Issues after cam swap

[Apager]

Morning all,

Taking to this group for some help on my cam swap I did on my 09 HEMI. Just got done replacing JUST the cam (no lifters). Re timed it by lining up the marks on the chain with the phaser at 12 o clock and pointing the keyway of the crank at 3 o clock (or towards the 5.7 mark on the oil pump). After starting the truck runs extremely rough and idles high (1.2). Trying to rev it up and it doesn’t go past 2k rpm. Attached are the codes that it is throwing.

So my next question is where do I start. Take the valve covers off and see if the rockers are going down like they should? I’m really hoping it’s not the timing so I don’t have to tear everything apart again.

ANY help would be appreciated.

Apauger

 

[indept]

It's probably off a tooth or so. After you lined up the timing marks did you spin the engine by hand at least 1 full revolution then see if the marks all lined back up?

 

[indept]

Also, why not new lifters?

 

[Apager]

No I didn’t. But now I see I should have.

And out of laziness I just want to make 100% sure that’s what it is before I go taking everything apart… again.

 

[Apager]

Also, why not new lifters?

Just don’t have the time or budget for it.

And there was no lifter tick prior to the new camshaft, just a misfire.

 

[indept]

You should have replaced the lifters. If the old cam was the cause of the misfire then it had a wiped lobe. The lifter on that lobe is probably damaged. Did you inspect the rollers on the lifters?

 

[Apager]

You should have replaced the lifters. If the old cam was the cause of the misfire then it had a wiped lobe. The lifter on that lobe is probably damaged. Did you inspect the rollers on the lifters?

You are right, one of the cam lobes was eaten up pretty good. No I didn’t inspect the rollers. This is my first time getting really internal in an engine but I have a bit of experience in other realms.

 

[Wild one]

You are right, one of the cam lobes was eaten up pretty good. No I didn’t inspect the rollers. This is my first time getting really internal in an engine but I have a bit of experience in other realms.

Pull it apart and at the very least replace the lifter that was on the chewed up lobe.The only way a cam lobe goes south,is if the lifter has issues. That applies to even a flat tappet cam

 

[jws123]

You are right, one of the cam lobes was eaten up pretty good. No I didn’t inspect the rollers. This is my first time getting really internal in an engine but I have a bit of experience in other realms.

Do not run the truck you will destroy the camshaft very fast if you dont replace the lifter on the cylinder that the lobe was eaten up. I understand time and budget but if your not going to do it right in the long run it will cost you more time and money then doing it the right way in the first place.

 

[Brandon-w]

If your Valves didn't kiss the pistons take those heads off and do Your lifters. New head bolts too, they're torque to yeild and not reusable.

I did a cam on my truck, replaced everything went through it with a fine tooth comb including break in procedure I installed the non MDS injectors and my cam went again 20k later. Ended up biting the bullet and doing an engine.

 

[Apager]

Is there any way that I can diagnose the timing and make sure it’s not anything else?

 

[Wild one]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here,but i'm guessing the reason the lifters didn't get checked is you never pulled the heads,you just rotated the cam a couple turns to push the lifters up in the bore,then swapped the cam.You're going to be your own worst enemy for nickle and diming the job and being lazy.The codes won't matter,as you'll probably only get another couple hundred miles out of it,before you're doing the cam again. Pull it apart and do it right or you'll be changing the cam every couple hundred miles.The lifters are what's eating the cam lobe,plain and simple.At the very least you need to replace the lifter that was on the chewed up lobe.Hopefully you haven't already messed up the new cam,but if you keep trying to get it to run,it won't be long before your new cam is also ruined

 

[Apager]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here,but i'm guessing the reason the lifters didn't get checked is you never pulled the heads,you just rotated the cam a couple turns to push the lifters up in the bore,then swapped the cam.You're going to be your own worst enemy for nickle and diming the job and being lazy.The codes won't matter,as you'll probably only get another couple hundred miles out of it,before you're doing the cam again. Pull it apart and do it right or you'll be changing the cam every couple hundred miles.The lifters are what's eating the cam lobe,plain and simple.At the very least you need to replace the lifter that was on the chewed up lobe

You are 100% correct ..

I am basing my knowledge off of what I see online. I see many guys say that have been fine just replacing the cam on high mileage trucks. But now I’m obviously hearing different. Was just hoping to now get into the nightmare that comes with taking off the heads/doing lifters.

But I’m still worried about it not running right with the new cam. I guess if I have to take everything apart again I might as well do them while I’m in.. again I was just hoping to not have another 2 week project ..

My next question.. can I leave the cam in now when doing lifters/pushrods/rockers?

 

[Daw14]

Save up for that new mmx motor ,your probably gonna need shortly. How did you not look at the camshaft ? Learn to use the search function on this site,it will help You to understand your truck better. Most likely someone else has experienced the same problems,and share the fix .

 

[Apager]

Save up for that new mmx motor ,your probably gonna need shortly. How did you not look at the camshaft ? Learn to use the search function on this site,it will help You to understand your truck better. Most likely someone else has experienced the same problems,and share the fix .

What do you mean how did I not look at the camshaft ? I followed the quote “cam bible” word for word (without the taking off the heads part obviously).

 

[Wild one]

You are 100% correct ..

I am basing my knowledge off of what I see online. I see many guys say that have been fine just replacing the cam on high mileage trucks. But now I’m obviously hearing different. Was just hoping to now get into the nightmare that comes with taking off the heads/doing lifters.

But I’m still worried about it not running right with the new cam. I guess if I have to take everything apart again I might as well do them while I’m in.. again I was just hoping to not have another 2 week project ..

My next question.. can I leave the cam in now when doing lifters/pushrods/rockers?

I'd pull the cam too,and take it to a good mechanic and let him look it over for you,as any scratch or mark on it,from your bad lifter,means you might want to consider replacing it again.Any mark on the cam that you can feel with a finger nail,means you should probably replace it.The teachers at the school of hard knocks can be real b!tches,but odds are you never forget their lessons.The cam has a hardened surface,but it's not very deep,and usually any scratch/nick or mark on it,is enough to go through the surface hardening.

A Look At The Parkerizing Process & History With Howard Cams

Parkerizing is an anti-rusting process that has been used on firearms since World War II. Howard Cams gives us a look at this process they use on camshafts.

www.enginelabs.com

 

[Apager]

I'd pull the cam too,and take it to a good mechanic and let him look it over for you,as any scratch or mark on it,from your bad lifter,means you might want to consider replacing it again.Any mark on the cam that you can feel with a finger nail,means you should probably replace it.The teachers at the school of hard knocks can be real b!tches,but odds are you never forget their lessons.The cam has a hardened surface,but it's not very deep,and usually any scratch/nick or mark on it,is enough to go through the surface hardening.

A Look At The Parkerizing Process & History With Howard Cams

Parkerizing is an anti-rusting process that has been used on firearms since World War II. Howard Cams gives us a look at this process they use on camshafts.

www.enginelabs.com

Already started the second teardown. I'll take the cam back out and inspect and consider bringing it to a mechanic.

I will update as I go along.

Big thank you to everyone for the advice.

 

[Brandon-w]

Already started the second teardown. I'll take the cam back out and inspect and consider bringing it to a mechanic.

I will update as I go along.

Big thank you to everyone for the advice.

I'm almost willing to bet you're gonna need valve work now if the timing was off a tooth. Always hand crank before a startup it's cheap security to ensure no bind up. Good luck man.

 

[Wild one]

I'm almost willing to bet you're gonna need valve work now if the timing was off a tooth. Always hand crank before a startup it's cheap security to ensure no bind up. Good luck man.

Hopefully if he is a tooth off on the timing,it's a tooth ******** and not a tooth advanced.Tooth ******** he should be okay and have no bent valves.But you're right,you should always hand crank it over a few times to make sure nothing is trying to be a kissing cousin. OP once you get the heads off,tip the heads on their sides and pour some water in the ports and look for any leaks/wet spots around the face of the valves,any wetness leaking past the valve face,means a trip to a machine shop to have new valves and a valve job done,or at the very least a new valve,and hand lapping it to the valve seat

 

[ctwalton15]

I just completed mine on my 09 hemi as well. No issues what so ever. I had my heads off and changed out the lifters as well. I highly recommend changing the lifters, My cam lobe was chewed down quite a bit, The lifter was trashed it wasn't seized, at least when I took it off but that doesn't mean it didn't seize at one point in it's life. My engine has 157k miles. Like someone stated above you will probably be replacing that camshaft again down the line very soon. I first got my misfire at 133k miles. I didn't get it changed till 155k, roughly a month ago. In my situation, I bought the Modern Muscle Xtreme cam kit and MDS delete. I had the kit for roughly 6-8 months before I actually had enough time and money to take it apart and take the heads to a machine shop to make sure they are good.

I've read a few places swapping the cam without pulling the heads is very risky, meaning that its pretty easy to drop a lifter in the oil pan when you pull the cam out.

I let my timing chain dangle while doing the work and I didn't use the timing marks to time the engine, Just turned the crank to top dead center and made sure the cam was all at 12 o'clock as well. The reason I did it the way I did was because I was going to pull the oil pump and in turn needed to pull the oil pan, I struggled and wasn't able to get the pan off and said the hell with it and left the old chain and old oil pump on. No issues with them just wanted to change the pump to the 'hellcat' oil pump and a new chain for peace of mind. But like I said, Didn't have luck getting that pan off.

I'm roughly 1.5k miles in since I changed it and truck runs great.

I hate to say it and word it this way but I wouldn't have done this job half assed. Again don't mean it that way just the easiest way to put it. I didn't want to have to replace these parts again down the road that's why I took the extra time and bought the extra parts for example, taking the heads to the machine shop took them roughly 3 weeks to deck them, clean them, and pin the valve seats. I've never messed with a motor like this I have swapped a head on a honda motor and that was pretty easy compared to this hemi, I don't mean either is easier I just mean they are different in their own ways.

I hope it’s something simple and everything goes well.