E-torque Removal

[Docwagon1776]

If you're sticking a 6.4 in a e-torque truck,you still have to contend with removing it ,just replacing the engine,doesn't delete the e-torque system.

Admittedly, maybe I'm missing something. A tune is required either way, so that's a wash. The 6.4 is non etorque from the start and obviously you'll need the alternator and accessories from a 6.4 truck as well. So what else is required? And why would I not do that vs paying $8500 for whatever nebulous benefit removing etorque would provide?

 

[Wild one]

Admittedly, maybe I'm missing something. A tune is required either way, so that's a wash. The 6.4 is non etorque from the start and obviously you'll need the alternator and accessories from a 6.4 truck as well. So what else is required? And why would I not do that vs paying $8500 for whatever nebulous benefit removing etorque would provide?

That's a question you should ask Richard Campbell,as i'm not sure what all is required or deleted to get rid of the E-torque system. Let us know what he says about the costs involved over and above just the 6.4 swap.

 

[Wild one]

Went to his site and found this,and it looks like there's a bit to deleting it off a 5.7.


Richard Campbell replied to his own comment: "Kalani Lagao it’s entire engine harness change .. front timing cover .. water pump and all other front accessories.. because the non et set up isn’t an 8 groove belt drive system so it all has to be changed .. then the ac charged .. harmonic balancer is different .. then it needs programmed and tuned to make the alternator charge and tell the ET system it’s no longer be active and no longer has start stop"

 

[Sandevino]

Went to his site and found this,and it looks like there's a bit to deleting it off a 5.7.


Richard Campbell View attachment 575736 replied to his own comment: "Kalani Lagao it’s entire engine harness change .. front timing cover .. water pump and all other front accessories.. because the non et set up isn’t an 8 groove belt drive system so it all has to be changed .. then the ac charged .. harmonic balancer is different .. then it needs programmed and tuned to make the alternator charge and tell the ET system it’s no longer be active and no longer has start stop"

This makes the $8500 make sense as this is labor intensive. It’s great to see someone has cracked the GPEC-5 PCM.

I keep my vehicles but I can’t say I’d drop $8500 on a mass production vehicle to change the charging system when other older examples are available.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Went to his site and found this,and it looks like there's a bit to deleting it off a 5.7.


Richard Campbell View attachment 575736 replied to his own comment: "Kalani Lagao it’s entire engine harness change .. front timing cover .. water pump and all other front accessories.. because the non et set up isn’t an 8 groove belt drive system so it all has to be changed .. then the ac charged .. harmonic balancer is different .. then it needs programmed and tuned to make the alternator charge and tell the ET system it’s no longer be active and no longer has start stop"

Seems in line with what I said. You'd need the accessories from a 6.4L truck to do a 6.4L swap anyway, so that's a wash as well.

Mechanically, etorque isn't integrated with anything past the motor and accessory drive. Well, it's secondary battery I suppose, but it's only purpose is stop/start and removing etorque you're probably not going to bother to try and make the "new build" truck have stop/start and will tune that out as well.

Tuning wise, I'm not sure if you'd need to do anything with the transmission or not as etorque briefly kicks in to help smooth shifts but I don't know if the transmission tuning itself is any different as a result. I suspect it is not, but that's well past my knowledge level.

I get there's a lot to it. I just don't see it as an $8500 worth of difference to delete it. If I'm that deep in the checkbook I'm going a bit deeper and doing a 6.4L swap. Academic for me, though, I don't and won't own an etorque Ram. Frankly I doubt I ever own another half ton Ram, period.

 

[Wild one]

Seems in line with what I said. You'd need the accessories from a 6.4L truck to do a 6.4L swap anyway, so that's a wash as well.

Mechanically, etorque isn't integrated with anything past the motor and accessory drive. Well, it's secondary battery I suppose, but it's only purpose is stop/start and removing etorque you're probably not going to bother to try and make the "new build" truck have stop/start and will tune that out as well.

Tuning wise, I'm not sure if you'd need to do anything with the transmission or not as etorque briefly kicks in to help smooth shifts but I don't know if the transmission tuning itself is any different as a result. I suspect it is not, but that's well past my knowledge level.

I get there's a lot to it. I just don't see it as an $8500 worth of difference to delete it. If I'm that deep in the checkbook I'm going a bit deeper and doing a 6.4L swap. Academic for me, though, I don't and won't own an etorque Ram. Frankly I doubt I ever own another half ton Ram, period.

You'd need the 5.7 timing cover and front accessories as they're differant from the 6.4's front drive,so you're still buying the 5.7 timing cover/pulleys/tensioners etc,and it looks like you need the complete engine wiring harness to. The 6.4 doesn't just fall in,if you still want to delete the e-torque.You're still replacing a fair bit on the 6.4. The transmission tune can be addressed when it's tuned,as i'm guessing he's using HP as his tuning platform,so you'd just need the extra 4 credits to tune the transmission. Pretty well everything he does to delete it off the 5.7,is also going to have to be done to a 6.4 swap.So you're still looking at the $8500 cost,over and above what the 6.4 will set you back

 

[mikeru]

Glad to see that someone finally offers this but that’s a steep price to pay. Might be worth it for someone who’s factory warranty has expired and has suffered an etorque failure. And doesn’t want to wait months on replacement MGU or 48v battery module.

 

[Docwagon1776]

You'd need the 5.7 timing cover and front accessories as they're differant from the 6.4's front drive,so you're still buying the 5.7 timing cover/pulleys/tensioners etc,and it looks like you need the complete engine wiring harness to. The 6.4 doesn't just fall in,if you still want to delete the e-torque.You're still replacing a fair bit on the 6.4. The transmission tune can be addressed when it's tuned,as i'm guessing he's using HP as his tuning platform,so you'd just need the extra 4 credits to tune the transmission. Pretty well everything he does to delete it off the 5.7,is also going to have to be done to a 6.4 swap.So you're still looking at the $8500 cost,over and above what the 6.4 will set you back

Rubitrux does 3.6L etorque to 6.4L swaps for Jeeps, though they are using SRT engines and not BGEs. They just remove the etorque, per them. It's about $8k more than their 425hp 5.7L swap.

Aussie company is doing 5.7L etorque to 6.4 in Rams for the equivalent of $12k USD. (I don't know install costs, but this includes a crate motor)

https://dontexperformance.com/products/ds-dt-ram-6-4-engine-swap

A wilder build: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C37ZPYHxfmV/

I get it's going to be more money. I'm just saying *for me* I don't see the point in spending that kind of money to remove etorque alone. If it's broken, I'd just source salvage yard parts and fix it on the cheap *or* spend the money to have something out the other end other than a non-etorque-but-otherwise-the-same 5.7L. If it's not broken, I sure AF wouldn't spend that kind of money as some sort of preventative step. If someone wants that middle ground for whatever reason or sees this as an $8500 value, it's their wallet and truck. I just hope it comes with a sticker so they get some HP out of it, at least.

 

[Wild one]

Rubitrux does 3.6L etorque to 6.4L swaps for Jeeps, though they are using SRT engines and not BGEs. They just remove the etorque, per them. It's about $8k more than their 425hp 5.7L swap.

Aussie company is doing 5.7L etorque to 6.4 in Rams for the equivalent of $12k USD. (I don't know install costs, but this includes a crate motor)

https://dontexperformance.com/products/ds-dt-ram-6-4-engine-swap

A wilder build: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C37ZPYHxfmV/

I get it's going to be more money. I'm just saying *for me* I don't see the point in spending that kind of money to remove etorque alone. If it's broken, I'd just source salvage yard parts and fix it on the cheap *or* spend the money to have something out the other end other than a non-etorque-but-otherwise-the-same 5.7L. If it's not broken, I sure AF wouldn't spend that kind of money as some sort of preventative step. If someone wants that middle ground for whatever reason or sees this as an $8500 value, it's their wallet and truck. I just hope it comes with a sticker so they get some HP out of it, at least.

Neither are removing the e-torque system.Where do you see Rubitrux saying they remove the factory e-torque system,i can't find anything saying they remove the factory e-torque.Yes you can bolt a 6.4 in where a 5.7 was, with the proper 5.7 front drive and accessories,but it'll still have the original e-torque system in place.
All 6.4's since 2019 have utilized the BGE block whether it's a car/jeep version or the truck 6.4 version.

Wrangler & Gladiator 6.4L HEMI Conversion | 392 SRT HEMI V8 Swap

Over 850 Jeep HEMI swaps completed, 6.4L 392 Wranglers are more than a concept at RubiTrux. More Wrangler JL & Gladiator JT HEMI conversions completed than any other shop in the country, the most knowledgeable & trusted in the Jeep industry.

www.rubitrux.com

Read the part where it says "Base vehicle not included in Price"

Conversion Includes:​

• New Mopar Performance Crate Engine
• New ZF 8HP75 8 Speed Automatic Transmission
• Billet Machined Transfer Case Adapter
• Appropriate Mopar Performance Adapter Parts
• Appropriate Tier One and Tier Two OEM Manufactured Parts
• All Parts
• Price Includes Credit for All Drivetrain Parts that are Removed
• *Base Vehicle Not Included in Pricing

I think you're misreading some of these conversions Doc,as nowhere can i find anybody doing a 6.4 swap in either a Jeep or truck,that are actually removing the factory e-torque system if the vehicle has it.
BTW :Ma Mopar was selling a 6.4 swap kit for the Jeeps going on 10 years now,as a local Dodge dealer here was doing them way back in 2015,but that didn't include upgrading the driveline behind the engine,you were still on the hook for upgrading the transmission/transfer case/axles etc.
So using a factory Mopar swap kit is nothing new,as the local dealer here had one in their showroom 10 years ago,and back then they wanted just a smidge under a $100,000 for it,in Canuck bucks,it basically almost doubled the cost of a brand new Jeep back then

 

[Wild one]

This is a cost breakdown of a guying doing it himself in a Jeep,using alot of used parts.Even using alot of used parts he was still into the swap for well over $15,000 and this was going on 5 years ago,and prices have increased substantially since then.		2010 JKU 6.4 Hemi Swap W/ 8 Speed Transmission
		Jeep Speed Shop Offers a discount if you call in and mention my videos
Engine	Cost	Description/Link
6.4 Hemi	Various..	Try to find one complete w/ accessories, low miles. Or buy new
Ecm	$1,100.00	https://jeepspeedshop.com/ Phone: 707-338-3154, Best to text and schedule a call
Wiring Harness	$1,500.00	https://jeepspeedshop.com/
Oil Filter Adapter	$75.00	https://www.holley.com/products/plu...ng_systems/oil_filter_adapters/parts/VK040066
Fuel line, -6an Kit	$50.00	https://amzn.to/3tBKUD0
Fuel line fitting at rail, -6 to 3/8	$23.00	https://amzn.to/3tGDYEB
Fuel Line fitting 5/16	$10.00	https://amzn.to/31j0x6a
Engine Mounts	$440.00	https://Jeepspeedshop.com/
Battery Tray	$67.00	https://www.barnes4wd.com/Battery-Box_c_28.html
Steering Relocation Bracket	$25.00	https://jeepspeedshop.com/product/steering-relocation-mount/
Catch Can	$130.00	https://amzn.to/2PcG68f
Rear Sump Oil Pan	$165.00	https://www.factorymopardirect.com/oem-parts/mopar-engine-kits-rear-sump-oil-pan-77072450ab
5.7 Starter-56044736AC	$65.00	https://amzn.to/3saB1Mr
5.7 Crank Sensor-05149230AA	$45.00	https://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/SENSOR-Crankshaft-Position/4335910/05149230AA.html
Transmission	Cost	Description/Link
8hp70 8 Speed	$800.00	I found mine on ebay with 30K miles, New: $3,200- Mopar R8273231AA (Verify with dealer that it fits 13-17 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 and has 4x4 trans adapter.
Challenger Shifter	$150.00	Ebay
Intermediate Structural Cover	$50.00	53021491AA
"Dust cover"-52104344aa	$23.00	https://amzn.to/3c9kBya This is what goes between Eng and Trans
Tap for Cooler fittings	$26.00	https://amzn.to/3s8zUN3
Cooler Lines- 68291875ab	$200.00	Dealership or Online
8 Speed Kit	$1,500.00	JSS
Ram Trans mount	$58.00	https://amzn.to/3uj2Dzu
Plate B	$40.00	JSS
Gladiator Pan- 68408606ab	$94.00	Dealership
Cooling	Cost	Description/Link
Radiator (2 Options)	$900.00	https://jeepspeedshop.com/product/radiator-for-2007-2018-lx-and-dr/
Hoses	$25.00	https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gplus-For-...496294?hash=item41fe6e00e6:g:0MQAAOSwpWRcpruR
Overflow Bottle	$7.43	https://amzn.to/3rjRc8M
Camaro Fan-84100128	$250.00	Ebay, Rock Auto, or junkyard
Camaro Fan Shroud	$450.00	JSS
Fan Controller	$200.00	JSS
JSS AC Lines	$400.00	JSS
Power Steering Cooler	$225.00	https://amzn.to/392Pfra
Trans Cooler	$285.00	https://amzn.to/3r8HjL1
Electric Fan Sensor	$12.00	https://amzn.to/3vPK8V5
Fluids	Cost	Description/Link
Engine Oil	$66.00	https://amzn.to/3tJ3RUi
Trans Fluid	$126.00	https://amzn.to/3c7RmvR
Coolant-HOAT & Distilled Water	$21.00	https://amzn.to/2QssMNL
Power Steering Fluid	$10.00	https://amzn.to/3c7eoCU
Exhuast and Intake	Cost	Description/Link
Manifold Left- 53013857AD	$170.00	https://amzn.to/3s9PsAl
Manifold Right- 53013858ad	$160.00	https://amzn.to/3s8Dnvd
Manifold Gaskets	$25.00	https://amzn.to/3vLz8rJ
Heat Shield x2	$32.00	https://amzn.to/311e6ai
Manifold Bolts	$40.00	https://amzn.to/3941bZx
3" Tubing kit	$158.00	https://amzn.to/2Qr03bZ
2.5" Tubing kit	$136.00	https://amzn.to/31gKSEI
Y pipe	$26.00	https://amzn.to/3vNscKE
****** Muffler	$90.00	https://amzn.to/393zTCA
Resonator	$42.00	https://amzn.to/3f1kYg4
02 Sensors x4	$168.00	https://amzn.to/3f2UDyo
Hangers	$20.00	https://amzn.to/3lLK6cb https://amzn.to/3rlzK3E
V Band Clamps	$35.00	https://amzn.to/2NQ31pH
Catalytic Converters	$180.00	https://amzn.to/311fpWK
02 Sensor Bungs	$28.00	https://amzn.to/3c7QN57
Intake Pipe	$57.00	https://amzn.to/2OTTjmG
Intake Elbows	$7.00	https://amzn.to/3cUVBd9
Filter	$40.00	https://amzn.to/3c8g9Qo
My Cost	$15,549.00

 

[Docwagon1776]

Neither are removing the e-torque system.Where do you see Rubitrux saying they remove the factory e-torque system,i can't find anything saying they remove the factory e-torque.

Jeep forums. Example:
************
I wanted to check with them if the eTorque would prevent that. I would assume, though, that it would remove the eTorque system completely and run the alternator from the hemi instead of the belt driven motor generator from the eTorque.

Rubitrux response:
That's exactly what we do! Never had a problem removing the eTorque system. Give us a call anytime and we can discuss what we do and answer any and all of your questions. 828-528-3650

You can also @ us on here with any of your questions.

************

The Jeep swaps are pricy AF, I was just pointing out the *difference* in cost to swap to a 5.7 vs a 6.4 from the 3.6L.

The Aussie kit is a complete motor and kit, but no labor. They do some pretty interesting stuff, including a twin turbo that is compatible with etorque. For "offroad use only" of course, wink wink.

 

[Randy Grant]

We can refer to it as the e-junk tax, for the ones that were dumb enough to think this was actually a good system.

Oh? pushing 90k with no problems.

 

[Rlaf75]

My 21 BTS non e-torque is the last new vehicle I will buy. I'll be driving this until it wont drive anymore. Next truck is gonna be a late 70's something or other that has no electronics and has like 4 wires powering everything lol

 

[Docwagon1776]

My 21 BTS non e-torque is the last new vehicle I will buy. I'll be driving this until it wont drive anymore. Next truck is gonna be a late 70's something or other that has no electronics and has like 4 wires powering everything lol

Same. My PW is likely the newest thing I'll buy. I want a Ranger Raptor. It's the perfect size to compliment the PW, fitting places the PW just won't go, easier to drive and park in town, and a reasonably fun little truck to drive....but I don't want it enough to deal with all the BS they come with. I'm not buying a vehicle with a camera that watches me drive, drivetrain OTA updates, etc. Sucks, too, I have the money to buy one today but nobody is making anything I want.

 

[Ramanski]

Admittedly, maybe I'm missing something. A tune is required either way, so that's a wash. The 6.4 is non etorque from the start and obviously you'll need the alternator and accessories from a 6.4 truck as well. So what else is required? And why would I not do that vs paying $8500 for whatever nebulous benefit removing etorque would provide?

 

[Dusty]

Seems in line with what I said. You'd need the accessories from a 6.4L truck to do a 6.4L swap anyway, so that's a wash as well.

Mechanically, etorque isn't integrated with anything past the motor and accessory drive. Well, it's secondary battery I suppose, but it's only purpose is stop/start and removing etorque you're probably not going to bother to try and make the "new build" truck have stop/start and will tune that out as well.

Tuning wise, I'm not sure if you'd need to do anything with the transmission or not as etorque briefly kicks in to help smooth shifts but I don't know if the transmission tuning itself is any different as a result. I suspect it is not, but that's well past my knowledge level.

I get there's a lot to it. I just don't see it as an $8500 worth of difference to delete it. If I'm that deep in the checkbook I'm going a bit deeper and doing a 6.4L swap. Academic for me, though, I don't and won't own an etorque Ram. Frankly I doubt I ever own another half ton Ram, period.

I was told by a Ram tech. that a failure of the Start/Stop battery has caused drivability issues not normally associated with Start/Stop (transmission shifting, specifically) and other strange electronic weirdness.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 142099 miles.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I was told by a Ram tech. that a failure of the Start/Stop battery has caused drivability issues not normally associated with Start/Stop (transmission shifting, specifically) and other strange electronic weirdness.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 142099 miles.

That's mostly why I was thinking about if you'd need a tune that doesn't anticipate etorque 'helping' by smoothing the shift. There's no hardware differences for the transmission, so if it's an issue it'll be in the software.

 

[Racer 56]

Looks like Richard Campbell can remove the E-torque and replace it with a normal alternator,price includes parts/labour and a tune .


Richard Campbell
View attachment 575692All-star contributor
·
We can remove the MGU and alternator swap it for $8500 at Dynomite Performance

Richard Campbell
View attachment 575693All-star contributor
·

Kalani Lagao all parts / all labor / all programming / with pcm unlocked and tuned yes

Please explain the problems with torque and why owners want to eliminate?

 

[bentice33]

Looks like Richard Campbell can remove the E-torque and replace it with a normal alternator,price includes parts/labour and a tune .


Richard Campbell
View attachment 575692All-star contributor
·
We can remove the MGU and alternator swap it for $8500 at Dynomite Performance

Richard Campbell
View attachment 575693All-star contributor
·

Kalani Lagao all parts / all labor / all programming / with pcm unlocked and tuned yes

I really would like to know what are the problems that so many people are having with the e-torque that bring everyone to wanting to remove it from they're truck, really what is one Big point? Just wanting to know. Thanks

 

[Docwagon1776]

Please explain the problems with torque and why owners want to eliminate?

I really would like to know what are the problems that so many people are having with the e-torque that bring everyone to wanting to remove it from they're truck, really what is one Big point? Just wanting to know. Thanks

When it goes out, parts are often on lengthy backorder with no ETA for when they will become available. It's not so much it's a problem when it works. It's a problem when it takes your truck out of service for months waiting on a new part.