Exhaust Manifold bolts nightmare

[Epillon]

I'm at my wits end with these fuggin bolts. I know they're a known issue and have read about many people having this issue. But in the last 8k miles I've had the exhaust manifold bolts break off causing that awful rattling sound, TWICE.
The first time the dealer replaced them with OEM bolts, which I even questioned, since the OEM bolts broke wouldn't they use a different type? Tech told me these are going to last me 100k miles (another red flag, so he knows they're going to break again??) and the original OEM had some manufacturing issue causing them to sheer off.
Well, after only 7600 miles I heard that hideous rattling one morning after a slight cold spell here in Vegas.
Now, I'm not a hot-headed 17yr old kid stomping the gas everywhere I go, chirping off from every light. I love my Ram and drive like a normal person because I don't want to **** her up.
So now I've gotta go back and have them replace the bolts again.

Please advise. What should I tell this tech before they put the same freaking bolts on and God forbid they last just long enough past my 80k Warranty and then I'm stuck eating a bill for these faulty bolts. So, can I purchase my own aftermarket bolts to have them use or they'd probably refuse since it's a warranty issue? Can I demand different bolts since they're obviously giving me the same cycle of headaches and frustration?
I'm supposed to drop off my truck today and pick up my free rental, but this seems like a nightmare scenario of bolt failure.

 

[Pull Ya]

Usually if the work is done under warranty they will only install OEM parts. If I were in your shoes, I think I would go buy some replacement(decent)bolts, pull the tech aside and ask him if he would do you a favor and install your own bolts----me might--he might not, but at least it's worth a try. I always give people the opportunity to say "no".
Jay

 

[Saltillo Express]

I always wonder - do they loosen everything else up before they refasten the manifolds? You know, like take the pressure off the manifolds if the exhaust is putting them in a bind somehow? And I wonder what the torque specs are for those bolts? Are they overtightening them? Using a torque wrench? And also - (surely someone will come behind me and say otherwise) BUT, with headers at least in my experience - you have to tighten and retighten those bolts. I wonder - if with manifolds, would there be any merit in re checking them with a torque wrench in 500 miles or so?

 

[charonblk07]

Buy a set of Stage 8 locking bolts and have them installed in place of the factory fasteners. You will lose the heat shield because they don't have the required studs but they are a much better fastener and have never caused any issues.

 

[Kap1]

Is it possible that we're making quite a few assumptions here?

1. Are you sure it's same manifold bolts? Maybe they only replaced the broken bolts last time and not all of them?

Could be some other issue?

2. Are we sure they use same replacement bolts that factory uses? Since it's a know issue, maybe they do use some other better bolts when replacing them.

3. How often do these replacement bolts break again for prople? I don't think I've seen many threads about repeat break of these bolts.

4. Maybe it's not the bolts but the thread in the engine instead? Would be good to talk to tech and know the specifics.

5. Maybe tech who was installing it screw something up or forgot to tighten something when doing the repair.


By the way, I had my manifold bolts replaced too maybe 5k miles away, and sometimes on cold starts, I think that I hear those manifold leak noises again, but not consistent enough yet to bring it in again.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[MADDOG]

Give 'em a set of Stage 8 bolts & clips designed for the HEMI.

You won't have to go back for snapped, loose and rattling bolts again.

 

[jwheeler]

Which side did they replace last time?

Are you sure it is the same side?

Are you sure the noise is even caused by broken bolts?

Was the manifold replaced last time?


I have replaced probably hundreds of hemi exhaust manifold bolts under warranty. But on my personal truck, when they broke, I replaced them with stage 8 bolts and do not expect to have a problem again.

 

[charonblk07]

Is it possible that we're making quite a few assumptions here?

1. Are you sure it's same manifold bolts? Maybe they only replaced the broken bolts last time and not all of them?

Could be some other issue?



The exhaust manifold have been known to warp if left long enough with broken bolts and if the shop just replaces the bolts they will break again in short order because of the increased tension on the stud from the warped manifold.

2. Are we sure they use same replacement bolts that factory uses? Since it's a know issue, maybe they do use some other better bolts when replacing them.


There is a new part number for the replacement bolts, apparently they are a different grade of steel.

3. How often do these replacement bolts break again for prople? I don't think I've seen many threads about repeat break of these bolts.



They still fail, just at a much lower rate. My brother's the back parts guy at a local dealership and he goes through plenty of the replacement bolts. He's started recommending the Stage 8s after he's seen them on my engines.

4. Maybe it's not the bolts but the thread in the engine instead? Would be good to talk to tech and know the specifics.



The threads have never had any issues with these broken bolts because the bolt itself necks and shears, often flush with the head itself.

5. Maybe tech who was installing it screw something up or forgot to tighten something when doing the repair.


By the way, I had my manifold bolts replaced too maybe 5k miles away, and sometimes on cold starts, I think that I hear those manifold leak noises again, but not consistent enough yet to bring it in again.

Let us know how it goes.

See answers above.

 

[Kap1]

I reviewed the paperwork that my dealership given me after replacing manifold bolts, and while the description of work done is a bit vague and refers only to one bolt being drilled out and replaced, the parts list has 5 of those manifold bolts on it - so i'm guessing that Tech replaced 5 bolts.

Check your receipt with description and parts used - maybe it'll say what exactly was replaced.

How many total bolts are there holding the manifold?

 

[Rustycowl69]

drilling out the broken bolts sounds really scary. It is very hard to drill centered exactly in the middle, drill at the perfect angle in really cramped quarters, to boot. A left-handed drill helps, too. Somebody had a link posted, where it showed on u-tube some guy welding nuts to the broken stud and just using a wrench to turn them out. It looked really easy for him.

 

[Kap1]

drilling out the broken bolts sounds really scary. It is very hard to drill centered exactly in the middle, drill at the perfect angle in really cramped quarters, to boot. A left-handed drill helps, too. Somebody had a link posted, where it showed on u-tube some guy welding nuts to the broken stud and just using a wrench to turn them out. It looked really easy for him.

yes, it does sound scary but what can we do... we're left at the mercy of the service tech. All we can do is hopefully find a dealership with competent service techs/forman who does these complicated jobs, and pray.

 

[jasonw]

My truck had the leaking manifold(s) when I bought it at 38k last month (just passed the 40k mark). It was still under the powertrain warranty, so I didn't mind. Just dropped it off last Friday morning (yesterday) at the dealership and they had it fixed by 4:00pm.

They measured the manifolds, both were warped. Both manifolds replaced, looks like bolts/studs all replaced. Sure smelled a little like new exhaust metal/pipe when I got home last night. Will report any issues (if they warp/break again).

 

[Kap1]

How many manifold bolts are there total?

Looks like the tech replaced only 2 bolts and waiting for others to break later...?

 

[blackbetty14]

Jesus. I should just replace the bolts now with ARP or something so I don't have to worry about this. Ugh. I plan to keep my truck and I baby it and don't put a lot of miles on it. Less than 9k after 1.5 years.

This is also a common problem on LS motors specifically the back manifold bolts. I just bought a 99 truck 5.3LS from a donor truck for my firebird and it had 3 broken exhaust bolts flush with the head. I did the weld a but on the stud and they came right out after I got a good weld. Worked perfectly but the engine was full out and on a stand and I had plenty of room to work on it. Couldn't imagine doing it inside an engine bay.

Anyone got any links to the stage 8s or ARP equivalent?

 

[Rustycowl69]

It seems like the rear bolts are the most susceptible to this problem. Possibly because the run the hottest?

 

[Kap1]

Sorry I have to ask this again,

But how many manifold bolts are there total?

Thank you

 

[Epillon]

Okay.. So it's been quite the interesting 24hrs. I dropped off my truck yesterday and told them what was going on. Initially they said it may be a different issue, until I took them outside and started my truck and rev'd the gas making it sound like I was making ball bearing pop corn.

They told me until Monday (closed Sundays) and that they'd let me know. Well, literally 2 hours after getting home with my rental they called me saying my truck was ready. HUH? I go back and instead of going to the service writer I went right in the garage and sought the tech who did the work. I wanted to hear it from the "horses mouth" so to speak. The tech said he replaced the broken bolts.... ALL the bolts or just the broken ones I asked? Also if they measured the manifold to make sure it's not warped which will just cause another premature issue and exhaust leaks? Nope. Atleast he was honest. Said he was told to replace the broken bolts and get me rolling (bolts had sheered off).

So I go into the service writer office and ask what had been done. HE tells me that they replaced ALL the manifold bolts, measured the manifold and replaced the gasket. I asked him to put my truck up on a lift and show me because I have reason to believe he's bull****ting me.

Long story short, the Service Writer blamed everything on the Tech, saying he was told to replace everything the way he had told me. So I told them to keep the truck until it's actually fixed and the next time I'm coming back with a friend who owns a Body/Tuning shop to ensure they did everything they claim.

This is a total first for me. I've read about the horror stories of shops lying and shady work but never thought I fit the bill of being a "mark." I contacted the District Mgr because I'm so pissed (yep, I'm THAT guy, I'll call the GM of Fiat if I could get through) to express my concerns.

So let's see what they've done to my truck by Monday. I wish I would've known about this locations horrible rep (Chapman Dodge Sahara, Las Vegas) because on Google and Yelp all the reviews say to run away from this place.

 

[Casper]

I'm at my wits end with these fuggin bolts. I know they're a known issue and have read about many people having this issue. But in the last 8k miles I've had the exhaust manifold bolts break off causing that awful rattling sound, TWICE.
The first time the dealer replaced them with OEM bolts, which I even questioned, since the OEM bolts broke wouldn't they use a different type? Tech told me these are going to last me 100k miles (another red flag, so he knows they're going to break again??) and the original OEM had some manufacturing issue causing them to sheer off.
Well, after only 7600 miles I heard that hideous rattling one morning after a slight cold spell here in Vegas.
Now, I'm not a hot-headed 17yr old kid stomping the gas everywhere I go, chirping off from every light. I love my Ram and drive like a normal person because I don't want to **** her up.
So now I've gotta go back and have them replace the bolts again.

Please advise. What should I tell this tech before they put the same freaking bolts on and God forbid they last just long enough past my 80k Warranty and then I'm stuck eating a bill for these faulty bolts. So, can I purchase my own aftermarket bolts to have them use or they'd probably refuse since it's a warranty issue? Can I demand different bolts since they're obviously giving me the same cycle of headaches and frustration?
I'm supposed to drop off my truck today and pick up my free rental, but this seems like a nightmare scenario of bolt failure.

Well, if you're upset enough, buy a set of ARH long tube headers and ensure they use better bolts.

 

[jwheeler]

Sorry I have to ask this again,



But how many manifold bolts are there total?



Thank you

There are 8-9. They are all on that repair order that was posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jwheeler]

Well that stinks they they are giving you the run around. I can tell you that if it was up to the tech, everything would have been replaced for good measure. Flat rate technicians don't get paid to do the job a second time. Are you sure it was the same side that failed last time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk