Hemi Tick....but lifters look fine??

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ramnododge

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cam looks like you pulled it out in time, I would suggest a shop to clean up the heads and values if you are not sure about that part.
plane the exhaust manifolds while you have it apart.
I'm doing just that! You have definitely convinced me to bring it to the local shop and get everything flat. It also saves me the elbow grease of cleaning the heads too! Local shop here comes with good reviews so I'm gonna do just that. The exhaust manifolds I JUST put on, specifically to narrow down that it was a lifter/cam issue. I honestly think I'm okay with them warping again in a few thousands miles. I feel like I can finally tell the difference b/w a lifter tick and an exhaust tick. My old Ram started the exhaust tick at about 60k miles and went to 120k miles before it was totaled :( So I'm okay with the manifolds warping again. I really wanted to put headers on to avoid any question, but that's just more money than I'm willing to put in.
 
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Marshall

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I missed the part about the new manifolds, easy to check anyway, just put a straight edge on the face and check for gaps, a level works OK.
Headers can be a pita on tight fits. been there done that
 

Barr2255

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First off, we love our Hemis… right? and the problems they come with… right? Just like a puppy they grow on us.

You’ve already got a lot of good advice from other members.

Lucas didn’t cause your misfire.

If you haven’t already taken the heads to the machine shop ask if they can vacuum test them and check valve seats. I’m in the middle of this process as well and my shop offered that as part of the jet cleaning. They are also doing new seals and putting the new springs that I’m supplying on the heads after cleaning. $340 for the pair. I’m in cali so your prices might be even cheaper.

Whoever said don’t use OEM is crazy. In my case it wasn’t an MDS lifter that failed but a standard lifter. Comp cams, summit ect.. is all re-boxed cheap chinese crap. (Some people may get lucky every once in awhile) I know the price points is tempting but stray away.

Your doing great and I commend you for tackling this project because there’s a few people on here that seem to give advice on the topic that have never actually done it on their own.

Keep us all updated on your progress and first start up! We’re rooting for you!

another thing, I’m going to do this and it may just make me feel better but when you have the timing cover off you’ll have access to the front of the pan, dump the cheapest oil you can find with the drain plug off and try an flush that pan out, same with lifter journals and any oil jackets. Just becareful you don’t dump oil in your water jackets. Lol

Also worth noting… put your old lifters back in before cleaning your block mating surface. No reason to introduce more crap than already is floating around. Not a lot of people mention that but it’s a other piece of mind and relevant aspect. Most people use an sos pad or 3M roloc disc both those are impregnated with silica, that dust will eat bearings. Just be mindful when cleaning. Stuffing jackets with paper towels ect…
 
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ramnododge

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First off, we love our Hemis… right? and the problems they come with… right? Just like a puppy they grow on us.

You’ve already got a lot of good advice from other members.

Lucas didn’t cause your misfire.

If you haven’t already taken the heads to the machine shop ask if they can vacuum test them and check valve seats. I’m in the middle of this process as well and my shop offered that as part of the jet cleaning. They are also doing new seals and putting the new springs that I’m supplying on the heads after cleaning. $340 for the pair. I’m in cali so your prices might be even cheaper.

Whoever said don’t use OEM is crazy. In my case it wasn’t an MDS lifter that failed but a standard lifter. Comp cams, summit ect.. is all re-boxed cheap chinese crap. (Some people may get lucky every once in awhile) I know the price points is tempting but stray away.

Your doing great and I commend you for tackling this project because there’s a few people on here that seem to give advice on the topic that have never actually done it on their own.

Keep us all updated on your progress and first start up! We’re rooting for you!

another thing, I’m going to do this and it may just make me feel better but when you have the timing cover off you’ll have access to the front of the pan, dump the cheapest oil you can find with the drain plug off and try an flush that pan out, same with lifter journals and any oil jackets. Just becareful you don’t dump oil in your water jackets. Lol

Also worth noting… put your old lifters back in before cleaning your block mating surface. No reason to introduce more crap than already is floating around. Not a lot of people mention that but it’s an other piece of mind and relevant aspect. Most people use an sos pad or 3M roloc disc both those are impregnated with silica, that dust will eat bearings. Just be mindful when cleaning. Stuffing jackets with paper towels ect…
All solid advise! That’s amazing! Yes, the people here have given me the best advice. But since I’m not a mechanic by trade, I agree that there’s a lot of stuff you just “have to know”. For instance; I’ve tinkered with cars enough to have heard the words “resurface cylinder heads”, so that was a decision for me. Do I just do what I was told in all the how-tos for this project, which did not really mention that it’s vital to get that part done? Well, fortunately the heads just got dropped off to the shop yesterday! They mentioned doing everything you just said, including seals! Price is $400, maybe they took me for a ride there, but it’s a dude with a shop in a no-A/C shed in his backyard, so I’m happy to support local!

But yes, I’m finding there’s a lot more to this than “take it off, put new cam in, put it back on”. Respect for that trade, for sure. I struggled trying to figure out the deck cleaning too. Green scotchbrite? Someone says no bc it will get into all the oil passages….i say, “wait I have to cover all the oil passages? Won’t an oil change just flush it out”. Yea….use some sense. I ultimately went with brass brush and purple power! But that’s a great idea, putting the old lifters back in! Wish I would’ve known that 2 days ago, while I was stuffing paper towels everywhere!!

I’ve always been big on OEM stuff. I work in the automotive industry, specifically a metrology engineer. In previous places, we used to do a lot of failure testing/measuring on OEM vs aftermarket, on bearings, rocker arms, tappers, internals etc. and the reality was, OEM was far superior. People are very quick to call the heavy hitters (Ford, Fiat, GM) penny pinching companies, but they are far superior to the alternatives in my complete experience.

I often wonder why everyone here actually cares to take their own downtime to answer my dumb questions on this forum, instead of telling me to “take it to a mechanic if you don’t know”. So the support is incredibly appreciated here! I plan to see this project through, even if it takes me the next 6 weekends, and I’m far from done. For instance; I don’t know how tf to seat a cylinder head gasket….but guess I’m gonna find out! Fortunately everyone here is very supportive so thank you all!!
 
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cbt1976

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What is seat a head gasket? Don't you just put them on the right way and put the head on and torque them to specs?

I just did this to a 2014 1500 I purchased with a wiped camshaft/lifter failure. Cleaned heads and checked for flatness and reinstalled w/ felpro head gaskets, original head bolts(Ram says they are reusable), about 700 miles on it and no issues. I did replace the oil pump with a HV Melling pump.
 
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ramnododge

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What is seat a head gasket? Don't you just put them on the right way and put the head on and torque them to specs?

I just did this to a 2014 1500 I purchased with a wiped camshaft/lifter failure. Cleaned heads and checked for flatness and reinstalled w/ felpro head gaskets, original head bolts(Ram says they are reusable), about 700 miles on it and no issues. I did replace the oil pump with a HV Melling pump.
Meh….what I was implying is just making sure everything seats/compresses correctly. Everything being clean and flat. Glad to hear your success! Makes me feel better about getting through it all.
 

73-Cudah2

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Hello everyone. I have a new 5.7 HEMI in my 2014 Ram 1500 extended cab. I had the tick in
my original HEMI. Valves and CAM, metal shavings. What a pain 14,000.00 later my new HEMI was installed, They ordered a new HEMI be built. They ordered a long block and moved the other parts over to it. First time i started it it had the tick again, I complained they said drive a week and bring it back. The tick was still there one week later. They changed the oil/filter everything looked ok. I wished they would have stop the tick by rebuilding the engine but no luck. I have been reading many of the sites about the TICK. I see here your talking about Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Just for your own thoughts please view this on it.
I am still looking for the fix. Thanks everyone for the info.
this is a great site for RAM issues and fun facts. Keep them coming.
 

Burla

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Hello everyone. I have a new 5.7 HEMI in my 2014 Ram 1500 extended cab. I had the tick in
my original HEMI. Valves and CAM, metal shavings. What a pain 14,000.00 later my new HEMI was installed, They ordered a new HEMI be built. They ordered a long block and moved the other parts over to it. First time i started it it had the tick again, I complained they said drive a week and bring it back. The tick was still there one week later. They changed the oil/filter everything looked ok. I wished they would have stop the tick by rebuilding the engine but no luck. I have been reading many of the sites about the TICK. I see here your talking about Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Just for your own thoughts please view this on it.
I am still looking for the fix. Thanks everyone for the info.
this is a great site for RAM issues and fun facts. Keep them coming.
Look up threads in my sig, no on Lucas trust me. Lucas is an oil thicker, this issue needs AW/EP additives and base oils not so much viscosity.

Viscosity at 100 - 112, 5w20 is 9, 5w30 is 12, 5w40 is 16, so moving to viscosity 112 is a real bad idea. The product has its place, but it is the wrong tool for perpendicular forces of lifters.

In this case don't mess around, go redline 5w30 and royal purple 20-820. If you cant get rp filter look for fram ultra xg2 or fram endurance fe2. Look at the polls in my sig 100's of ram forum Members tested.
 

Burla

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EP additives are oil soluble metal with sulfur atoms that stick to metal and plate. Plus redline HP has esters that allow oil to stick to metal and help EP additives plate. They are magnitudes better at lowering the coefficient of friction then shelf oil or thickners. It is a rare formula and as good as it gets at killing hemi tick, 80% success rate.
 
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ramnododge

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Hi guys. I'm finished with the Cam swap and got everything back together. Ready to fire it up this weekend to test everything, but took a pause on the tuner side of things. I *think* i may have made a mistake with my order from MMX, and didn't catch it until now. So what I got from them is:

- *RECOMMEND - Please Include a Full Set of Hellcat Lifters and MDS Plugs With My Order
- 5.7/6.4 2009+ Camshaft (VVT) "RAM ONLY"
- New Mopar VVT Camshaft Bolt
- Timing Set (Partial)
- Diablosport Predator 2 for 2009-2014 ONLY Dodge Ram Trucks - RAM 1500 ONLY!

So here's where I'm wondering that I messed up. I THOUGHT I got a camshaft that didn't require tuning, but looking at their website, they've got their own camshaft that says "No Tuning required"....but of course that's not what I got. AND to top that off, I did not get a phaser limiter, bc I was thinking I don't need one. I did receive a Diablosport tuner, though, knowing I needed that to turn off MDS.

So since its the weekend, and I really wanted to get the truck running, I can't ask MMX. Those of you familiar with MMX cam swap, do I need some sort of tune (other than turning off MDS) for this particular Camshaft? And even worse....do I need a phaser limiter installed too?

Thanks guys!
 

Wild one

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Hi guys. I'm finished with the Cam swap and got everything back together. Ready to fire it up this weekend to test everything, but took a pause on the tuner side of things. I *think* i may have made a mistake with my order from MMX, and didn't catch it until now. So what I got from them is:

- *RECOMMEND - Please Include a Full Set of Hellcat Lifters and MDS Plugs With My Order
- 5.7/6.4 2009+ Camshaft (VVT) "RAM ONLY"
- New Mopar VVT Camshaft Bolt
- Timing Set (Partial)
- Diablosport Predator 2 for 2009-2014 ONLY Dodge Ram Trucks - RAM 1500 ONLY!

So here's where I'm wondering that I messed up. I THOUGHT I got a camshaft that didn't require tuning, but looking at their website, they've got their own camshaft that says "No Tuning required"....but of course that's not what I got. AND to top that off, I did not get a phaser limiter, bc I was thinking I don't need one. I did receive a Diablosport tuner, though, knowing I needed that to turn off MDS.

So since its the weekend, and I really wanted to get the truck running, I can't ask MMX. Those of you familiar with MMX cam swap, do I need some sort of tune (other than turning off MDS) for this particular Camshaft? And even worse....do I need a phaser limiter installed too?

Thanks guys!
Helps if you put a link up to the cam you bought,as MMX sells lots of differant grinds.
Phone them when they're open,and they'll be able to advise you better ,then us guys who are guessing at what cam you bought.
 
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ramnododge

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Helps if you put a link up to the cam you bought,as MMX sells lots of differant grinds.
Phone them when they're open,and they'll be able to advise you better ,then us guys who are guessing at what cam you bought.
Yea unfortunately that is a direct copy/paste receipt for what I got. But the serial on the Cam is 53022314AD, though if that’s familiar to anyone. Looks like a mopar number for the non-mds cam

I did email MMX with a question about the tune about 2 weeks ago, but no response. I did not follow up though since I was still focusing on other things on the truck.
 
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Wild one

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Yea unfortunately that is a direct copy/paste receipt for what I got. Serial on the Cam is 53022314AD, though if that’s familiar to anyone. Looks like a mopar number for the non-mds cam
Copy and paste the link to the cam "OFF" MMX's site,we're just guessing at what cam you have with what you've posted.
They're open tomorrow,so phone them.


 
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ramnododge

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Copy and paste the link to the cam "OFF" MMX's site,we're just guessing at what cam you have with what you've posted.
They're open tomorrow,so phone them.


It was the "build your own" MDS Delete Kit.

https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/...delete-kit-by-mmxmopar-components-listed.aspx

Which probably doesn't do anyone, any good since you have to build the kit yourself. I didn't buy just a CAM. In the kit, I should have chosen "VVT ONLY 5.7 MMX NO TUNE REQUIRED" camshaft, but unfortunately did not. I chose the "5.7/6.4 2009+ Camshaft (VVT) "RAM ONLY" , Add $399.95"

I will call them on Monday. I'm here because I really wanted to try turning the truck on this weekend to see how the install went. I can only work on it weekends, so getting a response from them means another week going by, unfortunately.
 
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ramnododge

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Hey guys. So, for whoever is still following this thread....

After confirming the tuner stuff above (I did not need a tune for the cam, just MDS), diablosport bricked my pcm, so that was fun.

BUT....got everything in working order. Fired up the truck today. I unfortunately knew throughout this whole cam/lifter swap, that this wasn't going to have a fairytale ending when starting it up. I just didn't have the knowledge for this build.

The truck idled/shook HARD. And, good amount of white smoke from the engine bay + tail pipes. I didn't idle for more than about 1 min before I decided to cut it.

So from here, I'm pretty beat and not even sure if I've got it in me to continue this vs towing it somewhere. But before giving up, here is what I *know* i need to go back and check:

1) TIMING: I know that's the most important thing here. I didn't go through the effort to take oil pump off and really confirm (bc 4wd), but I was mostly confident that I didnt slip a tooth and confirmed with the square key on the crank at 2oclock, with cam at 12. Doesn't matter how many times I was warned to just drop the damn oil pan and take off the oil pump, I took the shortcut. And it probably burned me.

2) PUSHRODS: That one isn't so bad....double check all of them are seated properly. I thought I was pretty confident about this one after rotating the engine and observing all of the valves opening/closing like normal.

Is the pushrod going to make the engine shake that bad, or should I just go ahead and assume the timing go messed up?

The other concerning thing is the white smoke....can this possibly be related to timing? Or am I looking at coolant getting into combustion chamber, via an immediate head gasket failure?

Anything else I should check while I’m in there?

Thanks for all your help this far guys.
 
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Ken226

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with the square key on the crank at 2oclock, with cam at 12.

The keyway at 2:00 seems like it would be easy to make a mistake.

With it in this position, did you crawl under with a flashlight a lnd verify the position of the actual timing mark at 6:00? And as a backup double check, that they were aligned with the colored links on the chain?

It's the sort of thing we're certainly is so easy to achieve, and failure so costly, that it's worth the time and effort of double checking.

Not quite to the same extent, but like verifying that your parachute was packed correctly, or that all your grenades still have the safety clip on the spoon.
 
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ramnododge

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The keyway at 2:00 seems like it would be easy to make a mistake.

With it in this position, did you crawl under with a flashlight a lnd verify the position of the actual timing mark at 6:00? And as a backup double check, that they were aligned with the colored links on the chain?

It's the sort of thing we're certainly is so easy to achieve, and failure so costly, that it's worth the time and effort of double checking.

Not quite to the same extent, but like verifying that your parachute was packed correctly, or that all your grenades still have the safety clip on the spoon.
You’re absolutely right….why take the shortcut. I actually kind of half-assed attempt to see the timing mark behind the oil pump, but I really couldn’t see any feasible way to see anything, without taking that pump off. I used paint marks on the chain that I made sure were in the same spot as before, but that’s just another method that it’s easy to make a mistake on too. Guess it’s back to the timing.
 

HEMIMANN

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White smoke can be unburned fuel or coolant. If you're confident you got good head seal and intake manifold seal, then timing is way off.
 
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ramnododge

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Quick update: I actually loaded the Non-MDS tune this time, and fired back up. No smoke. But, its still shaking.....mysteriously feels like the exact same shake it started doing before pulling the engine apart, when i was getting a Cyl 2 misfire. I would let off the gas from a stop it would jerk uncontrollably until i gassed it, yea its doing that still. I drove it around for about 2 miles or so, around the neighborhood.

BUT....im getting:

Ignition Coil H Sec Cir P2323
Cylinder 8 Misfire P0308
Multiple Cylinder Misfire P0300

Is that totally indicative of the timing being off? Kinda seems that way from what I've found on this forum. But oddly it is now performing exactly as it was, before I tore the thing apart lol

THE TICK IS GONE THOUGH!!! so that's a win
 
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