting back 2 quarts redline 5w40 to get visc up a bit. Use a forum phone call " @Burla " if you can upload a youtube for a listen, or need more clarification. At least 3 other rams with high mileage have had this happen, sadly we don't know the outcomes, I don't recall any follow up, so I hope you follow up. The question becomes is will the film repopulate itself and fill gaps or widened tolerances. There are some additives that can do this, but they all have large downsides, last resort moves. They can gel oil in the sump or thicken oil to very high numbers, both undesirable imo.

 

[Burla]

And yes for sure, check the manifold bolts. If you do try the 2 quarts 5w40, if it is indeed the engine and not mani, you would expect some kind of change to the sound. Also, did you check oil level on dipstick, sometimes it can be that simple, but for me I have buzzards luck, so it would always be something worse.

 

[Hemi832]

was it constantly making that noise or what that when first starting and then it goes away?

I thought it was a exhaust leak at first then I could hear the metal on metal. I had all lifters and cam replaced under warranty. Once it started did not go away.

 

[Captain Bart]

It has been long known here that high mileage trucks can have issues with redline, I wish we had a thread that summarized all of the facts of running this strategy sometimes. Redline has been known to hyper clean, esters by themselves are every powerful cleaners, some engine sludge cleaners are simply esters, plus you also have high detergency. Why I haven't recommended switching to redline late in the game unless you have tick, and then know the risks with trucks starting this at over 75k miles.

Here's the thing, if it hyper cleaned a nice film that was there keeping that engine quiet and cushioned, the real play would be to leave it alone and see if redline's formula repopulates the film. The second issue with the mileage you have and starting late in the game is your choice of 5w20, so that is very thin and doesn't populate like 5w30 redline, plus tolerances are sure widened at this point. I'm sure the last thing you want to do is change to 5w30 redline, I would however consider dumping two quarts and putting back 2 quarts redline 5w40 to get visc up a bit. Use a forum phone call " @Burla " if you can upload a youtube for a listen, or need more clarification. At least 3 other rams with high mileage have had this happen, sadly we don't know the outcomes, I don't recall any follow up, so I hope you follow up. The question becomes is will the film repopulate itself and fill gaps or widened tolerances. There are some additives that can do this, but they all have large downsides, last resort moves. They can gel oil in the sump or thicken oil to very high numbers, both undesirable imo.

 

[Captain Bart]

I switched from 5W-20 M1 to Redline 5W-20 because it was to go to oil as per this forum. Never read any warnings about hi mileage. So why not just dump it and go to 5W-30? Adding a couple of qts. of 5W-40? Not sure about that? If I am getting all the oil change gear out, not much point in stopping mid-change.

Re-populating the "film" should be immediate, not a process over weeks. Its just oil. I also understand that 5W-30 can create issues with the engagement of MDS/ECO mode. I really could car less; I drive 30 miles a week. I simply want to get the noise resolved. Losing the ECO, fuel sipping mode is not an issue for me.

If its an exhaust leak.......can anyone tell me if having the manifold(s) removed, new bolts and gaskets installed.....worth the money? I would never go with ghee-wiz headers, planing manifolds, etc. If its a short term fix, I'd get out of the truck, and go lease a new one.

Maybe thats what has already happened, as I bought it with 98K 2 yrs. ago, and am at 114K now. Until I re-reconnoiter the exhaust leak theory, I'll leave the drain pan under the porch...............again, I speak for countless forum members when I say, Thank You, for your interest and comments.

PS: Is there a thread about exhaust manifold repair?

 

[Burla]

I switched from 5W-20 M1 to Redline 5W-20 because it was to go to oil as per this forum. Never read any warnings about hi mileage. So why not just dump it and go to 5W-30? Adding a couple of qts. of 5W-40? Not sure about that? If I am getting all the oil change gear out, not much point in stopping mid-change.

Re-populating the "film" should be immediate, not a process over weeks. Its just oil. I also understand that 5W-30 can create issues with the engagement of MDS/ECO mode. I really could car less; I drive 30 miles a week. I simply want to get the noise resolved. Losing the ECO, fuel sipping mode is not an issue for me.

If its an exhaust leak.......can anyone tell me if having the manifold(s) removed, new bolts and gaskets installed.....worth the money? I would never go with ghee-wiz headers, planing manifolds, etc. If its a short term fix, I'd get out of the truck, and go lease a new one.

Maybe thats what has already happened, as I bought it with 98K 2 yrs. ago, and am at 114K now. Until I re-reconnoiter the exhaust leak theory, I'll leave the drain pan under the porch...............again, I speak for countless forum members when I say, Thank You, for your interest and comments.

PS: Is there a thread about exhaust manifold repair?

5w20 is a very stable base, so mixing 5w40 to increase viscosity is a very safe way to do it to save you some dollars. 5w20 redline has no vii's per dave at redline, so it is mixable if you chose to save money to increase visc. If you were to go to 5w30 redline, there goes at least 80 bucks. If you were wanting to get off the redline bus, yeah go for it, maybe look at HM oils.

So the science of AW/EP additives and differing base oils esters and branch chained PAO are not immediate film population, especially in tick situations. Sorry about not getting a warning on high mileage, I do this several times a month when asked, and never openly say redline in a high mileage engine is a no risk move. Redline competes for that metal surface, thus why it kills so many ticks here, however it is a risk in high mileage engines because it takes time for the engine to go quiet, and in a few cases it wont get there.

I get the desire to say it's just oil, but indeed as fact all you did was go from a 5w20 to another 5w20 so why would it tick? Especially considering the redline has so much protection in the formula. M1 is nowhere near as hearty oil as redline, not the base oil and certainly not the low additives. So if it is "just oil" this wouldn't have happened. This tick is not redline somehow being "thinner" then m1, thus allowing for some ticking, it is a saturated base oil with heavy cleaners.

How many miles so far on redline 5w20? What are you thinking of doing, just going back to 5w30 m1? The 20 weight for mds is a myth, ignore it. Especially in aging trucks.

 

[Burla]

So read this.

Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.

The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.

This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance.


I can tell you this process takes up to 1k miles, most take 500 miles, mine took 500 miles, then the truck went silent. If you have less then 1k miles, I suggest you wait it out. Redline has 8 times more moly then m1.

 

[tones2SS]

So i dropped the truck off yesterday, went through the issues with the service department and left it with them. Today i got a call with the typical could not duplicate the noise, everything is good. So i went to pick it up and lone behold they bring it around and as soon as i walk outside i can here that tapping/knocking noise. I go back and grab the tech and he comes out and almost instantly says lifter failure.

I could hear it as soon as i opened the service department door and stepped outside, not sure if he was a tech but the guy pulling it up jumped out and said everything is good to go.....i said really it doesn't sound like it.

LOL
Mannnn,....some of the morons that these dealerships hire. lol Scary stuff.
You would think that they would have a better vetting process?? Scary.

 

[EdGs]

......If its an exhaust leak.......can anyone tell me if having the manifold(s) removed, new bolts and gaskets installed.....worth the money? I would never go with ghee-wiz headers, planing manifolds, etc. If its a short term fix, I'd get out of the truck, and go lease a new one.

Maybe thats what has already happened, as I bought it with 98K 2 yrs. ago, and am at 114K now. Until I re-reconnoiter the exhaust leak theory, I'll leave the drain pan under the porch...............again, I speak for countless forum members when I say, Thank You, for your interest and comments.

PS: Is there a thread about exhaust manifold repair?

Reach in through the wheel wells and see if the rear corners of the heat shields are loose. If they are, feel underneath the shield and see if you can feel any of the bolt attached to the shield.If it's just the head of the stud, then you still should have a stub sticking out. This will be simple to remove and replace.

If the bolts break flush at the manifold, then the welding a nut to the end of the broken stud is the way to go.

If you do not have the original manifolds milled/sanded flat, or if you replace with new OE manifolds, odds are that they will break again down the road.

There are numerous threads throughout this forum for this repair, but if you know a good shop, they should be able to repair this reasonably for you.

Best of luck if this ends up being your issue.

 

[LuFc92]

LOL
Mannnn,....some of the morons that these dealerships hire. lol Scary stuff.
You would think that they would have a better vetting process?? Scary.

They couldn't duplicate the sound but as soon as i turn up it magically appeared for all to hear haha.

 

[tones2SS]

They couldn't duplicate the sound but as soon as i turn up it magically appeared for all to hear haha.

LOL
Yeah,......funny how that happens. ******* morons. lol

 

[Truck4Fun]

If its an exhaust leak.......can anyone tell me if having the manifold(s) removed, new bolts and gaskets installed.....worth the money?

Well, here is the rub with that: the factory exhaust manifolds are cheap. So you will replace the gaskets and bolts and be fine for a while, but then it will happen again. Well, why? - You might ask. Well, because the exhaust manifolds are not properly manufactured and deform during the thermal cycles. A good aftermarket option is to get a pair of JBA or Kook's headers. Neither option is cheap, but JBA is the cheaper one out of the two. Install them with factory gaskets and get a set of Grade 8 bolts. You're looking at close to a $1000 in parts, $2000 if you get the Kook's headers. Now, is it worth it? Well, it's worth it if you never want to deal with this issue again.

The 5.7 HEMI shares the VVT and lifters with the 6.4 HEMI. You will not run into any issues if you run a thicker oil.

As for how broken exhaust bolts sound vs. bad lifters: you start your truck, and you hear a ticking noise. It should go away anywhere between half a minute up to a minute, depending on how cold it's outside. If it sounds the same after running the truck for a while, or you just took it on a drive and you still have a hot idle tick, that's also present when you rev the engine, then you got one or more bad lifters.

 

[Captain Bart]

The drivers side heat shield is flopping. I can slide it back and forth with ease. IF this a definite sign that the manifold bolt(s) have failed, that would explain the leak/click/tick sound. I have had dozens of cars with headers over the years, and an exhaust leak is pronounced.

I assumed it was the oil change that brought the noise on. Now, I need to find someone who can do the repair.......

 

[Burla]

The drivers side heat shield is flopping. I can slide it back and forth with ease. IF this a definite sign that the manifold bolt(s) have failed, that would explain the leak/click/tick sound. I have had dozens of cars with headers over the years, and an exhaust leak is pronounced.

I assumed it was the oil change that brought the noise on. Now, I need to find someone who can do the repair.......

glad you found it, that is the hemi tick lotto right there, better it isnt lifters.